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Author Topic: What do vegetarians eat?  (Read 31010 times)

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Offline TXCraig1

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Re: What do vegetarians eat?
« Reply #40 on: August 28, 2014, 03:53:11 PM »
There are many forms of vegetarians. For example, there are so-called ovo-vegetarians who eat eggs, lacto-vegetarians who eat dairy products, and ovo-lacto vegetarians who eat both eggs and dairy products. There are also vegetarians who eat fish and other seafood. They are called pescetarians. This allows such vegetarians to get more protein in their diet. Otherwise, they have to rely more on protein sources such as legumes, soy products, nuts, and grains.

Peter

That is splitting some pretty fine hairs.

ovo+vegetarian would be more accurate...
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Offline dylandylan

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Re: What do vegetarians eat?
« Reply #41 on: August 28, 2014, 04:05:52 PM »
Personally I'm at the "fairly relaxed" end of the vegetarian spectrum, eating dairy and occasionally eggs. So that's ovo-lacto-vegetarian.    Probably 50% of my meals are vegan, but certainly I'm certainly not vegan.

Yeah the terminology does get into hair splitting but is basically helpful in the same way as categorising pizza.

Offline reeter

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Re: What do vegetarians eat?
« Reply #42 on: August 28, 2014, 09:44:14 PM »
I pretty much don't like meat, no clue why I like pepperoni?  I was ok until my dad would butcher the cow that had dried up (pass the Beulah), watch the chickens being beheaded and making bets on how far they would flop after and OMG, those poor rabbits.  I sort of got semi vege after that, but my mother was not a good cook, so it wasn't hard, I didn't enjoy chewing a mouthful of meat for 20 minutes.  Very strange land to inhabit. 
I saw a video this AM about the younger people in India.  A lot of them eat meat out at fast food restaurants,  most do not tell their parents?????
reeter

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: What do vegetarians eat?
« Reply #43 on: August 29, 2014, 09:37:47 AM »
As one who has been a student of health, nutrition and wellness for many years, and attempting to make heads or tails out of reports and studies on these topics from the health and scientific communities, I can personally attest to the difficulty in selecting a diet that is the best for one. There are many reasons for this. Many studies are not based on human trials with controls. Rather, they might be based on meta-data or epidemiological data. And, in some cases, the only data to support a particular position or recommendation is based on animal data. A simple example of this is resveratrol, a component of grapes and wines (my favorite drink of choice, hence my interest) with perceived beneficial antioxidant and phytochemical benefits, whose efficacy has recently been challenged. And some trials may have been conducted with small samples or for short durations. I have also discovered that there is a lot of competition for recognition among the researchers in the health field, and in some cases there are no peer reviews and, in isolated cases, even fraud. The Internet publishes everything, the good, the bad and the ugly. (For a scholarly article on the above and other related matters, see http://www.plosmedicine.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pmed.0020124.)

The net effect of all of the above is that one can expect a lot of swinging of the pendulum on medical and health and nutrition issues, with conflicting views and recommendations, and a lot of flip flopping or reversal of prior opinions, many of which have been cast in stone and their proponents, even highly respected ones like that American Heart Association, are very reluctant to change. I think we have all been "victims" of these flip flops at one time or another, even if those who promoted their results and recommendations had no intention or desire to harm anyone.

A recent article that does a pretty nice job of highlighting many of the above issues is the one at http://www.bakingbusiness.com/articles/news_home/Health-and-Wellness/2014/06/Slavin_bemoans_public_misperce.aspx?ID=%7B74F7E01D-777D-46B3-B3E7-ED792B9A8E2D%7D. Note, in particular, the emphasis and discussions on calories and, especially, protein. All diets, whether vegan, vegetarian or ketogenic (more on this below), need protein. It is perhaps the most basic building block of human health. The basic issue is whether one supplements the protein with carbohydrates or fats/meats while staying within an acceptable total caloric range. What I also found interesting about this article is that the food industry reacts to concerns about health issues, such as sodium reduction, without even knowing if there is a legitimate need to do so. It seems that they buckle to every demand.

Another fascinating item on the above subject, and one that focuses on an anti-vegetarian diet (but also addresses vegetarianism), is an audio playback from a weekly public radio program called the Peoples Pharmacy. The Peoples Pharmacy is like a gadfly in that it tries to make sense of conflicting studies and reports in the fields of human health, nutrition and wellness. They have no ideological dogs in the hunt although these fields provide a nice living for the hosts of the programs (the Graedons).

