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Author Topic: Craig's Johnny's Clone  (Read 43159 times)

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Offline TXCraig1

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Craig's Johnny's Clone
« on: August 30, 2014, 05:42:38 PM »
This is my first pass at a Johnny’s clone. Having never tasted the real thing makes cloning somewhat nebulous, notwithstanding, I’m very pleased how it came out. Thanks to Mmmph and pdog for getting this ball rolling. It’s something I’ve been thinking about doing for a long time and have kept putting off. Thanks also to scott123 for some valuable insight provided offline.

The formula is basically Mmmph’s with a bit more salt and oil: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=33684.0

Total Formula
100% KABP
60% RO water
2.5% salt
2% oil
0.057% IDY

I only made one ball – I was mostly curious about how it would handle. I mixed and kneaded it by hand.

Preferment:
100g flour
100g water
2.2 grains IDY (1 grain = 1/7000lb – measured with a reloading scale)

The preferment was left covered at RT (75F) for 12 hours.

Added to the preferment:
148g flour
49g water
6g salt
5g vegetable oil

Total formula:
248g flour
149g water  (60%)
6g salt (2.4%)
5g oil (2.0%)
0.143g IDY (.0576%)

This yielded about 400g dough after bowl residue.  I cut it down to 375g. I thought I would make a 15” pie with TF = 0.075. I didn’t measure my stone first, and it’s only 14.5”, so the pie actually came in at TF=0.080. Next time, I will probably try 350g for a true TF=0.075. I wouldn’t be surprised if I end up at 330g (TF=0.70).

I gave the final dough a two hour rest in the fridge (it was only going to be 20 minutes, but I fell asleep) and then one set of stretch and folds. It looked very nice, so I balled it and put it in the fridge (because I misread Mmmph’s post where he said he put it in his wine cooler at 64F). I left it in the fridge for 36 hours. This morning, I took it out and left it on the counter (75F) for about 6 hours and it was perfect. Another 6 hours in the fridge would not have hurt anything, so this is probably how I will do it in the future for an evening bake.

I rolled the dough out to 15”. The dough handled beautifully. It didn’t resist at all. I picked it up and stretched it out to about 16” by hand and then laid it out on my peel (15”) and helped it shrink back to 15”.

I topped it with very thinly sliced Boar’s Head WM aged mozz, I didn’t use any shreds (didn’t have any). I will use a bit more cheese next time. I didn’t use any white cheddar. I might try a tiny amount in the future. The mozz we have here just doesn’t have much flavor. 

After the cheese, I spooned on an even coat (across the entire surface of cheese) of a very thin sauce I made with Pomi tomato sauce (the Pomi sauce is tomato only. It does not have any other ingredients like most tomato sauces), a small pinch of oregano, salt to taste, and evoo. I didn’t measure anything. I will use a bit less evoo next time – just enough to get it to the point where if you added any more it would separate noticeably. I can get away with using a lot more evoo in the sauce I use for “NP” cheese pies in the WFO. This sauce requires a bit more finesse. The flavor of the sauce was really good. I’d use the Pomi sauce for this again. After the sauce, I put down some freshly cracked black pepper and a light sprinkling of grated pecorino romano.

I baked the pie at 550F w/convection on a 1/2” cordierite stone that was preheated for over an hour. I didn’t time the bake, but it was probably in the ballpark of 7 minutes. The pie was not quite as browned/charred on the bottom as I would have like, but it wasn’t disappointing light either.

Overall, the pie was really good. There was lots of flavor in the crust (for baker’s yeast); it was nicely crispy but not tough. I will be making more of these.

Below: a Johnny’s pie (from the internet - http://www.travelandeats.com/johnnys-pizzeria-best-ny-pizza) on the left and mine on the right:

EDIT (3/31/16): The flour, KABP, should be KABF (King Arthur Bread Flour); for additional flour options, see Reply 130 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=33831.msg423975#msg423975, et seq.
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, baker's yeast when we must, but always great pizza."  
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Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Craig's Johnny's Clone
« Reply #1 on: August 30, 2014, 05:43:28 PM »
 More pics of my pie:
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, baker's yeast when we must, but always great pizza."  
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Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Craig's Johnny's Clone
« Reply #2 on: August 30, 2014, 05:43:51 PM »
The sauce:
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, baker's yeast when we must, but always great pizza."  
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Offline Mmmph

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Re: Craig's Johnny's Clone
« Reply #3 on: August 30, 2014, 05:47:19 PM »
Have you ever eaten a Johnny's Pizza?
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Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Craig's Johnny's Clone
« Reply #4 on: August 30, 2014, 05:50:00 PM »
Have you ever eaten a Johnny's Pizza?

No. I say so in the second sentence...
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, baker's yeast when we must, but always great pizza."  
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Offline Donjo911

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Re: Craig's Johnny's Clone
« Reply #5 on: August 30, 2014, 06:03:46 PM »
Craig,
That is amazing. To say you do nothing half-assed would be an understatement.  That's very impressive. Especially having read over the past few days from the time frame and the genesis of your decision to try it, to actual execution of the plan. Very well done. I'm jealous of your mind and your skill (again!)
Cheers,
Don
I have done wrong.. but what I did, I thought needed to be done.

Offline Mmmph

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Re: Craig's Johnny's Clone
« Reply #6 on: August 30, 2014, 06:04:26 PM »
Sorry...missed it. Yours looks great.

I tried Boar's Head today...It's good, but it's not right.

I used Polly-O deli sliced last week. It's really close.

