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Author Topic: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO  (Read 98773 times)

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Offline Don Luigi

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Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
« Reply #80 on: February 18, 2015, 03:06:01 PM »
Weekly Pizza Update!
Not so satisfied today. Neither dough nor fire managment were optimal. My last pies were definitely better. Got some burned bottoms too - argghh. Is it possible my deck becomes more conductive with time? Simone you read this? I measured 538C on the deck today right before launch  - too much. Too long pre-heat I guess. So I needed to let the oven cool down again.
Also I went with 2% Starter, 48 Hour, 65F (Build a proofing box!) and 63% Hydration Formula but I am pretty sure the dough was too wet. Very hard to handle. It rose almost only by flattening out which resulted in poor oven spring. The Bubble structure on the bottom looked kinda pefect but I am pretty sure I measured the water content wrong and the dough was in reality something like 68-70% Hyrdation. It felt super wet, very hard to handle. >:( Also, since Ed Wood/Sourdo had some problems shipping my Ischia Culture (I had to re-order and hope it will finally arrive soon) I am still using the San Francisco starter and I really think it lacks a little bit of oven spring/rise when I use it with less than about 4%. Also the taste was borderline tangy today. A little too much to be honest.
Anyhow, to make things worse, I thought it was a cool idea to make a couple of photos with this hipster camera app for the iphone...well, I had better ideas already, I must say. But I blame it today on a really stressful day. Wife and two kids are ill and I didn't have my mind set totally on Pizza today - which is what it needs. Full attention to detail...
« Last Edit: February 18, 2015, 03:51:15 PM by Don Luigi »
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Offline JD

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Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
« Reply #81 on: February 18, 2015, 03:21:37 PM »
I'd be happy with those Don. Sounds like your dough may have been over-proofed by your explanation (tangy & feeling wetter than usual).
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Offline Don Luigi

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Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
« Reply #82 on: February 19, 2015, 05:13:23 AM »
JD I'd agree that the dough was over-proofed if I wasn't so damn sure that it was not. Look at the bubbles in the first pic...I always go by the look of the bubbles a la Craig and I am pretty sure I was still in the "green zone". Those pies were surely eatable - just not another step forward...
« Last Edit: February 19, 2015, 07:08:24 AM by Don Luigi »
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Offline SAUZER.ITALY

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Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
« Reply #83 on: February 19, 2015, 06:13:33 AM »
Hi Don !! do not worry, occasionally have some small problems with the dough and oven are part of the game ..  8)
Surely overheat an oven door to an excess of heat in the stalls risk of burning the bottom of the pizza.
For the rest, the hydration with too high a cooking too fast does not lead to benefits as it does not have the time necessary to eliminate the water inside the pizza.
Your result has been good  :chef:

Offline Don Luigi

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Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
« Reply #84 on: February 20, 2015, 04:47:04 AM »
At last! It's already in activation process....
Excuse the dirty finger nail
« Last Edit: February 20, 2015, 05:44:00 AM by Don Luigi »
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Offline Don Luigi

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Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
« Reply #85 on: February 23, 2015, 05:09:08 PM »
Bubbling its way to the stars...
My ischia culture is fully active since today and my first ischia dough in the making for tomorrow.
62, 2.7, 4.0S [email protected]
Really eager for the bake tomorrow...I can already say now that the ischia has at least double the rising power of my SF sourdough starter...
BTW I am planning on keeping this culture for the weekly bake on the counter instead of in the fridge. Do you guys who keep their culture on the counter at room temp have the container air tight sealed  (have the rubber band around the lid, or screwed the lid on tightly) or do you have the lid just loosely on the container? Does it matter?
« Last Edit: February 23, 2015, 05:14:42 PM by Don Luigi »
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Offline Don Luigi

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Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
« Reply #86 on: February 24, 2015, 02:04:11 PM »
First Ischia Bake! Positive and negative things.

Let's start with the negative:  I had the same problem as on my last bake with dough-balls flattening out like crazy and a 62% Hydration dough feeling like 70%. No rise to the top at all - only flattening, ultra wet dough that is super hard top handle. Caputo Pizzeria Flour. I am starting to think I am storing the flour in a wrong way. I am storing in 3 Liter Plastic Zip Lock Bags filled with ca. 1.5KG of flour. Any ideas anyone? It's driving me crazy! It was so bad today I had to-re-ball one dough ball which resulted in a much more heavy handed not as soft and light Pizza. It was eatable though to my suprise and I could practive more the baking the oven.
Also slightly negative: I didn't catch the Ischia culture in its absolute prime. I think I was a little to0 early using it for baking (but I couldn't wait :angel:) and think it is today, after two feedings more, finally fully active! Next bake will show!

