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Author Topic: Attempt at making "Casey's General Store" gas station pizza  (Read 87991 times)

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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Attempt at making "Casey's General Store" gas station pizza
« Reply #40 on: July 22, 2014, 09:28:55 AM »
Jake,

I'm not sure what you were planning to say in the incomplete last sentence of your post, but the specs for the All Aces flour can be seen at http://www.generalmillscf.com/services/productpdf.ashx?pid=52232000. That flour is a step up from an all-purpose flour from a protein standpoint (it is 12%), but less than the KAAP (or its commercial counterpart), which has a protein content of 11.7%. But the Aces flour is bleached and bromated, malted, and has the full vitamin and iron enrichment package, not just the folic acid as is apparently the case at Casey's if the ingredients list is correct and complete. For your purposes, I wouldn't worry about the enrichment of the flour you used. In that vein, GM has several bleached, bromated, malted and enriched flours that can conceivably work for a Casey's clone. You can see the full array of GM flours at http://www.generalmillscf.com/Home/products/flour.

Peter

Offline Jakew81

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Re: Attempt at making "Casey's General Store" gas station pizza
« Reply #41 on: July 22, 2014, 11:06:51 AM »
Peter.  My apologies. I realize that what I posted was not only an incomplete sentence, but not even a fully formed thought.  I have since edited my post.  I was actually already at the site of the link you just posted while researching flours.  I clicked on the first one on the page, the all aces flour, and the first thing that popped out at me was the fact that the word protein was misspelled.  The quote from you, is from the post about the word potassium being misspelled on Casey's website.   
« Last Edit: July 22, 2014, 02:31:33 PM by Jakew81 »
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Attempt at making "Casey's General Store" gas station pizza
« Reply #42 on: July 22, 2014, 06:03:52 PM »
Jake,

I heard back from Casey's today. For the record, here are the question and answer relative to the Casey's Nutritional Information for the Medium size pizza:

My Question: I was at your website studying your Nutrition Information on your pizzas. The nutrition information is given there for a single slice of a Medium pizza. Can you please tell me how many slices are in a medium pizza for purposes of the Nutrition Information so that I can calculate the data for a full Medium pizza? Thank you.

Casey's Answer: The nutritional information for our large pizzas is correct as they are cut into 12 slices.  The pizzas that are placed in the warmer are cut into 6 pieces and that information is listed under the authorized pizzas.  If you are needing the nutritional information for these as a whole pie, the amount would be Ż per slice.

I should mention here that at the time I sent my email to Casey's the only Nutritional Information that I was aware of was the pdf document I found at the Casey's website, at http://www.caseys.com/sites/default/files/CaseysNutritionalInfo_20130313.pdf. It wasn't until the Casey response mentioned the large pizzas that I started to poke around the Casey's website and found that there was other Nutritional Information embedded in pieces in their menu.

Based on the Casey response, I interpret that response to say that that Casey's normally cuts their large pizzas into 12 slices but that the pizzas that are to be sold as slices and that are put in the warmer are cut into 6 slices. And the Nutritional Information for a full pizza cut into 12 slices would be 1/2 the Nutritional Information embedded in the menu times 12. Is that your understanding?

I may follow up on the Medium size pizza even though I don't think we really need the data for that size. For now, I think we should focus on the large (14") size. We believe we know the dough ball weight for that size (18 ounces), and we can rely on the Nutritional Information for that size to move the ball down the field. However, one of the things I noticed in the pdf document is that the Cholesterol information is the same for a slice of the Cheese pizza and a slice of a Pepperoni pizza. The only way that can happen is if the amount of cheese put on a pepperoni pizza is less than is put on a cheese pizza of the same size. That is a common practice. But if that is the case, I would imagine that the same practice is used for a large pizza. FYI, an ounce of pepperoni slices typically comprises 15-16 slices. I couldn't quite tell how many slices of pepperoni were put on the pepperoni pizza you showed in a recent post, but it looked like 31-32 slices. As a comparison, the $10 pepperoni pizza shown on the Casey's website has 33 slices by my reckoning. I would guess around 2-3 ounces worth. If you end up with a connection at Casey's, you might ask the brand of the pepperoni they use. It will be a foodservice product.