How's Pomi compared to 6N1, flavorwise? I'm sure I've read that you tried them.
Practice makes pizza

Offline Johnny the Gent

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Re: Craig's Johnny's Clone
« Reply #7 on: August 30, 2014, 06:05:08 PM »
Don pretty much nailed it. WOW - that looks PDG (pretty darn good)!
Il miglior fabbro

Offline norma427

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Re: Craig's Johnny's Clone
« Reply #8 on: August 30, 2014, 06:43:11 PM »
Craig,

Your Johnny's clone looks delicious!

Norma

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Craig's Johnny's Clone
« Reply #9 on: August 30, 2014, 07:09:41 PM »
How's Pomi compared to 6N1, flavorwise? I'm sure I've read that you tried them.

Not as rich as you would expect given the thinness. Still, solid tomato flavor. Very smooth - not a trace of unevenness in the texture. I don't think your sauce can have much body at all for this pizza.
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, baker's yeast when we must, but always great pizza."  
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Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Craig's Johnny's Clone
« Reply #10 on: August 30, 2014, 07:42:17 PM »
Nice write up and good looking pie C.  :chef:

I notice you answered your own question once posed to me about sacrificing an upturned slice for photogenic sake.  >:D
Flip this style of pie slice back over within the 5 sec. rule an it still eats like brand new money, eh?  :)

Wonder how sliced Grande WM would be on this.....or maybe Tom`s Oaxaca? 
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Offline shuboyje

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Re: Craig's Johnny's Clone
« Reply #11 on: August 30, 2014, 07:54:05 PM »
Just more evidence that you are the best pizza make in America Craig.  I don't say that to feed your ego, and I don't think you are that type regardless, but it is something I truly believe.
-Jeff

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Craig's Johnny's Clone
« Reply #12 on: August 30, 2014, 08:02:58 PM »
Just more evidence that you are the best pizza make in America Craig.  I don't say that to feed your ego, and I don't think you are that type regardless, but it is something I truly believe.
I agree shu.  8)

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Offline Mmmph

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Re: Craig's Johnny's Clone
« Reply #13 on: August 30, 2014, 08:38:06 PM »
I don't think your sauce can have much body at all for this pizza.

Agreed. As I've said, 6n1, Classico crushed (R.I.P.), or Tomato Magic is the right flavor...with a buttery, funky mozzarella underneath to key it all.
The flavor profile of Johnny's is unique to any other pizza I've had. I can dig Varasano's passion for Johnny's.
Joe's on Carmine is close in cheese/sauce, but their dough is weak compared to This pizza.

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Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Craig's Johnny's Clone
« Reply #14 on: August 30, 2014, 08:52:25 PM »
Agreed. As I've said, 6n1, Classico crushed (R.I.P.), or Tomato Magic is the right flavor...with a buttery, funky mozzarella underneath to key it all.
The flavor profile of Johnny's is unique to any other pizza I've had. I can dig Varasano's passion for Johnny's.
Joe's on Carmine is close in cheese/sauce, but their dough is weak compared to This pizza.
Such as Grande?
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Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Craig's Johnny's Clone
« Reply #15 on: August 30, 2014, 09:04:16 PM »
Just more evidence that you are the best pizza make in America Craig.  I don't say that to feed your ego, and I don't think you are that type regardless, but it is something I truly believe.

Wow. Thanks! That really means a lot.
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, baker's yeast when we must, but always great pizza."  
Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Craig's Johnny's Clone
« Reply #16 on: August 30, 2014, 09:04:58 PM »
Agreed. As I've said, 6n1, Classico crushed (R.I.P.), or Tomato Magic is the right flavor...with a buttery, funky mozzarella underneath to key it all.
The flavor profile of Johnny's is unique to any other pizza I've had. I can dig Varasano's passion for Johnny's.
Joe's on Carmine is close in cheese/sauce, but their dough is weak compared to This pizza.

I'll get into town next week and see if I can find a better mozz.
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, baker's yeast when we must, but always great pizza."  
Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Craig's Johnny's Clone
« Reply #17 on: August 30, 2014, 09:06:55 PM »
Nice write up and good looking pie C.  :chef:

I notice you answered your own question once posed to me about sacrificing an upturned slice for photogenic sake.  >:D
Flip this style of pie slice back over within the 5 sec. rule an it still eats like brand new money, eh?  :)

Wonder how sliced Grande WM would be on this.....or maybe Tom`s Oaxaca?

No slices were wasted in the documenting of this pizza  :-D

Since this was really just an experiment, I knew one slice was going to get flipped for pictures. I had already prepared myself.  ;D
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, baker's yeast when we must, but always great pizza."  
Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Craig's Johnny's Clone
« Reply #18 on: August 30, 2014, 09:08:10 PM »
Craig,
That is amazing. To say you do nothing half-assed would be an understatement.  That's very impressive. Especially having read over the past few days from the time frame and the genesis of your decision to try it, to actual execution of the plan. Very well done. I'm jealous of your mind and your skill (again!)
Cheers,
Don

Thanks to Mmmph. His work saved me a ton of time.
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, baker's yeast when we must, but always great pizza."  
Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Craig's Johnny's Clone
« Reply #19 on: August 30, 2014, 09:09:13 PM »
Don pretty much nailed it. WOW - that looks PDG (pretty darn good)!

Craig,

Your Johnny's clone looks delicious!

Norma

Thank you both!
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, baker's yeast when we must, but always great pizza."  
Craig's Neapolitan Garage

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