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Author Topic: Johnny's in Mount Vernon.  (Read 18202 times)

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Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Johnny's in Mount Vernon.
« Reply #60 on: March 08, 2014, 01:01:19 PM »
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Offline Johnny the Gent

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Re: Johnny's in Mount Vernon.
« Reply #61 on: March 09, 2014, 07:16:45 AM »
pdog, what is the formula you used for your latest effort?

Like it's been said - that 2nd pie looks very good!
Il miglior fabbro

Offline pdog

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Re: Johnny's in Mount Vernon.
« Reply #62 on: March 10, 2014, 08:14:14 AM »
Thank you everyone.  The pizza was very good this weekend.

Here is the exact weights for this dough;

Flour 977 Grams
Water 571 grams

Preferment 18 grams

Sugar 33 Grams
Oil 21 Grams
Salt 18 grams

Process:

Pour water into mixing bowl. 
Whisk in Sugar, oil, and preferment.

Mix salt into flour.

Add 1/2 of the flour salt mix into the water solution.  Mix with kitchen aide "c" hook for 4 minutes on 1.

Add 1/2 of the remaining flour salt mix in the kithcen aide.  Mix on 1 for 4 minutes

Add the remaining flour salt mix, and mix on 1 for an additional 4 minutes.

Dump out onto the counter, and complete 2 stretch and folds.  Let the dough rest in a covered bowl for 20 minutes, and then repeat the stretch and folds.

Cover, and let rise 18 hours.  Ball, and let rise another 6-7 hours until fermented.  I no longer take the dough as far I as used to in the past.  I believe I was over-fermenting my dough frequently.  Since I have begun the new fermentation process the dough strength has increased ten fold.

The preferment aspect makes this dough more of a neo - ny dough then a street pizza.

If you do not use a preferment:

Flour - High gluten (12.9% or higher) and bromated.

Flour (100%):          977.55 g  |  34.48 oz | 2.16 lbs
Water (59%):          576.75 g  |  20.34 oz | 1.27 lbs
ADY (0.25%):           2.44 g | 0.09 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.65 tsp | 0.22 tbsp
Salt (1.75%):          17.11 g | 0.6 oz | 0.04 lbs | 3.56 tsp | 1.19 tbsp
Oil (2.05%):            20.04 g | 0.71 oz | 0.04 lbs | 4.45 tsp | 1.48 tbsp
Sugar (2.76%):       26.98 g | 0.95 oz | 0.06 lbs | 6.77 tsp | 2.26 tbsp
Total (165.81%):    1620.87 g | 57.17 oz | 3.57 lbs | TF = 0.07575
Single Ball:             405.22 g | 14.29 oz | 0.89 lbs

Process:

Mix ADY into water in kitchen aide mixer.
Add Sugar and oil into yeast mixtures.  Let stand 5 minutes.

Mix Flour and salt.

Pour 1/2 of flour salt mix into the mixer. 

Mix on 1 for 3 minutes. 

Add 1/2 of remaining flour mixture.  Mix for 2 minutes.

Add remaining flour, and mix for 2 minutes.

Ball and move to oiled containers.  Place balls in fridge for 2-3 days depending on your fridge temp. 

If you do not have high gluten bromated flour simple increase the knead time of the dough back to the original kneading process, and allow to cold rise for 2-3 days. 


« Last Edit: March 11, 2014, 08:29:46 PM by pdog »

Offline pdog

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Re: Johnny's in Mount Vernon.
« Reply #63 on: March 10, 2014, 08:20:49 AM »
Looks good. Maybe a little more on the Neapolitan side though. What kind of steel is that?

I agree... especially with the preferment process.

I used the steel Scott123 recommends.  A36 hot rolled steel 1/2 inch.  I soaked the steel in vinegar for 24 hours, and cleaned with steel wool.  I seasoned the steel slightly, and have just let is sit in the oven since.  Very heavy!  I would suggest getting the steel cut in half.

Offline Johnny the Gent

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Re: Johnny's in Mount Vernon.
« Reply #64 on: March 11, 2014, 12:39:32 PM »
Thank you everyone.  The pizza was very good this weekend.

Here is the exact weights for this dough;

Flour 977 Grams
Water 571 grams

Preferment 18 grams

Sugar 33 Grams
Oil 21 Grams
Salt 18 grams

Process:

Pour water into mixing bowl. 
Whisk in Sugar, oil, and preferment.

Mix salt into flour.

Add 1/2 of the flour salt mix into the water solution.  Mix with kitchen aide "c" hook for 4 minutes on 1.

Add 1/2 of the remaining flour salt mix in the kithcen aide.  Mix on 1 for 4 minutes

Add the remaining flour salt mix, and mix on 1 for an additional 4 minutes.

Dump out onto the counter, and complete 2 stretch and folds.  Let the dough rest in a covered bowl for 20 minutes, and then repeat the stretch and folds.

