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Author Topic: Some dough formulas from General Mills.  (Read 2771 times)

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Offline Bisquick

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Some dough formulas from General Mills.
« on: February 18, 2015, 12:27:40 AM »
Don't know how reliable these are. The amount of oil is missing from the Basic Pan Style Dough. It's supposed to be 6%. The oil is mentioned in the instructions but for some reason it's missing in the ingredient list. I know it's 6% because I copied these formulas some time ago but really haven't tried them. They are here at http://www.generalmillscf.com/Home/industries/pizzeria/support-tool-categories/technical-support/dough-formulas
I think the Neapolitan is the most appetizing.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2015, 12:42:56 AM by Bisquick »

Offline PrimeRib

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Re: Some dough formulas from General Mills.
« Reply #1 on: February 18, 2015, 02:00:06 PM »
Thanks for posting.  If you click on the "get tool" button under the recipe, a pdf containing the complete recipe and directions will pop up.  Attached is the recipe for the basic pan style showing the oil.   Upon a quick review, all the recipes look good for a one size fits all approach.  Some modifications might need to be made for home users.  For example, home users often have trouble adding oil after all the other ingredients are already incorporated.  Also, each recipe uses a particular brand of General Mills flour.  Below is my take on what can be substituted for the General Mills flour suggested in each recipe:

Pan Style (GM Full Strength or GM Superlative) – 12.6% protein (i.e., bread flour)

Neapolitan (GM Neapolitan) – 00 pizza flour

NY (GM All Trumps) – 14%+ high protein flour

Deep Dish (GM King Wheat) – 11.1% protein (i.e., all-purpose flour)

51% White Whole Wheat (GM All Trumps and White Whole Wheat) - 14%+ high protein flour and any white whole wheat flour

Offline sodface

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Re: Some dough formulas from General Mills.
« Reply #2 on: September 29, 2016, 08:31:17 PM »
Here is a link to a pdf postcard version of the flour types and dough formulations:

GM Flour Postcards PDF
Carl

Offline invertedisdead

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Re: Some dough formulas from General Mills.
« Reply #3 on: September 29, 2016, 08:54:18 PM »
Their NY formula

100% All Trumps
56% Water
2% Salt
1.5% Sugar
4% Oil
.75% Yeast
the proof is in the pizza

Offline mitchjg

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Re: Some dough formulas from General Mills.
« Reply #4 on: September 29, 2016, 09:25:37 PM »
Their NY formula

100% All Trumps
56% Water
2% Salt
1.5% Sugar
4% Oil
.75% Yeast

What is the thickness factor??   :-D
Mitch

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Offline PelletPizzaJoe

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Re: Some dough formulas from General Mills.
« Reply #5 on: September 29, 2016, 09:49:31 PM »
Interesting to me is that in the postcard formulations , all but the Neapolitan style have hydration levels in the mid 50% area...

All the pizzas I've been making with All Trumps have been hydrated to approximately 61%. 

Online Pete-zza

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Re: Some dough formulas from General Mills.
« Reply #6 on: September 29, 2016, 09:55:04 PM »
All the pizzas I've been making with All Trumps have been hydrated to approximately 61%.
PelletPizzaJoe,

Are you using any oil in your dough?

Peter

Offline sodface

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Re: Some dough formulas from General Mills.
« Reply #7 on: September 29, 2016, 10:24:57 PM »
This seems like a nice doc too, this been posted here before?

[ Anonymized URL Blocked ]
Carl

Online Pete-zza

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Re: Some dough formulas from General Mills.
« Reply #8 on: September 29, 2016, 10:37:42 PM »
Carl,

This GM document seems to be a gateway to various aspects of pizza making:

http://www.generalmillscf.com/industries/pizzeria

Peter



Offline sodface

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Re: Some dough formulas from General Mills.
« Reply #9 on: September 29, 2016, 11:11:20 PM »
Here are some videos from GM's "doughminators", looks like they are a year or so old.  Guess I'll stop posting now as they probably have google where you live too  :-D

GM Pizza Videos
Carl

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Offline PelletPizzaJoe

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Re: Some dough formulas from General Mills.
« Reply #10 on: September 30, 2016, 07:57:07 AM »
PelletPizzaJoe,

Are you using any oil in your dough?

