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Offline jmiliz

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Dough still not right
« on: May 25, 2017, 09:17:44 AM »
Been working on neoploitan dough using Caputo 00 in wood fire oven. 63%hydration, 2.5% salt and 0.2% IDY. Using mixer, then ball and fridge for 2-3 days. Based on reading here, I am using cold water and getting final dough temp at 69deg.  When I make pizzas the dough is very extensible and makes a thin pie. Not much rise in the oven though. It stays thin and slightly gummy. Last 2 batches like this. Is this dough under or over fermented?  What do I try next?

Offline The Dough Doctor

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Re: Dough still not right
« Reply #1 on: May 25, 2017, 09:22:35 AM »
A couple of pictures of your dough balls at the time you are getting ready to open them into skins would help in determining if the dough is over fermented or not. Also, what is your scaling weight for what size pizza?
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

Offline dinks

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Re: Dough still not right
« Reply #2 on: May 28, 2017, 08:12:56 AM »
Been working on neoploitan dough using Caputo 00 in wood fire oven. 63%hydration, 2.5% salt and 0.2% IDY. Using mixer, then ball and fridge for 2-3 days. Based on reading here, I am using cold water and getting final dough temp at 69deg.  When I make pizzas the dough is very extensible and makes a thin pie. Not much rise in the oven though. It stays thin and slightly gummy. Last 2 batches like this. Is this dough under or over fermented?  What do I try next?


  JMILZ:
   Good morning. Sorry to learn of your pizza baking disappointment. I do not know of your recipe as you didn't post it. So, I will use 20, oz of flour as a model. .02% granular yeast is excessive. what happens to dough when this condition occurs is very very little known. I know it thru my studies on BAKING SCIENCE I will state it to you. When an excessive amount of yeast is employed, The GLUTEN strands begin to form then they become POROUS. The gluten cannot retain the weight of the hydration.  The hydration then sinks to the bottom because of it's heavy weight... 8,oz per cup, much heavier than flour at 4,5/8ths oz per cup. Hence why as you described the dough's "GUMMY nature" at the bottom.... it's gluten failed to develop.. it will not rise as you further stated in the oven bake.

JN, you stared your dough finished at 69 degrees. Well that is much better than what others get at about 90 / 95 degrees at times. What is considered optimum is 77 / 80 Degrees. you can get that or close to it by employing 65 / 70 degree water.

 JM, all you need is .625% of your flour weight for the yeast. In this model that is .125, oz 1,1/8th tsp worth & 1,.5 tsp max of table salt.

  You then will have viable pizza dough.

  Good luck to you & enjoy the long weekend my friend.

   ~DINKS   (CASS) 

Offline jmiliz

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Re: Dough still not right
« Reply #3 on: June 05, 2017, 08:23:28 PM »
Made more dough and same problem. Used recipie as above and final dough temp 70F. Dough is very extensible and thin. First photo is finished dough and 2nd is balled. 3rd is after 2 days and next is 3rd day when I used it.

Offline The Dough Doctor

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Re: Dough still not right
« Reply #4 on: June 05, 2017, 08:45:44 PM »
The dough after mixing looks pretty rough, like it needs more mixing time. We normally like to mix the dough until it takes on a smooth, satiny appearance. The dough that I see in the first photograph is very under mixed. The dough balls look pretty good after the CF period (biochemical gluten development) but the last picture of the dough, to me, shows a dough that has not been properly opened into a skin...might that not be your problem?
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Offline vtsteve

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Re: Dough still not right
« Reply #5 on: June 05, 2017, 11:39:27 PM »
I would start by dropping to 58-59% hydration -- it's not a contest! Caputo doughs tend to feel wetter than they are, and it's easier to get gluten development at lower hydrations (within reason, a stiffer dough is easier to develop).
In grams we trust.

Offline StateofMind

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Re: Dough still not right
« Reply #6 on: June 06, 2017, 01:38:46 AM »
Just to throw my 2 cents in, I also think it is a combination of under mixing the dough initially as well as uneven opening of the dough ball. Here's a picture of a finished dough of mine that I thought even may have been a little under-mixed.
And maybe not the best example of opening a dough ball but you can see in the picture that the dough looks relatively even throughout the skin.

Offline jmiliz

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Re: Dough still not right
« Reply #7 on: June 06, 2017, 10:56:17 AM »
Thanks everyone. I will try the suggestions and work on my dough opening. It just seems so thin and extensible.  I expected a little more elasticity fromwatching videos of opening the dough.

Offline The Dough Doctor

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Re: Dough still not right
« Reply #8 on: June 06, 2017, 02:42:44 PM »
J;
Just for smiles and grins, try this method for opening the skin.
Use a rolling pin to carefully open the dough ball to about 2-inches less than the desired finished skin diameter, then bench stretch the skin to near full diameter, be sure to pick up the edge of the skin and using your fingers finish opening the skin by stretching only the edge of the pizza. Your photograph shows a skin that was only opened from the center, not from the edge too. There have been some very good videos posted recently showing this procedure using a dough ball that is opened fully by hand, but in this specific case use the rolling pin, making several light passes rather than trying to roll the dough out in a single pass, this will help you keep the entire skin more uniform in thickness, then once you master that, you cas easily progress to opening the dough ball fully by hand.
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