Positive: The first Margherita today was probably my best ever. Light-spirited, creamy, tender. I know why the Ischia Culture is so highly regarded. Not tangy at all but with a creaminess and complexity - wow!

I tried a topping variation I really liked. Mushrooms, Red Onions, Ricotta, Mozzarella Di Bufala, german "Schinkenspeck" (cut into very fine pieces), fresh Black Pepper and Pecorino Romana. It was delicious. Like a french/german "Flammkuchen" but lighter, finer and less heavy handed in taste.

I think I know really how to handle the baking in the oven now. Not too long pre-heating. For me it was 35-40 Minutes pre-heating on the first margherita and the bottom at around 460-480C - maybe less. But I had a huge, hovering fire for the top heat. Bake was really balanced on this one. Around 60 seconds, short doming.

« Last Edit: February 24, 2015, 02:05:55 PM by Don Luigi »
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Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
« Reply #87 on: February 24, 2015, 02:12:59 PM »
Another thread with some great looking pies I've somehow missed. Nicely done.

"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, baker's yeast when we must, but always great pizza."  
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Offline JD

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Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
« Reply #88 on: February 24, 2015, 02:24:23 PM »
First Ischia Bake! Positive and negative things.

Let's start with the negative:  I had the same problem as on my last bake with dough-balls flattening out like crazy and a 62% Hydration dough feeling like 70%. No rise to the top at all - only flattening, ultra wet dough that is super hard top handle. Caputo Pizzeria Flour. I am starting to think I am storing the flour in a wrong way. I am storing in 3 Liter Plastic Zip Lock Bags filled with ca. 1.5KG of flour. Any ideas anyone? It's driving me crazy! It was so bad today I had to-re-ball one dough ball which resulted in a much more heavy handed not as soft and light Pizza. It was eatable though to my suprise and I could practive more the baking the oven.
Also slightly negative: I didn't catch the Ischia culture in its absolute prime. I think I was a little to0 early using it for baking (but I couldn't wait :angel:) and think it is today, after two feedings more, finally fully active! Next bake will show!

Positive: The first Margherita today was probably my best ever. Light-spirited, creamy, tender. I know why the Ischia Culture is so highly regarded. Not tangy at all but with a creaminess and complexity - wow!

I tried a topping variation I really liked. Mushrooms, Red Onions, Ricotta, Mozzarella Di Bufala, german "Schinkenspeck" (cut into very fine pieces), fresh Black Pepper and Pecorino Romana. It was delicious. Like a french/german "Flammkuchen" but lighter, finer and less heavy handed in taste.

I think I know really how to handle the baking in the oven now. Not too long pre-heating. For me it was 35-40 Minutes pre-heating on the first margherita and the bottom at around 460-480C - maybe less. But I had a huge, hovering fire for the top heat. Bake was really balanced on this one. Around 60 seconds, short doming.


Don, that first margarita is gorgeous! Way to set the bar nice and high.

The inevitable post-bake questions:
1) Do you use the fire shield?
2) Where do you measure the floor temp (Front/middle/back)

Regarding your wet dough, I'm not sure I would draw any conclusions until you know you had proper fermentation. Was it another 48hr ferment? Do you bulk/ball or only ball?
JD's NY Style
JD's Neapolitan using my Pizza Party WFO

You cannot teach experience.

-Josh

Offline Don Luigi

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Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
« Reply #89 on: February 24, 2015, 03:25:50 PM »
Thanks Craig!
JD, thanks alot, man! That margherita surely was my best Pie up until now!
1) Yeah, used the fire shield but didn't use the fire grate thing. I think I like it better without!
2) I measured 425C in the middle of the oven (so it was a bit more in the back) put another fore arm sized piece of wood on, went inside, prepared the pie. When I came back to the oven I didn't measure again, but I had a huge fire rolling across the dome. I think it was the perfect balance of top and bottom heat on that bake...
I bulk and ball ferment. Half and half approximately. This was 24 hours, 4% Starter (maybe not fully active yet). Again dough seemed rather under -proofed than over -proofed. It was incredible wet!
« Last Edit: February 24, 2015, 03:28:19 PM by Don Luigi »
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Offline gsans

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Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
« Reply #90 on: February 24, 2015, 04:19:46 PM »
Another beautiful pies here ;) Great job Don !

Offline JD

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Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
« Reply #91 on: February 24, 2015, 04:35:43 PM »
Have you ever tried without the shield? I've done both and I'm not sure which way I like better yet. I get more immediate blistering without the shield but I also tend to get too much color on my cornice.  How long did that forearm sized log keep a large fire? This is what I was hoping to achieve with a "medium" sized log in my previous post.