Peter

Offline Jakew81

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Re: Attempt at making "Casey's General Store" gas station pizza
« Reply #43 on: July 22, 2014, 07:59:33 PM »
I believe your interpretation of the information Casey's sent you is accurate.  I do not however know that there was a significantly smaller amount of cheese on the pepperoni pizza than the cheese, it is possible though.  I did take note that if you took an average count each (1/12) slice had between 2 1/2 to 3 slices of pepperoni on each slice, so between 5 and 6 slices of pepperoni per (1/6) warmer slice.  If we assume this is average I believe 33 slices per large pizza is spot on.
These are the numbers I have found for the warmer slices, which you have discovered are two large whole pie slices (1/6 of a large)

PEPPERONI (PER WARMER SLICE)
CALORIES     CARBS   CHOL        FAT   FIBER   PROTEIN   SODIUM
559               66.9g      57.9mg        23.5g   2.9g          23.8g            967.3mg

CHEESE (PER WARMER SLICE)
CALORIES      CARBS      CHOL     FAT         FIBER     PROTEIN       SODIUM
508            66.7g   45.8mg   18.6g   2.9g                21.7g         795.4mg

These are the corresponding numbers from the PDF spreadsheet for a medium slice (1/8 a medium pizza). 

Pepperoni 387 47.9g 29.2mg 10.5g 2.1g 16.2g 664.1mg
Cheese 351 48.8g 29.2mg 12.3g 2.12g 14.5g 516.3mg

We have already established there is at least one typo on the Casey's website, that being said I know how easy it would be typing this spreadsheet up to put a number in the wrong place.  I find it hard to believe that the cholesterol on the pepperoni pizza is the same as cheese and there is less fat on a slice of pepperoni. 12.3 on cheese and 10.5 on the pepperoni.  But I may be wrong.
I would venture to guess that the large warmer slice numbers embedded in the website are probably more accurate, and suggest we accept these numbers, especially since we believe we know the 18 oz dough ball equals 1/6 of a 14 inch pizza. 
« Last Edit: July 22, 2014, 08:15:43 PM by Jakew81 »
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Attempt at making "Casey's General Store" gas station pizza
« Reply #44 on: July 22, 2014, 08:21:41 PM »
Jake,

I am going to follow up with Casey's on the Nutritional Information for the 12" size to be on the safe side.

Today I saw a video that showed a Casey's pizza being made in a cutter pan:



Is that what Casey's generally uses to make its pizzas?

Peter

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Offline Jakew81

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Re: Attempt at making "Casey's General Store" gas station pizza
« Reply #45 on: July 22, 2014, 09:36:44 PM »
This is absolutely the type of pan I used to use. As I have stated at some point on this thread, we would eyeball/guesstimate the dough as we cut it off, then run it though the sheeter twice for correct thickness, dock it, and cut off any excess after placed in the pan.  I am not certain that is still, or ever was, company policy.  We would then push around the edge to form the crust.  That also looks like the type of pan I saw on Sunday.
I will also say that I helped open the store I worked at and we were just trying to figure out what to do on our own most of the time. I have also stated before that the chain has grown exponentially since then and I am sure things have been streamlined over the years.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2014, 09:57:02 PM by Jakew81 »
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Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Attempt at making "Casey's General Store" gas station pizza
« Reply #46 on: July 23, 2014, 11:38:50 AM »
I have corrected my last post and my memory banks to set the record straight.

You know how some things, for whatever reason, stick out in your mind forever? This is one of those things for me. I remember someone many years ago telling me something to the effect that when they take the fat out of milk, they don't replace it with water thus concentrating everything else. I don't remember who said or what the context was, and I have no idea why it struck me so hard that I think about it every time I think about milk. I guess it was an epiphany for me.
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Offline RacerX

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Re: Attempt at making "Casey's General Store" gas station pizza
« Reply #47 on: July 23, 2014, 02:05:31 PM »
I hope this may help some.  If I remember correctly, in the begining of Caseys pizza there was a falling out between corporate management at Caseys over the pizza and Breadeaux pizza was then started by the person that started Caseys pizza. 

