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Author Topic: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO  (Read 132609 times)

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Offline schold

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Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
« Reply #60 on: February 04, 2015, 11:07:41 AM »
Unfortunately it happens often, me too many times using the same amount of yeast, the same internal temperature, the results can still change.
I can say with certainty that much difference in the end product comes from how
is kneaded, how you stringers.  :chef:

The same goes for me... With my new, supercool Ebay-bought drug dealer scale (which I learned about from sub), I believe my dough making process has become better controlled and more consistent. Recently, however, I did make a few doughs which didn't exhibit much oven spring and which were overly elastic and sticky. My working theory is that this was the result of poor gluten formation, and as I don't own a KitchenAid or similar machine, I have started experimenting with autolysis.

Now I mix the tipo 00-flour with all the water (rt) and let it stand for 1.5 hours before placing the dough in the refrigerator for another hour. I then take it back out and add dry yeast, salt and the remaining flour (a strong Norwegian spring wheat flour which is also malted) and mix well.  Then a couple of times back into the fridge, relax, knead and back in, until the dough is nice and smooth. I think I get very good gluten formation, a dough which appears to retain gas well, the cornicione puffs up nicely and the texture is good.

In light of all this - when I looked at Don Luigi's somewhat flat cornicione, I immediately thought that it might be due to poor gluten formation.

« Last Edit: February 04, 2015, 12:22:45 PM by schold »
Cooking is not a recipe, it's a philosophy - unless it's pastry, then it's chemistry.

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Offline Don Luigi

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Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
« Reply #61 on: February 04, 2015, 12:22:47 PM »
I don't see the slightly flatter rim as a problem - see Da Michele i.e.It was still airy enough and not flat and lifeless as the under-fermented pie I posted on the first page. My old setup with not so heat-intensive oven (g3 Ferrari Clone) and baker's yeast always produced rims that were too puffy for my preference and visually not so beautiful.
I am doing 3-4 stretch and fold sessions with 15 Minutes rest in between and my dough is really smooth.
I am just relatively new to the sourdough starter thing (this was my 3rd or 4th batch with SD) and need to get more consistent with it, but the taste of these sourdough pies is just worth the extra learning curve.
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Offline corkd

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Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
« Reply #62 on: February 05, 2015, 08:06:18 AM »
BTW - I have some leftovers - what's the best way to re-heat them? I mean I love cold pizza as well but I'd like to reheat them for lunch. How do you guys do it?
I heat my leftover caputo slices in a dry nonstick pan on the stovetop. Those are fantastic looking pies. I'm really impressed with what you and others are doing with the PP oven.

Offline Don Luigi

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Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
« Reply #63 on: February 06, 2015, 07:49:27 AM »
Thanks for the tip and the nice words, corkd!
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Offline Don Luigi

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Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
« Reply #64 on: February 10, 2015, 02:10:38 PM »
New Pies today! These were sourdough 48 hour fermentation. Caputo Pizeria, 62.5% Hydration/2.7% Salt/2.5% SF Starter. Craig's formular more or less. A little bit more starter and San Francisco culture instead of Ischia. This time I got the starter in its prime and fermentation was pretty much perfect. I had to put the dough balls into the cellar this morning at roughly 54°F because they were already quite well risen -  so next time I am doing Craig's formular with 1.7% - 2% Starter at 65°F.
But these were surely my best tasting, softest and lightest pies so far. The Mushroom/Mozzarella di Buffalo with italian truffle oil was out of this world.  Soft like a cloud, creamy, melting in your mouth - I was really happy eating it. This was also the only pie that baked in less than 60 seconds today. I really look forward to warmer days, when I can have an eye on the oven while preparing the pizza instead of running in/out (preparing in the house, baking outside) all the time hoping when I get out to the oven I have all parameters "dialed in" correctly. But it's so much fun baking with fire and sour dough. I am loving it!
« Last Edit: February 11, 2015, 03:23:51 AM by Don Luigi »
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Offline JD

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Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
« Reply #65 on: February 10, 2015, 02:20:09 PM »
Beautiful Don, you have this oven figured out. I took a step backward this weekend  >:( 

What was your dough weight/diameter? Is there any possibility of you shooting a video in the future?
JD's NY Style
JD's Neapolitan using my Pizza Party WFO

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Offline aspendos

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Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
« Reply #66 on: February 10, 2015, 03:02:36 PM »
Very nice Don. Which temperature did you bake?