There are a hundred reasons why your dough may feel wet, and I'm sure you know them all already. What calculator are you using?
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Offline Don Luigi

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Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
« Reply #92 on: February 25, 2015, 01:58:51 AM »

Another beautiful pies here ;) Great job Don !
Thank you Greg!
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Offline Don Luigi

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Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
« Reply #93 on: February 25, 2015, 02:13:47 AM »
Have you ever tried without the shield? I've done both and I'm not sure which way I like better yet. I get more immediate blistering without the shield but I also tend to get too much color on my cornice.  How long did that forearm sized log keep a large fire? This is what I was hoping to achieve with a "medium" sized log in my previous post.

There are a hundred reasons why your dough may feel wet, and I'm sure you know them all already. What calculator are you using?

I'll give the bake without the shield a try once I've sorted my wet dough problem. I imagine it giving a more intense color to the crust. How is it handling wise? No wood pieces on your pizza ?
As for the wet dough. I'll do another test batch this weekend or such to check what it is. Maybe it's the new dough trays? I am reading alot about industrial plasticizers in cheaper plastic ware..I don't know...the calculator I am using is fine. It's this one :
http://dsissitka.webfactional.com
That forearm sized log gives enough flame/top heat for two bakes (with prep and a slice or two of Pizza in between),  with the second bake I am putting on smaller bark pieces maybe depending on how the flames look. I think it's important to note that the beech wood I am using is very dry and gives intense heat also in my living room wood stove compared to a lot of other wood  I am using (I am also cutting wood myself, but that's mostly pine and fir).
« Last Edit: February 25, 2015, 01:38:01 PM by Don Luigi »
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Offline JD

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Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
« Reply #94 on: February 25, 2015, 02:47:36 PM »
I'll give the bake without the shield a try once I've sorted my wet dough problem. I imagine it giving a more intense color to the crust. How is it handling wise? No wood pieces on your pizza ?
As for the wet dough. I'll do another test batch this weekend or such to check what it is. Maybe it's the new dough trays? I am reading alot about industrial plasticizers in cheaper plastic ware..I don't know...the calculator I am using is fine. It's this one :
http://dsissitka.webfactional.com
That forearm sized log gives enough flame/top heat for two bakes (with prep and a slice or two of Pizza in between),  with the second bake I am putting on smaller bark pieces maybe depending on how the flames look. I think it's important to note that the beech wood I am using is very dry and gives intense heat also in my living room wood stove compared to a lot of other wood  I am using (I am also cutting wood myself, but that's mostly pine and fir).

So far I haven't had any issues with wood/ash on my pizza. I just got a smaller shield to test with, I think the one provided by Pizza Party may be too tall but your results are hard to argue with.

It may be a little while before I make NP again, but I will test the larger piece of wood + some lump charcoal, along with my new shield.

Regarding the wet dough, I'm sure you'll figure it out soon. Let us know what it turned out to be.





 
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JD's Neapolitan using my Pizza Party WFO

You cannot teach experience.

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Offline Ben Holiday

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Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
« Reply #95 on: February 26, 2015, 04:55:06 PM »
Absolutely great looking Pies Markus! :chef:

I can't wait for our next Pizza Session to come.
And i am also curious about the Ischia  SD.


Offline Don Luigi

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Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
« Reply #96 on: March 01, 2015, 02:04:34 PM »
Guys, I think I hit the sweetspot today! Both bake and fermentation went really well this time and I had the best Pizza so far. I am VERY happy with the results. I also solved my "wet-dough-problem" I think it was due to under-fermentation. This time fermentation went really well. Formular was 62%/2.7%Salt/5%Ischia Culture/26 Hour Ferment. Fermented at 66F in Bulk for 16 hours, and at 72F in Balls for 10 Hours. Very constant temperature due to my proofing box, heated by a dimmable light bulb (to be replaced in summer by ice/cooling packs).
Like I said I am super happy today and let some pics to the talking...
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Online schold

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Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
« Reply #97 on: March 01, 2015, 02:22:20 PM »
Congratulations! Best so far. You know it yourself  :)
Cooking is not a recipe, it's a philosophy - unless it's pastry, then it's chemistry.

- Marco Pierre White

Offline JD

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Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
« Reply #98 on: March 01, 2015, 02:45:56 PM »
Perfect!!! Tell me about your fire management Don, I need to replicate it.
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Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Neapolitan Pizza with Pizza Party WFO
« Reply #99 on: March 01, 2015, 03:07:08 PM »
Pretty.
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, baker's yeast when we must, but always great pizza."  
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