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Attempt at making "Casey's General Store" gas station pizza
« Reply #48 on: July 23, 2014, 02:19:31 PM »
where are these gas stations and what is the attraction to this mcpizza looking pie?
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Offline Jakew81

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Re: Attempt at making "Casey's General Store" gas station pizza
« Reply #49 on: July 23, 2014, 02:39:00 PM »
where are these gas stations and what is the attraction to this mcpizza looking pie?

Bob, they are all over the midwest.  I am not sure what the attraction is but like I have said before, it is not great pizza, but it is unique.  I would definitely rather have this than any other chain like Papa Johns, or Pizza Hut.  It is cheap greasy two in the morning type of food,  for sure.  But a lot of people love it.
I heard someone interviewed on the radio this morning, that is in the state for RAGBRAI (think tour de france across Iowa) that claims to have eaten casey's pizza everyday since arriving.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2014, 02:48:49 PM by Jakew81 »
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Attempt at making "Casey's General Store" gas station pizza
« Reply #50 on: July 23, 2014, 02:47:33 PM »
where are these gas stations and what is the attraction to this mcpizza looking pie?
Bob,

There around 1800 outlets, mostly in Iowa and a few surrounding states. Their pizzas and their fans are no different than the fans of the pizzas of Papa John's, Domino's, Little Caesars and other such chains.

Peter

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Attempt at making "Casey's General Store" gas station pizza
« Reply #51 on: July 23, 2014, 02:52:36 PM »
Bob,

There around 1800 outlets, mostly in Iowa and a few surrounding states. Their pizzas and their fans are no different than the fans of the pizzas of Papa John's, Domino's, Little Caesars and other such chains.

Peter
thanks peter. their prices seem to be pretty good for what they are selling.
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Offline Jakew81

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Re: Attempt at making "Casey's General Store" gas station pizza
« Reply #52 on: July 23, 2014, 03:02:24 PM »
I hope this may help some.  If I remember correctly, in the begining of Caseys pizza there was a falling out between corporate management at Caseys over the pizza and Breadeaux pizza was then started by the person that started Caseys pizza.
Thanks RacerX.  I know that some time before I started, there was some kind of Major falling out in corporate management.  I know for a fact after this corporate made the franchise stores lives difficult.  Back then if the store sold lottery tickets, had an ATM, sold fried cheese sticks, icees, or nachos, it was not a corporate store.  Casey's corporate forced changes in the way the franchisees operated and if they refused the franchise was terminated.  That is when the store I worked at was built.  To try to compete with the mom and Pop stores that were turned in to Amoco's, or "JC's Corner Store" instead of a "Casey's General Store".  Sometime after this corporate started acquiring all of the remaining franchise stores.  I believe they are all corporate now, and that's when the streamlining from store to store really took place.  In recent years they also began acquiring small chain and independent convenience stores.  There is a place I can think of where, because of the practice of buying out the local competition, there are 3 stores within a quarter mile.  Two of them on the same side of the street about 500 yards apart.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2014, 03:17:46 PM by Jakew81 »
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Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Attempt at making "Casey's General Store" gas station pizza
« Reply #53 on: July 23, 2014, 03:26:30 PM »
Thanks RacerX.  I know that some time before I started, there was some kind of Major falling out in corporate management.  I know for a fact after this corporate made the franchise stores lives difficult.  Back then if the store sold lottery tickets, had an ATM, sold fried cheese sticks, icees, or nachos, it was not a corporate store.  Casey's corporate forced changes in the way the franchisees operated and if they refused the franchise was terminated.  That is when the store I worked at was built.  To try to compete with the mom and Pop stores that were turned in to Amoco's, or "JC's Corner Store" instead of a "Casey's General Store".  Sometime after this corporate started acquiring all of the remaining franchise stores.  I believe they are all corporate now, and that's when the streamlining from store to store really took place.  In recent years they also began acquiring small chain and independent convenience stores.  There is a place I can think of where, because of the practice of buying out the local competition, there are 3 stores within a quarter mile.  Two of them on the same side of the street about 500 yards apart.
that seems wierd....ray kroc would build across the street from a burger king and then when the BK went out of business he`d buy it, bulldoze it, and turn it into an appliance store.
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Offline Jakew81

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Re: Attempt at making "Casey's General Store" gas station pizza
« Reply #54 on: July 23, 2014, 03:31:35 PM »
that seems wierd....ray kroc would build across the street from a burger king and then when the BK went out of business he`d buy it, bulldoze it, and turn it into an appliance store.

