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Author Topic: Tonight's Lou. Butter flavored crisco in the pan is night and day vs oil  (Read 110211 times)

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Offline Chicago Bob

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Congrats, pythonic!

And thanks, Peter!
                              ^^^     Nate is an excellent pizza maker!   :chef:
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Offline nickyr

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This deep style is something I have never tried, is it like a Grimaldi pie? Never been there, but I think they make deep dish.
It looks good.  :drool:
I think I will try it next time. Pizza making has slowed to a crawl here...so I guess a little reading is in order to try and get the gist of it all before I attempt it in a week or so.
No, Grimaldiís isnít deep dish. You could be thinking of Giordanoís maybe?

Sounds good, Iím sure youíll enjoy it!

Offline Nuke83

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Re: Tonight's Lou. Butter flavored crisco in the pan is night and day vs oil
« Reply #442 on: September 05, 2020, 12:51:11 PM »
OK, Looking for a sanity check here on converting from 9" to 12".  PLEASE don't refer me to the conversion tool.  Between TF, radius, distance up the sides, etc., etc., I think I stand a better chance of finding a cure for COVID before I could run the converter (which should tell you that I won't be curing COVID).

Anyway, what I'm really asking for is just some level of validation that what seems wrong to me is actually correct.

I've had great success getting to a blend of dry ingredients and oils for the 9" pan that I'm very pleased with.  At a high level, my AP/Rice/Semolina blend totals 185 grams.  My hydration (water/corn oil/EVOO) totals 128 grams, so right around that 69% hydration level.  The remaining items (cream or tartar, IDY, salt, sugar) are in the fractional tsp levels.

In reviewing Pete's, pythonics, et al, posts (going back to around reply #107), and more recent posts, I'm seeing that 12" pies vary between 300-315 grams of flour blend with 205-211 grams of hydration.  Still around that 68-69% hydration level.

What throws me is that the dough ball total weight is going from around 300 grams for 9" to just over 500 grams for 12".  I get that we're using geometry, which was my least favorite of math subjects, but if I consider that 9" to 12" is effectively a 33% increase in total, and 33% of 300 is about 100, my head is trying to reason the difference of what I would expect to be about a 400 gram dough ball actually being in the 510-515 gram range.

Please just confirm that my simplistic expectations are wrong, and that if I build that 500ish gram dough ball for my 12" pie, I'll see similar crust results as my 300ish dough ball in my 9" pan.

 ???

Offline nickyr

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Re: Tonight's Lou. Butter flavored crisco in the pan is night and day vs oil
« Reply #443 on: September 05, 2020, 01:27:29 PM »
You need to increase the total surface area of the dough, so you need to calculate your percent increase in terms of surface area.

Area of a circle is pi X radius X radius.

So for a 9 inch pan: 3.14 X 4.5 X 4.5 = 63.6

For a 12 inch pan: 3.14 X 6 X 6 = 113

300 grams X 113 / 63.6 = 533 grams. There you go!

To be even more accurate for a deep dish pizza, increase the radius in the above calculations by the height of your pan since you need dough to go up the sides.

Offline nickyr

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Re: Tonight's Lou. Butter flavored crisco in the pan is night and day vs oil
« Reply #444 on: September 05, 2020, 01:30:41 PM »
A more intuitive way to think about the problem with your initial logic: you need to increase the size of the dough in all directions, not just along a single diameter

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Offline Nuke83

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Re: Tonight's Lou. Butter flavored crisco in the pan is night and day vs oil
« Reply #445 on: September 05, 2020, 03:14:41 PM »
You need to increase the total surface area of the dough, so you need to calculate your percent increase in terms of surface area.

Area of a circle is pi X radius X radius.

So for a 9 inch pan: 3.14 X 4.5 X 4.5 = 63.6

For a 12 inch pan: 3.14 X 6 X 6 = 113

300 grams X 113 / 63.6 = 533 grams. There you go!

To be even more accurate for a deep dish pizza, increase the radius in the above calculations by the height of your pan since you need dough to go up the sides.

Perfect, thank you!  This is what I needed to see to validate what I believe to be true, but simply didn't make logical sense to me.  I much more a Calculus/Trig guy.  Absolutely despised geometry.

Offline Nuke83

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Re: Tonight's Lou. Butter flavored crisco in the pan is night and day vs oil
« Reply #446 on: September 05, 2020, 03:18:08 PM »
A more intuitive way to think about the problem with your initial logic: you need to increase the size of the dough in all directions, not just along a single diameter

Yep, I understand the concept and realize the sides increase dough need at an increasing rate.  I also get that it's not linear, even discounting the sides, and that a "33%" increase in pan measurement wouldn't extrapolate out to an equal 33% in volume of dough due to the increasing area of a circle, but the increase from 300ish to 500ish seemed extreme, so I just needed some validation that I could wrap my brain around.

Thanks.

Offline Garvey

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Re: Tonight's Lou. Butter flavored crisco in the pan is night and day vs oil
« Reply #447 on: September 07, 2020, 12:13:21 PM »
To help wrap your head around this, a great example is that a 14" pizza is twice the size of a 10" pizza.

It's not 40% bigger but 100% bigger.  That childhood doozy, "area equals pi times r-squared" is coming back to bite ya!  When you square the radius, the numbers are literally exponential.

The radius of a 10" pizza is 5".  Area = Pi x 5" x 5" = 25pi
The radius of a 14" pizza is 7".  Area = Pi x 5" x 5" = 49pi
(Didn't bother to solve for pi since it cancels out)

Heck--forget circles and pretend you're working with square pizzas, if that helps paint a mental picture.  A 14x14 square is roughly twice the size of a 10x10 square.  No greek letters or r-squares to contend with.
 




