Author Topic: Big Dave's Old Faithful  (Read 34967 times)

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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Big Dave's Old Faithful
« Reply #60 on: May 01, 2009, 08:41:40 PM »

I'm glad to hear that things turned out so well for you. I would have loved to see some photos.

There is nothing wrong with using the King Arthur flour. That is the flour that I would use these days. I like using vital wheat gluten, for both technical and taste reasons, but it really isn't necessary. the KABF is a very good flour on its own.

I looked at the New Faithful recipes at Reply 25 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,660.msg9749.html#msg9749 to see how you were able to make and use the dough so quickly. I am now certain that it was a combination of a lot of yeast (1% IDY) and your use of warm water. If you decide to make a cold fermented version of the recipe, I suggest that you use only a small amount of the formula water (about 4-5 times the weight of the yeast) to rehydrate the ADY (your substitute for the IDY) and leave the rest of the water on the cool or cold side. Otherwise, the dough will rise too fast and too much, even in the refrigerator, until the refrigerator cools the dough down enough to slow down the fermentation process.

For your additional information, when I make pizza dough following a dough formulation, I weigh only the flour and water. I use volume measurements for the rest of the ingredients. I also suggest that you not re-knead, re-shape or re-ball the dough after you have divided it into two pieces. That will only mess up the gluten structure and make the dough "bucky" (elastic) and hard to work with. I also suggest that you do the division of the dough just after it has been made and is ready to go into the refrigerator, not after. That will minimize the chances of overhandling the dough. When you decide to use the dough balls to make pizzas, upon removing the dough balls from the refrigerator, I would let the dough balls warm up at room temperature for about an hour and a half, and treat the dough gently as you shape the dough balls to make skins.

I ran the original New Faithful dough formulation through the enhanced dough calculating tool at http://www.pizzamaking.com/expanded_calculator.html. That tool did not exist when this thread started and for a good part of its existence. But the tool is a real time saver. While I was at it, I modified the dough formulation to use ADY instead of IDY. For two 14" pizzas, the dough formulation looks like this:

Flour (100%):
Water (60%):
ADY (1.33%):
Salt (2%):
Vegetable (Soybean) Oil (3%):
Sugar (3%):
Total (169.33%):
Single Ball:
581.18 g  |  20.5 oz | 1.28 lbs
348.71 g  |  12.3 oz | 0.77 lbs
7.73 g | 0.27 oz | 0.02 lbs | 2.04 tsp | 0.68 tbsp
11.62 g | 0.41 oz | 0.03 lbs | 2.08 tsp | 0.69 tbsp
17.44 g | 0.62 oz | 0.04 lbs | 3.84 tsp | 1.28 tbsp
17.44 g | 0.62 oz | 0.04 lbs | 4.37 tsp | 1.46 tbsp
984.11 g | 34.71 oz | 2.17 lbs | TF = 0.11275
492.06 g | 17.36 oz | 1.08 lbs
Note: For two 14" pizzas; nominal thickness factor = 0.11; bowl residue compensation = 2.5%

Since you will be making the dough by hand, I used a bowl residue compensation factor of 2.5% in the expanded dough calculating tool. The bowl residue compensation is to compensate for minor dough losses during preparation of the dough. That way, your final dough should have a weight quite close to that given in the above table. I usually use my digital scale to weigh the finished dough. If it is more than what the table shows, I just trim it back to the value given in the table. I indicated using vegetable oil in the dough, which is what most professional pizza operators use, but you can use olive oil or canola oil if you'd like.


Offline kstretch158

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Re: Big Dave's Old Faithful
« Reply #61 on: May 05, 2009, 11:17:40 PM »
Big Dave is very good at what he does and he knows the pizza business like nobodies business but, to say that you have to use a Hobart 60 qt. mixer is just wrong. I have a Thunderbird 60 qt. mixer that looks just like a Hobart and mixes just like a Hobart but does not have the price tag of a Hobart.
I have met Big Dave and have talked to him many times on the phone. You will see him promoting many products because he either has a good relationship with them or is being paid by them. I am not downing Big Dave at all I am just telling everyone how the real world works.

I have tried Big Daves recipe and it is good but, I have my own and I get great reviews on it.
Stromboli's Pizza

Offline bigMoose

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Re: Big Dave's Old Faithful
« Reply #62 on: May 08, 2014, 01:11:39 PM »
I made what I think is Big Dave Ostrander's New Faithful 24 hour cold ferment dough today.  Recipe used (I lowered the IDY and don't think I should have, explanation below.)

268  g        100%  GM Full Strength Flour
161  g          60%  Chilled water from the fridge door
    9  g            3%  Olive Oil
    2  tsp         3%  Sugar
 1/2  tsp    0.65%  SAF IDY
1.12 tsp          2%  Salt

The dough was taken out of the fridge and allowed to warm for 1.5 hours.  It opened easily. 

To me the crust lacked flavor at 24 hours.  It was not developed, and I felt it under fermented.  It did not exhibit the strong "beer" aroma from the oven that I get with good, flavorful crusts.  I should not have reduced the IDY to 0.65% from the recipe's original 1%.  The cornice was not fully developed as shown in the pictures.  My peel semolina/AP flour mix really coated the bottom excessively.  I also used some leftover Red November #2 sauce because it was "handy."  It was way too powerful for this simple motz/pepperoni pie.  It overpowered and was not balanced.  Back to almost straight 7/11 on this style of pie.  The pie was baked at 515 deg F on a cordierite stone in about 8.5 minutes.  My implementation of this was, to me, a dud.
All the best, Dave