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Author Topic: Tonight's Lou. Butter flavored crisco in the pan is night and day vs oil  (Read 106958 times)

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Offline Chicago Bob

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Congrats, pythonic!

And thanks, Peter!
                              ^^^     Nate is an excellent pizza maker!   :chef:
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Offline nickyr

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This deep style is something I have never tried, is it like a Grimaldi pie? Never been there, but I think they make deep dish.
It looks good.  :drool:
I think I will try it next time. Pizza making has slowed to a crawl here...so I guess a little reading is in order to try and get the gist of it all before I attempt it in a week or so.
No, Grimaldiís isnít deep dish. You could be thinking of Giordanoís maybe?

Sounds good, Iím sure youíll enjoy it!

Offline Nuke83

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Re: Tonight's Lou. Butter flavored crisco in the pan is night and day vs oil
« Reply #442 on: September 05, 2020, 12:51:11 PM »
OK, Looking for a sanity check here on converting from 9" to 12".  PLEASE don't refer me to the conversion tool.  Between TF, radius, distance up the sides, etc., etc., I think I stand a better chance of finding a cure for COVID before I could run the converter (which should tell you that I won't be curing COVID).

Anyway, what I'm really asking for is just some level of validation that what seems wrong to me is actually correct.

I've had great success getting to a blend of dry ingredients and oils for the 9" pan that I'm very pleased with.  At a high level, my AP/Rice/Semolina blend totals 185 grams.  My hydration (water/corn oil/EVOO) totals 128 grams, so right around that 69% hydration level.  The remaining items (cream or tartar, IDY, salt, sugar) are in the fractional tsp levels.

In reviewing Pete's, pythonics, et al, posts (going back to around reply #107), and more recent posts, I'm seeing that 12" pies vary between 300-315 grams of flour blend with 205-211 grams of hydration.  Still around that 68-69% hydration level.

What throws me is that the dough ball total weight is going from around 300 grams for 9" to just over 500 grams for 12".  I get that we're using geometry, which was my least favorite of math subjects, but if I consider that 9" to 12" is effectively a 33% increase in total, and 33% of 300 is about 100, my head is trying to reason the difference of what I would expect to be about a 400 gram dough ball actually being in the 510-515 gram range.

Please just confirm that my simplistic expectations are wrong, and that if I build that 500ish gram dough ball for my 12" pie, I'll see similar crust results as my 300ish dough ball in my 9" pan.

 ???

Offline nickyr

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Re: Tonight's Lou. Butter flavored crisco in the pan is night and day vs oil
« Reply #443 on: September 05, 2020, 01:27:29 PM »
You need to increase the total surface area of the dough, so you need to calculate your percent increase in terms of surface area.

Area of a circle is pi X radius X radius.

So for a 9 inch pan: 3.14 X 4.5 X 4.5 = 63.6

For a 12 inch pan: 3.14 X 6 X 6 = 113

300 grams X 113 / 63.6 = 533 grams. There you go!

To be even more accurate for a deep dish pizza, increase the radius in the above calculations by the height of your pan since you need dough to go up the sides.

Offline nickyr

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Re: Tonight's Lou. Butter flavored crisco in the pan is night and day vs oil
« Reply #444 on: September 05, 2020, 01:30:41 PM »
A more intuitive way to think about the problem with your initial logic: you need to increase the size of the dough in all directions, not just along a single diameter

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Offline Nuke83

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Re: Tonight's Lou. Butter flavored crisco in the pan is night and day vs oil
« Reply #445 on: September 05, 2020, 03:14:41 PM »
You need to increase the total surface area of the dough, so you need to calculate your percent increase in terms of surface area.

Area of a circle is pi X radius X radius.

So for a 9 inch pan: 3.14 X 4.5 X 4.5 = 63.6

For a 12 inch pan: 3.14 X 6 X 6 = 113

300 grams X 113 / 63.6 = 533 grams. There you go!

To be even more accurate for a deep dish pizza, increase the radius in the above calculations by the height of your pan since you need dough to go up the sides.

Perfect, thank you!  This is what I needed to see to validate what I believe to be true, but simply didn't make logical sense to me.  I much more a Calculus/Trig guy.  Absolutely despised geometry.

Offline Nuke83

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Re: Tonight's Lou. Butter flavored crisco in the pan is night and day vs oil
« Reply #446 on: September 05, 2020, 03:18:08 PM »
A more intuitive way to think about the problem with your initial logic: you need to increase the size of the dough in all directions, not just along a single diameter

Yep, I understand the concept and realize the sides increase dough need at an increasing rate.  I also get that it's not linear, even discounting the sides, and that a "33%" increase in pan measurement wouldn't extrapolate out to an equal 33% in volume of dough due to the increasing area of a circle, but the increase from 300ish to 500ish seemed extreme, so I just needed some validation that I could wrap my brain around.

Thanks.

Offline Garvey

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Re: Tonight's Lou. Butter flavored crisco in the pan is night and day vs oil
« Reply #447 on: September 07, 2020, 12:13:21 PM »
To help wrap your head around this, a great example is that a 14" pizza is twice the size of a 10" pizza.

It's not 40% bigger but 100% bigger.  That childhood doozy, "area equals pi times r-squared" is coming back to bite ya!  When you square the radius, the numbers are literally exponential.

The radius of a 10" pizza is 5".  Area = Pi x 5" x 5" = 25pi
The radius of a 14" pizza is 7".  Area = Pi x 5" x 5" = 49pi
(Didn't bother to solve for pi since it cancels out)

Heck--forget circles and pretend you're working with square pizzas, if that helps paint a mental picture.  A 14x14 square is roughly twice the size of a 10x10 square.  No greek letters or r-squares to contend with.
 




« Last Edit: September 07, 2020, 12:15:49 PM by Garvey »

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