Offline schold

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Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
« Reply #67 on: February 10, 2015, 04:56:03 PM »
Lookin' sweet, Don, but where is the one with onions and bell peppers?
Cooking is not a recipe, it's a philosophy - unless it's pastry, then it's chemistry.

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Offline Don Luigi

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Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
« Reply #68 on: February 11, 2015, 02:07:53 AM »
Beautiful Don, you have this oven figured out. I took a step backward this weekend  >:( 

What was your dough weight/diameter? Is there any possibility of you shooting a video in the future?

Thanks JD! Doughballs were 230-250 gr. diameter ranging from approximately 28cm to 32cm (the second Margherita was the biggest Pizza of the evening). Really like 250gr.
Yeah, I will do a video as soon as the wheather's better here in Germany. 1 Month ahead maybe.
Yesterday I noticed again: The best pies for me come out of the oven with the front thermometer at just a hint above 400C and huge rolling flames that hover across the dome inside the oven. Then baking on the stone in the back right corner for about 45 seconds (maybe one turn involved) and then lift the pie for doming another 5-10 seconds.
What happened JD, why you made a step back?
« Last Edit: February 11, 2015, 02:47:22 AM by Don Luigi »
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Offline Don Luigi

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Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
« Reply #69 on: February 11, 2015, 02:11:20 AM »

Very nice Don. Which temperature did you bake?

Thanks aspendos! I baked them at about 480-500C on the stone. The Marinara was less - maybe 450. Air Temperature in the oven is hard to say. Depends on how much flame I got going on. But the oven bakes beautiful pies with the deck at 480 and the right amount of flames rolling across its top.
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Offline Don Luigi

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Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
« Reply #70 on: February 11, 2015, 02:21:16 AM »

Lookin' sweet, Don, but where is the one with onions and bell peppers?

Thanks Schold! I actually tried the onion/bellpepper Pie yesterday in a slight variation. I added some super fine cubes of italian salami (not much) and some chili oil post bake. I loved it!! Unfortunately I had some problems during launching the pie and so it was kind of the ugly duckling of the evening. But the topping (with or without the variation) is really good. The slight sourness of the bellpepper goes very well with the sweetness of the onions. Adding the umami of the salami and the heat of the chili oil rounds it off nicely too! I guess it will become a regular!
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Offline JD

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Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
« Reply #71 on: February 11, 2015, 12:17:59 PM »
Thanks JD! Doughballs were 230-250 gr. diameter ranging from approximately 28cm to 32cm (the second Margherita was the biggest Pizza of the evening). Really like 250gr.
Yeah, I will do a video as soon as the wheather's better here in Germany. 1 Month ahead maybe.
Yesterday I noticed again: The best pies for me come out of the oven with the front thermometer at just a hint above 400C and huge rolling flames that hover across the dome inside the oven. Then baking on the stone in the back right corner for about 45 seconds (maybe one turn involved) and then lift the pie for doming another 5-10 seconds.
What happened JD, why you made a step back?

I had to take a long phone call while it was heating up so I over-heated it again. I'm pulling pies off the deck at 45s and it's still too burnt, but deck temps were low to mid 900's (480C+). When I add wood to get the rolling flames like you say, it just continues heating so I may be mid 900's by the time I launch.

Also, I used 60.5% hydration and it wasn't as tender as the 63% from last week. I'm going to bump it to 61.5% next time, and try to keep the deck temp down.