I know, baffles the mind.  But most of them are not nearly that close to each other.
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Offline Jakew81

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Re: Attempt at making "Casey's General Store" gas station pizza
« Reply #55 on: July 23, 2014, 04:41:09 PM »
Racer X.  Thanks again.  I have just visited the Breadeaux website and The first thing I notice is how similar the style and font of the website is to that of Casey's.  I actually pulled two Graphics, one from Casey's website and one from Breadeaux and asked my coworker to see how similar they were.  She agreed and then I explained they were not both designs of Casey's.  She was surprised.  Then I read this.

"Breadea˙x Pizza, one of the fastest growing pizza chains in the Midwest and Canada.
Since its establishment in Corning, Iowa in 1985, Breadea˙x Pizza restaurants have continued to open in Iowa, Kansas, Missouri, Nebraska and Illinois. We are actively expanding as the demand for our exciting franchise concept and opportunity continues to grow.
Breadea˙x Pizza was designed with rural communities in mind. Franchises are attractively priced, and the company stresses that there is corporate help every step of the way. A typical unit can usually be opened for business 60-90 days following approval of final plans.
The company moved its Corporate Headquarters to St. Joseph, Missouri in 1989. The St. Joseph area is ideal for the implementation of the company's growth plans. With access to many major Interstates, and the Kansas City airport just 40 minutes away, St. Joseph is centrally located within our market area.
What makes Breadea˙x Pizza different from other pizza franchises?...Our Products!
What makes our products different? The most important single factor is our crust, which is chewy and sweet, and reminiscent of fine French Bread. While other pizza places boast about using dough made fresh daily, at Breadea˙x Pizza restaurants, our dough is aged and double-raised, once quickly, and the second time slowly while being chilled. This process is done on-site at every Breadea˙x Pizza location. The major difference in our dough preparation creates our distinctive taste and texture.
Our Breadea˙x Pizza sauce and dough additives are packaged and sealed in a food laboratory, which ensures quality control from day to day, restaurant to restaurant. Our second great product difference is our cheese. It is a semi-soft blend of Realş Cheese, made from fresh whole milk. Our cheese, therefore, has a unique texture, flavor and workability.
The third great product difference is that our Breadea˙x Pizza meat toppings are lean meat. There is never any cereal, soy bean extender, fats or other non-meat fillers used in our Breadea˙x Pizza specialty meats."

This makes me think you may be correct, and  in relation to the information I have also shared about Casey's wanting to eliminate the franchises, it makes sense to me that could have been a large difference in opinion between franchising or not.  Breadeaux is solely franchises and "the company stresses that there is corporate help every step of the way" for small rural restaurants to make their own pizza.  With a dough style being "soft" with a "distinctive taste and texture", and technique that fits in with what we know about Casey's, including the cold ferment (after a warm ferment and punch down apparently), and the inclusion of dough stabilizers.  That along with the Whole milk cheese, and this Jab- "While other pizza places boast about using dough made fresh daily..." 
Could be, I have not had a breadeax in ages but the basic pizza looks very similar to Casey's pizza.
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Attempt at making "Casey's General Store" gas station pizza
« Reply #56 on: July 23, 2014, 06:21:54 PM »
You know how some things, for whatever reason, stick out in your mind forever? This is one of those things for me. I remember someone many years ago telling me something to the effect that when they take the fat out of milk, they don't replace it with water thus concentrating everything else. I don't remember who said or what the context was, and I have no idea why it struck me so hard that I think about it every time I think about milk. I guess it was an epiphany for me.
Craig,

It's funny that you should raise that example because a similar thing happened to me recently. I had raised some technical issues with Tom Lehmann in an email, one of which had to do with the way that Domino's presents nutrition information for just the crust part of its baked pizzas. I didn't know how one would do that. Tom referred me to a co-worker at the AIB who is involved in food labeling. She was also puzzled but she did say that once water is removed from a crust during baking, all of the nutrient values relative to the baked crust increase. She referred to it as "nutrient density". She added that the actual values of ingredients like oil do not change during baking.