The abovementioned program segment is called Flipping the Food Pyramid Upside-Down. It is found at http://www.peoplespharmacy.com/2014/08/16/958-flipping-the-food-pyramid-upside-down. The audio segment spends a lot of time discussing weight and obesity and diabetes/pre-diabetes health concerns (overweight and obesity are very often connected to or pre-cursors of diabetes and pre-diabetes), starting at about 8:00 in the audio segment, but the intent of the segment is broader than just those issues. But, clearly, the thesis of the recommended approach is the keeping of carbohydrates in the diet at very low levels, less than 20 grams a day, and relying on ketones as the source of energy and burning fat (hence its value to those seeking to lose weight). That means that such a diet would be high in fats and meats. Toward the end of the segment, there is even a discussion of how vegetarians might find a diet that is suitable for them. I have my doubts about the latter since a ketogenic diet for vegetarians would rule out many high glycemic vegetables (mentioned in the audio segment) and fruits (which were not specifically mentioned in the audio segment). By their nature, vegetarian diets tend to contain high levels of carbohydrates that supplement the protein in such diets. But, to be clear, it is possible for vegetarians to have a healthy diet without following the recommendations offered up in the audio segment, especially if they do not have glucose tolerance issues. 

The above audio segment also discusses the sodium flip flopping and other related issues that one might find of interest. One of the most interesting aspects of the segment is the skepticism of the hosts about the ketogenic diet, as evidenced by their many questions trying to understand that diet since it flies in the face of conventional knowledge.

Peter

Offline dylandylan

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Re: What do vegetarians eat?
« Reply #44 on: August 29, 2014, 04:13:24 PM »
I definitely view the conventional wisdom (food pyramid etc.) as often being counter-productive - itís very hard to swim against but really important to do so if the norm isnít actually factual.

The food health research field is super interesting. I do occasionally check out some findings, however Iíve taken a step back from closely following or responding to trends around this.  The conflicting conclusions, flip-flopping, and many vested interests mean itís a full time occupation to stay up with it, interpret it and weight it all up.  Not that I donít value the research, Iím extremely thankful that it is being done, but the assimilation of the science into applicable cohesive dietary wisdom is still lacking.  Attempting to follow an ideal ďbacked-by-researchĒ diet is a fairly chaotic prospect IMHO.  The dietary laws arenít emerging as far as I can see, itís just dietary wars for now.

I never suggest to anyone that a vegetarian diet is healthier (than a carnivorous one) - even though some will claim it is.   Mainly because I'm unconvinced that there is accepted scientific agreement that any particular diet is healthier. 

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Offline dylandylan

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What do vegetarians eat?
« Reply #45 on: August 29, 2014, 09:47:20 PM »
A quick lunch of button mushrooms with cream on toasted Vogels.

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: What do vegetarians eat?
« Reply #46 on: August 29, 2014, 10:59:41 PM »
A quick lunch of button mushrooms with cream on toasted Vogels.

I'd eat that all day long. Acrylamide and all.  :-D
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Offline ExPat Steve

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Re: What do vegetarians eat?
« Reply #47 on: August 30, 2014, 12:13:26 PM »
For a current work project Iíve been researching ďfake meatĒ which is plant based protein made to look like and have a similar texture to real meat and chicken.  One company based in Southern California and funded by the Gates Foundation is called Beyond Meat.  Another guy in the Netherlands calls himself The Vegetarian Butcher. 
Personally, Iíve always eaten meat, poultry, fish - the works, and I always will.  And part of me wonders why a committed vegetarian would want to eat something that is trying to be beef or chicken, but this seems to be the new craze.
Two nights ago, as part of my research, I went to an Asian restaurant in Paris that is strictly vegetarian, but the menu lists chicken, beef, pork, fish, etc.  But it is all plant-based protein, made to look and taste like chicken, beef, pork, fish, etc.  Iíll attach a couple of pictures.  It looks like the real thing, it even has a texture close to the real thing.  And the flavor is neutral, like veal, so it takes on the flavor of the sauce and other elements of the dish.  Some are soy based, some are wheat gluten based, and some are pea protein based.  No animal products of any kind are in them.
This might be what vegetarians will eat in the future to get their protein.

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: What do vegetarians eat?
« Reply #48 on: August 30, 2014, 12:36:16 PM »
It won't be long until we have "meat," chemically identical to meat from slaughtered animals, produced in a factory that never sees an animal pass through its doors. Will that be vegetarian or even vegan maybe?
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, baker's yeast when we must, but always great pizza."  
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: What do vegetarians eat?
« Reply #49 on: August 30, 2014, 12:59:01 PM »
It won't be long until we have "meat," chemically identical to meat from slaughtered animals, produced in a factory that never sees an animal pass through its doors. Will that be vegetarian or even vegan maybe?
Craig,

It will be Soylent Green  :-D:

http://cinema.theiapolis.com/movie-1HWI/soylent-green/storyline.html and



Peter

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Offline ExPat Steve

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Re: What do vegetarians eat?
« Reply #50 on: August 30, 2014, 01:05:29 PM »
It won't be long until we have "meat," chemically identical to meat from slaughtered animals, produced in a factory that never sees an animal pass through its doors. Will that be vegetarian or even vegan maybe?

Hopefully, I'll be dead by then...

