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Author Topic: Less Than _ % Statements  (Read 1721 times)

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Online Pete-zza

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Less Than _ % Statements
« on: April 22, 2014, 09:12:28 AM »
Tom,

There is a gap in my knowledge that you may be able to help me with.

As you know, for several years now it has been common for ingredients lists to list the ingredients in descending order of predominance by weight but also to include a section where other ingredients below a certain threshold, such as 0.5%, 1%, 1.5% or 2% (pursuant to FDA CFR Sec. 101.4, at http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/cdrh/cfdocs/cfcfr/CFRSearch.cfm?fr=101.4), are set forth but not necessarily in descending order of predominance by weight.

My question is this: Does it follow that all of the ingredients outside of the "less than _ percent" statement are used in amounts (percents) greater than the stated percent figure? To cite an example, this is an ingredients list for Domino's hand tossed dough/crust:

Hand Tossed Crust: Enriched Flour (Wheat Flour, Iron, Thiamine Mononitrate, Niacin, Riboflavin, Folic Acid) Water, Vegetable Oil (Soybean), Sugar, Salt, Yeast, Vital Wheat Gluten, Less than 1% Dough Conditioners: [Sodium Stearoyl Lactylate, Whey, Enzyme (with Wheat Starch), Ascorbic Acid, L-cysteine, and Silicon Dioxide added as processing aid]

Does the above recitation of ingredients mean that everything before the percent statement is used in an amount greater than 1%? I was most curious about the amount of yeast. I don't know what form of yeast Domino's uses but, according to the YouTube video at , the yeast is stirred in with the water before adding the rest of the dough ingredients. Eventually the dough goes from a finished dough temperature of around 80 degrees F to a 2-hour proof at about 40-45 degrees F and then into refrigerated trucks for delivery to Domino's stores. I know that you believe that Domino's makes frozen dough but I have read that the temperature of their dough is around 35 degrees F. More than once I have read that the Domino's dough is frozen, including statements by Domino's franchisee employees, but Domino's insists that their dough is always fresh. Just this past week, after I sent an email to Domino's on this matter, Domino's sticks by its statements that its dough is fresh. In this vein, see Reply 12 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=31354.msg312820#msg312820. More than 1% yeast, if such is the case, seems like a lot to me for a fresh dough, even if it is fresh yeast, and especially for a dough with a shelf life of about six days (and even up to eight days according to reports I have read). On the other hand, I could understand 1% yeast for a frozen dough. Hence, my question about the less than 1% statement.

Peter

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Re: Less Than _ % Statements
« Reply #1 on: April 22, 2014, 10:02:05 AM »
Peter;
The rule is referred to as the 2% rule in that once the amount of an ingredient falls to a level of less than 2% (based on the product formulation) it is no longer required to be shown in the order of predominance. You will see this on a loaf of bread for example, where the label will read: contains 2% or less of the following... We use this as a tool for reverse engineering a commercial product just as you have done with the Domino's product using the 1% rule. Actually, truth be known, there is a greater level of formulation secrecy using the 2% rule as opposed to the 1.5, 1, or 0.5% rule. I cannot say too much about Domino's dough as I have worked with them extensively and I'm still under a nondisclosure agreement withthem. In summary, all stated ingredients shown prior to the 1% cut off are shown in order of predominance, and any ingredients at or below the 1% cut off do not need to be shown in their order of predominance.
For formulation purposes, salt is also a good indicator, if you think of an average salt level of around 2%, in this case any ingredient listed after the salt is most likely being used at a level of between 1 and 2% unless there is another ingredient between the salt and the 1% cut off.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

Online Pete-zza

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Re: Less Than _ % Statements
« Reply #2 on: April 22, 2014, 10:40:06 AM »
Tom,

Thank you for your reply. Like you, I often use the salt percent to start the analysis of the percents of other ingredients.

I will add that I am mindful that the word "fresh" can have a wide variety of meanings, and sometimes we are on a slippery slope when we talk about what is fresh and what isn't. I have long observed this conundrum when it comes to fish sold in the supermarket. Several years ago, the LA Times even wrote an article on the subject, at http://articles.latimes.com/1990-05-09/business/fi-308_1_fresh-seafood. And, from what I can see, confusion still reigns.