In my reverse engineering and clone projects, including the one in this thread, I depend on the fact that nutrients like fats (Total Fat and Sat Fat), sodium, and cholesterol do not change quantitatively during baking. Their nutrient density may change but not their values.

Peter

Offline Jakew81

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Re: Attempt at making "Casey's General Store" gas station pizza
« Reply #57 on: July 23, 2014, 07:30:03 PM »
Peter I have a couple of questions for you. I have tried in vain to find a bleached, enriched, bromated, bread flour at 12.6% protein that is readily available to me.  I have been able to secure a gold medal bread flour, that has protein at 12.2 to 12.7 percent.  I believe this will at least be better than what I have been using for now.  Also I have found an article in which Tom lehmann states that sweet dairy whey will increase crust color at and above 3% with no need to adjust hydration. The whey I keep coming across is Bobs redmill. Is this suitable, and what, fundamentally would make this work differently than a bakers dry milk powder?  As always, thank you. 
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Attempt at making "Casey's General Store" gas station pizza
« Reply #58 on: July 23, 2014, 08:55:30 PM »
Peter I have a couple of questions for you. I have tried in vain to find a bleached, enriched, bromated, bread flour at 12.6% protein that is readily available to me.  I have been able to secure a gold medal bread flour, that has protein at 12.2 to 12.7 percent.  I believe this will at least be better than what I have been using for now.  Also I have found an article in which Tom lehmann states that sweet dairy whey will increase crust color at and above 3% with no need to adjust hydration. The whey I keep coming across is Bobs redmill. Is this suitable, and what, fundamentally would make this work differently than a bakers dry milk powder?  As always, thank you.
Jake,

You are not going to find a bromated bread flour at the retail level. The best you are likely to do is to find a bleached, malted and enriched bread flour. But I don't think that you need a bleached bread flour, since the only purpose of bleaching is to whiten the flour. Instead, I would suggest that you use the unbleached, malted and enriched King Arthur bread flour (KABF), which is widely available at the retail level. The protein content of the KABF is 12.7%.

As for your whey versus dry milk powder question, both are dairy products but they are quite different. Whey is a byproduct of cheesemaking whereas dry milk powder is a dry form of liquid milk. Both contain lactose, which contributes to crust coloration, but whey has about 70% lactose versus 50% for dry milk powder, making the whey more preferable if crust coloration is an important requirement. Both will have a textural effect on the dough and final crust, but they may be different textural effects. The two products will also impart some flavor to the finished crust. The dry milk powder will also contribute a small amount of fat, some protein, calcium, and other minerals and vitamins to the finished crust. Both products are frequently used commercially in pizza doughs, with pizza chains being fond of using both products in some of their pizza doughs. Pizza Hut, Domino's and Donatos come to mind.

Over the years, I have written extensively on the use of dry milk powders and whey in pizza doughs. Rather than repeating everything of consequence here, you might find the following posts useful in understanding the differences between whey and dry milk powders. The last post also mentions several sources for whey and dry milk powders.

Reply 7 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=1873.msg17620;topicseen#msg17620

Reply 27 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=16775.msg166393;topicseen#msg166393

Reply 1 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=8791.msg76201;topicseen#msg76201

Reply 6 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=3257.msg27655;topicseen#msg27655

Reply 619 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=3940.msg159012#msg159012

Reply 193 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=12173.msg119961;topicseen#msg119961

Peter

Offline Jakew81

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Re: Attempt at making "Casey's General Store" gas station pizza
« Reply #59 on: July 23, 2014, 09:25:54 PM »
Thank you again Peter, I will continue to look for KABF. However the only king Arthur I have found is ap.  I glanced over your links and the carnation dry milk does say nestle for bakers on the label. I will read each of them more throughly later.  I will probably pick up some bobs redmill sweet whey at some point and incorporate it into my experiments.  I thank you again and will more closely look at each link again.
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