They could possibly be using something called hard fats. Tom Lehman said this will cause the same layering effect. Would the hard fats show up under soybean oil though? All I know is the crust has many dry layers and I have not been able to produce it using straight oil. That is why I really think there is some folding going on when it's made. Who said FL was making their own dough?
I believe that you are referring to Tom Lehmann's post on the use of hard fat flakes (sometimes called flake oil) in the preparation of pizza doughs at Reply 28 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,29524.msg298324.html#msg298324
I will begin my response by saying that I have looked at the labels of hundreds of margarine and margarine-like products and recipes and formulations using such products, and I am very confident based on the ingredients list that you provided earlier in this thread that Giordano's is using either margarine or a margarine-like product. Moreover, in the material I quoted from the earlier mentioned Muslim website, Giordano's said the following: The margarine used in all ingredients as well as to coat our pizza pans is also a certified koshered margarine.
To add to this, elsewhere on the forum, and also in Giordano's videos, what was put in the pans was clearly a soft margarine or margarine-like product (and maybe even butter in some Giordano's stores). See, for example, the first photo in Reply 11 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,8361.msg85140.html#msg85140
. That photo happened to have been taken at the Giordano's store in Tampa, Florida which, according to the most recent Giordano's store locator at http://giordanos.com/our-locations/
, apparently no longer exists or is no longer a Giordano's franchisee.
However, to be on the safe side with my conclusion as I believe is supported by the above facts, I decided to do some online research on fat flakes. I found a handful of suppliers of such products. I also found references to the use of fat flakes for pizza dough production. Examples include the fat flakes produced by Bunge (https://www.bungenorthamerica.com/products/categories/53-flaked-shortenings
) that Norma mentioned in her last post, but also fat flakes produced by Cargill (http://www.cargillfoods.com/na/en/products/oils-shortenings/Products/flakes/index.jsp
). There were also a few much smaller sources of fat flakes but none of the sites I visited provided information on the composition of their fat flake products. However, by expanding my search, I was able to find an isolated spec for a Cargill partially hydrogenated soybean fat flake product at http://www.sfm.state.or.us/CR2K_SubDB/MSDS/PHSBO_SOYBEAN_OIL_FLAKES.PDF
. That product, which appears in the product listing in the Cargill link referenced above, contains only partially hydrogenated soybean oil, which is one of the ingredients of the Giordano's margarine product, and citric acid. There is no listing of liquid soybean oil, emulsifiers (such as the diglycerides), water, salt, lecithin, flavors or color agents. What this tells me is that if Giordano's is using a fat flake product, their ingredients list would reflect that.
As for the Giordano's Florida locations and whether they make their own dough, I do not have personal knowledge of where they get their dough. However, as noted in the Giordano's locator list referenced above, there are currently only three Giordano's stores in Florida. In my opinion, that is too small a number of stores to justify a commissary. The rest of the Giordano's stores--41 in number--are all in the Chicago area. With that number of stores, a commissary business model makes great sense. The question of where the Giordano's Florida stores get their dough is not a new one. In a post that I entered elsewhere in one of the other Giordano's threads, I touched upon this matter by suggesting that the Florida stores might have been making their own dough or it was being sources by an external, local source. This is quite common for stores of chains that are too far out from their commissary location. For example, Papa Gino's in the northeast has its remote stores make the dough in the stores. All the others get their dough from the PG commissary.
I did find a photo of dough balls in the Tampa Giordano's store at Reply 13 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,8361.msg85143.html#msg85143
(second photo down). I have no idea as to how those dough balls got there. All I can tell you, is that in Reply 123 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,5674.msg72241/topicseen.html#msg72241
member BTB speculated that there was an area of the kitchen at the Tampa location where the dough was possibly made. I would think that a simple telephone call to one of the current Florida locations would answer the question as to where the dough is made.
As an aside, and maybe a helpful one, when I was researching the above sourcing issue in relation to the Florida Giordano's stores, I came across an article that listed some of the creditors of Giordano's that were filing claims in the Giordano's bankruptcy suit. That article contained the following:According to the filing, major unsecured creditors include Saputo Cheese USA, with a claim of $426,678; Bartlett-based Greco & Sons Inc., with a claim of $213,694; Giordano's Advertising Fund, with a claim of $150,777; Heinz North America, with a claim of $131,801; and Tardella Foods Inc., with a claim of $29,963
. (Source: http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2011-02-18/business/ct-biz-0218-giordanos-bankruptcy-20110218_1_bankruptcy-filing-pizza-uno-chicago-grill
What is noteworthy in the above quote is that Saputo is a major supplier of mozzarella cheeses and that Heinz is the parent company of Escalon--the source of 6-in-1 and like tomato products. Tardella Foods (http://tardellafoods.com/Home_Page.html
) is a foodservice company, some of whose "partners" are flour millers (http://tardellafoods.com/Our_Partners.html
). Greco and Sons (http://www.grecoandsons.com/
) is a foodservice supplier of cheeses and meats (including sausage), among other items. I do not know whether Giordano's is still using these suppliers coming out of the bankruptcy proceedings. However, is common for companies coming out of bankruptcy to go stay with their existing suppliers. Otherwise, their products will be different and be noticed by customers.