« Last Edit: September 07, 2020, 12:15:49 PM by Garvey »

Offline vwbugster1

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Re: Tonight's Lou. Butter flavored crisco in the pan is night and day vs oil
« Reply #448 on: October 11, 2020, 08:37:49 PM »
I used Pythonic's Malnati recipe. Turned out great! Almost had a beer flavor to it. Flaky biscuit like. 2.5 hours in low heat oven to rise. Then let it sit on counter for 3 hours. I had to have my cup and char pepps on top. My fav.

Offline damp1house

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Re: Tonight's Lou. Butter flavored crisco in the pan is night and day vs oil
« Reply #449 on: October 24, 2020, 01:59:11 PM »
Looks great!

Is the beer flavor due to the fermentation? 


I used Pythonic's Malnati recipe. Turned out great! Almost had a beer flavor to it. Flaky biscuit like. 2.5 hours in low heat oven to rise. Then let it sit on counter for 3 hours. I had to have my cup and char pepps on top. My fav.

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Offline vwbugster1

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Re: Tonight's Lou. Butter flavored crisco in the pan is night and day vs oil
« Reply #450 on: October 24, 2020, 02:57:18 PM »
Thank you!!!  I think it was just leaving out on the counter and letting it sit. I also like to add pizza dough flavoring from King Arthur Flour. Its amazing.

Offline damp1house

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Re: Tonight's Lou. Butter flavored crisco in the pan is night and day vs oil
« Reply #451 on: October 26, 2020, 10:47:43 PM »
Never heard of the flavoring.  I will check it out, thanks!!

Offline Stryda

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Re: Tonight's Lou. Butter flavored crisco in the pan is night and day vs oil
« Reply #452 on: November 19, 2020, 01:43:03 PM »
Forgive my lack of trust please...
I've never used raw meat on a pizza  :-D, fear of not cooking it enough that it's safe to eat, or cremating it to the point it isn't enjoyable.
With this pizza, and a layer of raw sausage in between cheese and sauce, how are you checking the meat is cooked?   ???
I have a IR gun, but throw in the emissivity setting and I have no idea how accurate it is. I also have a meat thermometer, which only seems to work on big chunks of meat  :-D
Or am I overthinking, and this pizza is worth possible food poisoning?  ;D
Any guidance, please?

Offline vwbugster1

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Re: Tonight's Lou. Butter flavored crisco in the pan is night and day vs oil
« Reply #453 on: November 19, 2020, 05:13:45 PM »
The raw sausage i put on top of the cheese layer is always cooked for me.

Offline Garvey

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Re: Tonight's Lou. Butter flavored crisco in the pan is night and day vs oil
« Reply #454 on: November 19, 2020, 10:47:17 PM »
Youíre baking a 10,000-lb casserole in an iron smelting oven for 40 minutes. 

The tiny little chunks of meat inside will be plenty done.

Ditch the IR gun and get an instant read thermometer.  Pork is done at 138 deg F.

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Offline Stryda

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Re: Tonight's Lou. Butter flavored crisco in the pan is night and day vs oil
« Reply #455 on: November 20, 2020, 07:14:35 AM »
Thanks, instant read thermometer ordered!
Now onto a pan....
Struggling to find a decent pan in the UK, any thoughts on either of these?
https://smile.amazon.co.uk/dp/B009WP3OTI/?tag=pmak-20
or
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B009DFZOMW/?tag=pmak-20

Offline emalesean

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Re: Tonight's Lou. Butter flavored crisco in the pan is night and day vs oil
« Reply #456 on: November 24, 2020, 09:12:22 AM »
Is it necessary to cook the pizza sauce in sauce pan with extra ingredients? I see lots of information on this site about making the dough and assembly but not much discussion on how to prepare the sauce. I live in New York whats a good can to start with thatís easy to get by me?

Offline Garvey

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Re: Tonight's Lou. Butter flavored crisco in the pan is night and day vs oil
« Reply #457 on: November 24, 2020, 10:27:46 AM »
Is it necessary to cook the pizza sauce in sauce pan with extra ingredients? I see lots of information on this site about making the dough and assembly but not much discussion on how to prepare the sauce. I live in New York whats a good can to start with thatís easy to get by me?

For deep dish?  Don't cook the sauce.  It will bake plenty while on top of your casserole pizza for 30 mins or so in the oven.  Just get a decent can of crushed tomatoes from the grocery store and pour it into a mesh strainer to drain out some of the liquid.  Add salt to taste, if needed, and a little basil.  You want it to be simple and tomatoey.  Or you can get a can of whole tomatoes and crush them up with your hands and put the chunks on top.

Rookie mistake to avoid: don't put too much sauce on the pizza.  Look at pictures online as a guide. 

HTH!  Cheers!

Offline Stryda

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Re: Tonight's Lou. Butter flavored crisco in the pan is night and day vs oil
« Reply #458 on: November 25, 2020, 10:07:54 AM »
Ok, I had a go at this the other night. Don't think I got it right, the base texture was more like short crust pastry. As I think you can see from the pictures. I'm in the UK, so have never tried the real thing. Any suggestions on if it's right or way off?

Offline vwbugster1

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Re: Tonight's Lou. Butter flavored crisco in the pan is night and day vs oil
« Reply #459 on: November 25, 2020, 10:16:24 AM »
I think it looks great. Most people like it to be biscuit and flaky like. I do anyway. So You are not off like you think you are. I would spread the sausage all over the layer, that way there is sausage in every bite. Great execution! Bravo!

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