Cover, and let rise 18 hours.  Ball, and let rise another 6-7 hours until fermented.  I no longer take the dough as far I as used to in the past.  I believe I was over-fermenting my dough frequently.  Since I have begun the new fermentation process the dough strength has increased ten fold.

The preferment aspect makes this dough more of a ny elite dough then a street pizza.

If you do not use a preferment:

Flour - High gluten (12.9% or higher) and bromated.

Flour (100%):          977.55 g  |  34.48 oz | 2.16 lbs
Water (59%):          576.75 g  |  20.34 oz | 1.27 lbs
ADY (0.25%):           2.44 g | 0.09 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.65 tsp | 0.22 tbsp
Salt (1.75%):          17.11 g | 0.6 oz | 0.04 lbs | 3.56 tsp | 1.19 tbsp
Oil (2.05%):            20.04 g | 0.71 oz | 0.04 lbs | 4.45 tsp | 1.48 tbsp
Sugar (2.76%):       26.98 g | 0.95 oz | 0.06 lbs | 6.77 tsp | 2.26 tbsp
Total (165.81%):    1620.87 g | 57.17 oz | 3.57 lbs | TF = 0.07575
Single Ball:             405.22 g | 14.29 oz | 0.89 lbs

Process:

Mix ADY into water in kitchen aide mixer.
Add Sugar and oil into yeast mixtures.  Let stand 5 minutes.

Mix Flour and salt.

Pour 1/2 of flour salt mix into the mixer. 

Mix on 1 for 3 minutes. 

Add 1/2 of remaining flour mixture.  Mix for 2 minutes.

Add remaining flour, and mix for 2 minutes.

Ball and move to oiled containers.  Place balls in fridge for 2-3 days depending on your fridge temp. 

If you do not have high gluten bromated flour simple increase the knead time of the dough back to the original kneading process, and allow to cold rise for 2-3 days.

Thanks for sharing your formula, pdog!

I should mention that I used a formula very similar to yours for some of my JerryMac inspired pies. Sugar, salt and yeast %'s pretty much spot on - the major changes being I usually use 10-12% protein flour (AP) and higher hydration (66-68%ish).
Il miglior fabbro

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Offline pdog

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Re: Johnny's in Mount Vernon.
« Reply #65 on: March 19, 2014, 06:24:58 PM »
Hi....... So I was able to get to Johnny's last week.

Overall, I did not get very much if any information  :(

They are good at their secrets...... They even have removed all labels from all the #10 cans I was able to see. 

Here are the details I was able to gather.

Sauce:

Very Very thin.  The consistency was that of tomato sauce.  In fact the sauce had a hint of tomato soup taste to it.

They used 12 large table spoons of sauce for a small pie.

Process:

I only observed them using a sliced cheese and a small amount of grated cheese. 

The sliced cheese was placed on the stretched dough, then the sauce was spooned onto the pie.  They then apply small amounts of pepper and grated cheese with a little swirl of olive oil; off into the oven goes the pizza. 

Dough:

The dough looked very fermented, and I was able observe the dough within the boxes.  The dough was slightly flattened out, and had 2-3 large gas bubbles within the dough balls.

The dough was then rolled our with a rolling pin, and then hand stretched over the knuckles to a final shape. 

The pizza was cooked a long time.  We got the pies to go.  When I walked into the restaurant my pies were already in the oven.  They baked the pies for 7 minutes while I was waiting for the pies to finish.  No screen was used this time, and the gentleman making the pies seemed frustrated with the speed at which the pies were baking.  He keep looking at the bottom of the pies, and making faces as I watched him.

Finish product.

The pie was heavily sauced with a light amount of cheese. The bottom was a medium brown color had a nice, but simple char on the bottom.  No oven spring was present to speak of in both pies.  The center of the pizza was 3 Millimeters - 4 Millimeters thick depending on the measuring point.  The crumb was only 1 centimeter thick.(measurements taken it calibers)

Overall, still a great pizza. 

Here are the main differences I noticed between my dough and Johnny's. 

Oven spring is very different between my pies and Johnny's. 

Sauce - this is the biggest difference.  Mine is nothing like there's.  I am going to try to re-make the sauce this weekend.  Believe it or not I believe I am going to start the process with a tomato sauce and olive oil only. 


Pic's to follow:

Offline pdog

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Re: Johnny's in Mount Vernon.
« Reply #66 on: March 19, 2014, 06:27:44 PM »
Small Pepperoni and Sausage:


Offline pdog

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Re: Johnny's in Mount Vernon.
« Reply #67 on: March 19, 2014, 06:28:53 PM »
Large Cheese pizza:


Offline pdog

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Re: Johnny's in Mount Vernon.
« Reply #68 on: March 24, 2014, 08:28:10 PM »
So yesterday a got a last minute craving for some pizza. 

Decided I would try my hand at a an emergency same day dough using preferment and poolish style flavorings. 