One thing I did learn was keeping the door off for the entire bake actually helped keep a nice rolling flame across the ceiling. I don't think it's necessary to keep the door on for bake, what do you think? I also made one side of my pizza turning peel round instead of square with rounded edge, which helped a lot with turning the pizza.
JD's NY Style
JD's Neapolitan using my Pizza Party WFO

Experience cannot be taught.

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Offline Don Luigi

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Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
« Reply #72 on: February 11, 2015, 12:48:24 PM »
Ahh, I see. The Oven surely needs a workflow and attention - no phone calls allowed :-)!
I think lowering the time you make the fire in the center of the oven might help (i need to try this too - i had to be super attentive not to burn the bottoms) and baking closer to the door (depending on position this can make 50C difference) - with the door on. I never tried with the door off but I found a position of the door which gives a great air flow and a raging fire. I have the fire on the left side - on this side the door is fully closed, on the opposite of the fire (right side) I leave a small gap of maybe 1-2cm. You will find the right position by watching the flames. The door sits in slightly aslant.
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Offline JD

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Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
« Reply #73 on: February 11, 2015, 01:13:04 PM »
Ahh, I see. The Oven surely needs a workflow and attention - no phone calls allowed :-)!
I think lowering the time you make the fire in the center of the oven might help (i need to try this too - i had to be super attentive not to burn the bottoms) and baking closer to the door (depending on position this can make 50C difference) - with the door on. I never tried with the door off but I found a position of the door which gives a great air flow and a raging fire. I have the fire on the left side - on this side the door is fully closed, on the opposite of the fire (right side) I leave a small gap of maybe 1-2cm. You will find the right position by watching the flames. The door sits in slightly aslant.

You and I think very similar, I used to do this exact thing. Since I was working with too high temps recently, I didn't have time to put the door on and off and I ended up preferring keeping the door off compeltely.

That's a good suggestion about lowering the time of having the fire in the center, I do keep it there for at least 30-40 minutes. Thanks for the tip. I've been putting my fire on the right side recently. It may be an illusion but it feels like I have way more room to work with, and it seems ergonomically correct since I'm right handed.  I wonder if there is a preference with other WFO users?
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JD's Neapolitan using my Pizza Party WFO

Experience cannot be taught.

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Offline Sirius

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Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
« Reply #74 on: February 11, 2015, 03:55:59 PM »
I can't tell you about the PIZZA PARTY, havent got mine yet. But the gross of ovens I saw had the fire on the left side.

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Offline wolver

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Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
« Reply #75 on: February 11, 2015, 04:35:30 PM »
beautiful pizza Don!!! :drool: :drool:
JD and DON make a video: dough and your use, it maybe useful to me to learn from you or JD, you are excellet pizzamaker :chef:
(Recently i'm trying many bread)
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Offline JD

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Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
« Reply #76 on: February 11, 2015, 05:51:14 PM »
beautiful pizza Don!!! :drool: :drool:
JD and DON make a video: dough and your use, it maybe useful to me to learn from you or JD, you are excellet pizzamaker :chef:
(Recently i'm trying many bread)

Thanks, but I have way more work to do before I even think about making a video.
JD's NY Style
JD's Neapolitan using my Pizza Party WFO

Experience cannot be taught.

-Josh

Offline Don Luigi

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Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
« Reply #77 on: February 12, 2015, 01:47:45 AM »
Hey JD,  you're very modest but it was your pizza (amongst a few other things) that made me want that oven!
« Last Edit: February 12, 2015, 02:45:50 AM by Don Luigi »
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Offline Simone

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Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
« Reply #78 on: February 14, 2015, 11:48:05 AM »
Excellent pizzas Markus! :chef:

Offline SAUZER.ITALY

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Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
« Reply #79 on: February 15, 2015, 03:20:34 AM »
Very nice pizza Don Luigi  :chef: i like all !!!  ^^^

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