Peter

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Re: Less Than _ % Statements
« Reply #3 on: April 22, 2014, 12:17:35 PM »
Peter;
I too was involved in that fracas. Our friendly, and good meaning Government tried to come up with a single criteria for the word "fresh". What initially came out of it was that the word "fresh" couldn't be used in the labeling of any food that had been processed in any way. Since freezing and baking were deemed to be a form of processing, fresh frozen would have been a thing of the past, as would fresh bread, infact, no bread could have been referred to as "fresh" since the evil act of baking is what stands between a piece of dough and "bread" as we know it. Thank God sensibility came to the rescue! Now we are struggling with menu labeling where those of self proclaimed intelligence think we should have to show the nutritional facts as well as the calorie count for an entire pizza, I don't think you will find too many people that will openly admit that it is their opinion that a whole 16-inch pizza is a single serving. Better to show the total for the entire pizza and then require showing the nutritionals for a single slice which can/will vary depending upon how many pieces the pizza is sliced into. Our argument is a box of cereal compared to a whole pizza, you don't show the nutritionals for the entire box, but instead just for an average (specified) serving size. Strange things happen when we ask to have something as simple as "fresh" defined by those who haven't a clue. Thank God for the review periods before these things are cast in stone.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

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Re: Less Than _ % Statements
« Reply #4 on: April 22, 2014, 02:07:38 PM »
Tom,

It seems to me that the word "frozen" for pizza dough has become stigmatized. There are more pizza operators who use frozen pizza dough than most consumers realize, but the pizza operators don't proclaim any merit or benefit or advantage to using frozen dough in their advertising and promotional marketing materials, possibly out of fear that their customers will view their pizzas much like the pale comparisons of supermarket frozen and take-and-bake pizzas. As you know, Mellow Mushroom ships frozen dough balls to their remote stores all around the country, and while they do not say much about the fact that they use frozen dough, that hasn't seemed to slow them down and there are no howls of protest by their customers that their pizzas were made using frozen dough. When I was helping Norma with a clone of the MM dough when she was thinking of offering such a clone at market, I found frozen dough balls to be easy and convenient to make and use. Of course, you and Jeff Zeak have written extensively on the subject of frozen dough, so that helped me better understand the ins and outs of frozen pizza dough. To me, personally, it wouldn't matter if Domino's uses frozen dough, or dough on the verge of freezing.

Papa John's has also been criticized as using frozen dough, including by worker in their stores, but when I raised this issue with a PJ R&D employee she said that their dough is never frozen, and is kept above 35 degrees F at all times. She made it sound like their equipment in their stores is not capable of freezing dough. My take on all of this is to trust but verify.

Peter

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Offline The Dough Doctor

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Re: Less Than _ % Statements
« Reply #5 on: April 23, 2014, 10:53:35 AM »
Peter;
Again, I have to take the fifth as I'm still under contract with PJ's, but suffice it to say that among  the big box store players, it might be a safe bet to say that they are all using the same dough concept (refrigerated or frozen) to provide dough to their stores. If one were to break from the pack the others would shurely hold them up to ridicule in their advertising so in effect, they are locked into a dance with their competition. The smaller chains, be it national or regional, are not in this situation as they don't stand toe to toe in the ring against these big box chains, this allows them to do whatever works best for them and due to their smaller size, they seldom draw fire from anyone except maybe for a local competitor. As for the use of frozen dough, it certainly is a big market so someone is buying it, you're right, it just isn't being advertised. Personally, when it comes to a pizzeria, I'm with you as I don't think it means very much to the average consumer if the dough that the pizza crust was made from was actually made weeks or months ago or just lastnight, instead, they are more interested in the taste, flavor and texture of the crust and how they perceive it. Frozen dough really isn't all that bad, but it can be improved upon, as I've mentioned before, commercially made frozen dough is made without fermentation or with limited fermentation as in the case of pre-proofed frozen pizza skins. I can't say if the flavor profile of the pre-proofed skins can be improved upon as we haven't done any work along these lines, but since they already do have some fermentation on the dough the flavor really isn't too bad. On the other hand, we have the frozen dough balls/pucks which for the most part do not have any fermentation so one of the things that we commonly do to improve the flavor is to remove the frozen dough from the freezer and allow it to slack out/thaw in the cooler/fridge overnight, then bring it out to room temperature for about 90-minutes, then place it back into the cooler where it will now cold ferment for 24 to 36-hours prior to use. When using this dough we manage it in the same way as we do fresh made dough that has been cold fermented for 24 to 36-hours. However, since most of the commercial frozen dough is made with a reducing agent to help reduce the mixing time of the dough it really doesn't hold up well in the cooler past the 36-hour mark (dough becomes too soft and tacky).
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

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