Here is what I tried _ Note this really was not an effort to get to a Johnny's pie, but I figured I would post anyway. 

6 hour dough 3-23-2013

Preferment 80% hydration 215 Grams

Poolish

Flour 205 Grams
Water  - 240 Grams
ADY 1 tsp

Flour Mix for Final dough:

Flour 440 Grams
Salt 14 Grams
Sugar 26 grams
ADY tsp
Water 1 Tbsp

Oil:

19 grams (added after flour has been kneaded.)

Process:

Feed preferment  - Proof the preferment at 90 degrees (2 hours)

Make the poolish.  Use 110 degree water, and add the tsp of ADY. Mix 205 grams of flour into the poolish. Let rise until poolish has become fully proofed.

Pour poolish and preferment into a kitchen aide mix, and mix on low for 4 minutes The two ferments will turn into almost a liquid.  Add tsp of ADY to 1 tbsp of water.  (110 degrees) Add yeast and water to mixture.

Mix the sugar, and salt into the 440 grams of flour. 

Add 220 grams of the flour mixture into the dough.  Mix on 1 for 8 minutes. 

Add remaining flour into the dough, and mix until smooth and staining. 

Let rest 20 minutes.  Dough should window pane at this time. 

Bulk ferment for 2 hours.  Complete 2 stretch and folds during this bulk ferment.

Ball (385 grams for 15.5 inch pizza) and let rise until double in size.  1-2 hours.


Offline pdog

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Re: Johnny's in Mount Vernon.
« Reply #69 on: March 24, 2014, 08:46:16 PM »
Here are the results:

Overall not bad for a same day rush dough.  Not as good as a long ferment, but I would wager better then any pizza I have had locally. 

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Offline CIZ28

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Re: Johnny's in Mount Vernon.
« Reply #70 on: March 30, 2014, 08:08:00 AM »
pdog,

Looks like you saw the same process that I did and around the same bake time. No screens too. Were they busy? I'll add that I saw oregano added. I don't think the sauce tasted like tomato soup but more like very thinned out and very crushed quality tomatoes.

Your last pizza there looks more like a Patsy's pie than Johnny's. A good attempt though.
"If it's not well done, it ain't done well."

Offline pdog

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Re: Johnny's in Mount Vernon.
« Reply #71 on: April 29, 2014, 07:14:59 PM »
pdog,

Looks like you saw the same process that I did and around the same bake time. No screens too. Were they busy? I'll add that I saw oregano added. I don't think the sauce tasted like tomato soup but more like very thinned out and very crushed quality tomatoes.

Your last pizza there looks more like a Patsy's pie than Johnny's. A good attempt though.

Hi - Sorry for the delay - Been getting the deck ready for summer!

They were not that busy.  Only 3-4 groups in the restaurant. 

I have been adding oregano, and black pepper to the pies, and have been liking the results. 

I worry my experiments have drifted away from a Johnny's clone, and more into a new version/combination of my own style of blends. 

Offline pdog

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Re: Johnny's in Mount Vernon.
« Reply #72 on: April 29, 2014, 07:27:21 PM »
Here was my formulation for some pies I made on 4-16

Formula:

Pre-Ferment 17 grams fully active proofed at 80 degrees
Water 530 grams
Oil 25 grams

Dry:

Sugar 22 grams
Salt 21 grams
Flour (bromated)- 890 grams
Mix 5 minutes low ingredients

Sauce 1 # 10 can alta cuciane 17 grams cento Italian mix, and 17 grams of sugar.
Stick blend until smooth.

Dough ball - 375 - 16 inch pie.



Offline pdog

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Re: Johnny's in Mount Vernon.
« Reply #73 on: May 07, 2014, 03:24:40 PM »
Latest effort - cold ferment 5 days.  The dough was tough to work with while stretching.  The dough wanted to run all over the place, and even when launched the dough was not strong enough to hold its shape. 

Here is the recipe and the pics. 

Yeast tsp mixed into tbsp of 100 degree water 5 minutes

Water 726 grams
Oil 34 Grams
Sugers -28 grams
Salt 24 grams
Flour 1214 grams

Mix flour until incorporated
   -1/4 until incorporated
   -rest of flour added and mixed until almost smooth (3-4 minutes)

Offline pythonic

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Re: Johnny's in Mount Vernon.
« Reply #74 on: May 07, 2014, 10:08:09 PM »
Giggity.  I love that char you got going there.  I'd hit that if I found it lying on the street.

Nate
If you can dodge a wrench you can dodge a ball.

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Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Johnny's in Mount Vernon.
« Reply #75 on: May 08, 2014, 11:17:39 AM »
 ^^^  Me too....even if it had a couple bites out of it already.  ;D

CB
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Offline Johnny the Gent

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Re: Johnny's in Mount Vernon.
« Reply #76 on: May 09, 2014, 05:07:04 PM »
Them pies look real good!
Il miglior fabbro

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