Offline dylandylan

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Re: What do vegetarians eat?
« Reply #51 on: August 30, 2014, 02:21:34 PM »
It won't be long until we have "meat," chemically identical to meat from slaughtered animals, produced in a factory that never sees an animal pass through its doors. Will that be vegetarian or even vegan maybe?

The lab meat concept gets into some strange territory.  If it's grown from animal stem cells then as an animal byproduct (which I think you can call it) I'd not call it vegan.  But it may well pass the definition for being vegetarian... maybe there'll need to be a new substrata of vegetarians that eat synthetics.  It does prompt reconsideration of the terms.

Offline dylandylan

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Re: What do vegetarians eat?
« Reply #52 on: August 30, 2014, 02:43:39 PM »
For a current work project I’ve been researching “fake meat” which is plant based protein made to look like and have a similar texture to real meat and chicken.  One company based in Southern California and funded by the Gates Foundation is called Beyond Meat.  Another guy in the Netherlands calls himself The Vegetarian Butcher. 
Personally, I’ve always eaten meat, poultry, fish - the works, and I always will.  And part of me wonders why a committed vegetarian would want to eat something that is trying to be beef or chicken, but this seems to be the new craze.
Two nights ago, as part of my research, I went to an Asian restaurant in Paris that is strictly vegetarian, but the menu lists chicken, beef, pork, fish, etc.  But it is all plant-based protein, made to look and taste like chicken, beef, pork, fish, etc.  I’ll attach a couple of pictures.  It looks like the real thing, it even has a texture close to the real thing.  And the flavor is neutral, like veal, so it takes on the flavor of the sauce and other elements of the dish.  Some are soy based, some are wheat gluten based, and some are pea protein based.  No animal products of any kind are in them.
This might be what vegetarians will eat in the future to get their protein.

Looks like some tasty food Steve!

Seitan (wheat gluten based fake meat) has been around for a very long time, allegedly developed by Buddhist monks.  You're right there does seem to be a recent wave of popularity of these products though but it's an established industry, companies like Quorn for example have been around for about 30 years.    As to why a vegetarian would eat these products, the reasons vary.   The products are mostly convenience food - quick and simple to prepare, so that ticks the box for anyone new to vegetarianism, not inclined to cook a lot, young and inexperienced in the kitchen, or just busy.  I've been known to grab fake meat on occasioan when I'm completely out of time for cooking. I used to shop in a supermarket near a university and the students just grab the stuff I think because of its simplicity in the kitchen.   Another reason is for some (mostly new) vegetarians who still crave "meaty" food - this is the pale substitute, but if you want bacon... then facon will have to do.  Sort of like nicotine patches for someone quitting smoking.   And for me the reason is it's just another ingredient - to me it is its own thing, not a substitute for anything.  You can add it to a dish or base a dish around and I don't think any further than that.  Most fake meats contain a reasonable amount of protein (although often incomplete) so nutrition can be a factor.

Now that I think about it... the biggest meat craving I personally have is wanting to emulate Craig's pepperoni pizza... I might have to track down some fakeroni to do just that.

Offline dylandylan

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Re: What do vegetarians eat?
« Reply #53 on: August 30, 2014, 03:10:15 PM »
Nothing but carbohydrates, I know because I recently stopped being vegan after 2 years  ;)

Kale Dog!  Sorry missed your post back there.  A good point, it's a reality for vegans and vegetarians - it's very hard work to keep carbs low and still eat "normally".     Especially knowing that I'm going to be cooking pizza many weekends, I try to offset that by a few meals a few meals per week that have no grains/starches.

Offline dylandylan

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Re: What do vegetarians eat?
« Reply #54 on: August 31, 2014, 02:00:15 AM »
Lentil and rice salad

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Offline TXCraig1

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Re: What do vegetarians eat?
« Reply #55 on: August 31, 2014, 09:21:49 AM »
Hopefully, I'll be dead by then...

Where do you think the Soylent Green will come from?  ;D
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Offline moose13

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Re: What do vegetarians eat?
« Reply #56 on: August 31, 2014, 11:51:27 AM »
What do vegetarians eat?
The top 1/4 of this photo i guess.  ???

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: What do vegetarians eat?
« Reply #57 on: August 31, 2014, 12:46:45 PM »
What do vegetarians eat?
The top 1/4 of this photo i guess.  ???

I see a golden opportunity for some teamwork!  ;D
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Offline moose13

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Re: What do vegetarians eat?
« Reply #58 on: August 31, 2014, 01:09:18 PM »
I see a golden opportunity for some teamwork!  ;D

Me too, i will fight ya fir the later 3/4 >:(

Offline dylandylan

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Re: What do vegetarians eat?
« Reply #59 on: August 31, 2014, 02:05:30 PM »
What do vegetarians eat?
The top 1/4 of this photo i guess.  ???

Those are synthetic burgers right?  ;)

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