Peter

Lately I've been using around 1% oil, no more then 2%.   

 Typical  formulation is close to what  Andrew Bellucci says General Mills told him was a sort of standard NY style dough formulation. 100% flour, 58% water, 2% salt, 2% sugar, 1% oil, 0.5% IDY.  I sometimes vary these percentages slightly but in all honesty, I personally can't really tell much difference when any of these percentages change a little.  For me, the thing that I have found to help me the most, is dough management in terms of how long I let it ferment, how long I let it temper after refrigeration, and also in getting the crust opened up reasonably well.  I guess to some degree I've learned to adapt to subtle changes and do some of it by feel/sight. 

  As for hydration itself... for some reason I have just settled in around 61%.   

Online Pete-zza

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Re: Some dough formulas from General Mills.
« Reply #11 on: September 30, 2016, 09:56:35 AM »
Lately I've been using around 1% oil, no more then 2%.   

 Typical  formulation is close to what  Andrew Bellucci says General Mills told him was a sort of standard NY style dough formulation. 100% flour, 58% water, 2% salt, 2% sugar, 1% oil, 0.5% IDY.  I sometimes vary these percentages slightly but in all honesty, I personally can't really tell much difference when any of these percentages change a little.  For me, the thing that I have found to help me the most, is dough management in terms of how long I let it ferment, how long I let it temper after refrigeration, and also in getting the crust opened up reasonably well.  I guess to some degree I've learned to adapt to subtle changes and do some of it by feel/sight. 

  As for hydration itself... for some reason I have just settled in around 61%.
PelletPizzaJoe,

The reason I asked you about the oil is because oil has a "wetting" effect on the dough and the dough's viscosity. I call the combination of hydration and the amount of oil the "effective hydration" of the dough, for lack of a better description, and I try to have that combination about equal to the rated absorption value of the flour, although one can play around with both values to get the desired finished dough. I discuss the concept of effective hydration in the first paragraph of Reply 1394 at:

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=3940.msg172230#msg172230

Tom Lehmann also discusses the relationship of oil and hydration and how the value of one or the other can be changed in a post at the PMQ Think Tank at:

http://thinktank.pmq.com/threads/lehmann.6110/#post-38321

Now, if you look at the NY style dough formulation that Ryan posted, you will see that the water is 56% and the oil is 4%. So the total is 60%. The rated absorption value of the All Trumps flour is about 63%, give or take a few percent on an operational basis. But 60% would be a workable value. Also, although Ryan did not mention that the dough formulation indicates that the water is variable, the reason for indicating that the water is variable is because the absorption rate of flour can vary from crop to crop and also due to environmental factors such as its age, how it is stored, etc.

Peter


Offline invertedisdead

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Re: Some dough formulas from General Mills.
« Reply #12 on: September 30, 2016, 11:27:28 AM »
4% oil is about what some in the industry on here have said about NY slice shops. Members Arctic Pizza and CIZ28 come to mind. It's interesting only 2% oil in the cracker though, as those tend to be somewhat higher in oil on here.
the proof is in the pizza

Offline foreplease

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Re: Some dough formulas from General Mills.
« Reply #13 on: October 14, 2016, 08:14:17 AM »
Guess I'll stop posting now as they probably have google where you live too  :-D

That is really funny! All of the links in this thread have been good.
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Offline rparker

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Re: Some dough formulas from General Mills.
« Reply #14 on: October 15, 2016, 12:01:52 AM »
Their NY formula

100% All Trumps
56% Water
2% Salt
1.5% Sugar
4% Oil
.75% Yeast
That's really close to what I do. I'm trying to prove myself wrong about the oil with a batch this weekend, but it did not come together well without using it. I'll know in a day or two. But yes, been at 4% oil most of the time for almost a year.

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Offline sodface

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Re: Some dough formulas from General Mills.
« Reply #15 on: October 15, 2016, 09:22:01 AM »
That's really close to what I do. I'm trying to prove myself wrong about the oil with a batch this weekend, but it did not come together well without using it. I'll know in a day or two. But yes, been at 4% oil most of the time for almost a year.

I started doing the delayed oil add mentioned in these docs, mix everything but the oil for about a minute and then add the oil.  I mentioned this in the pic of the day thread, but, the delay in oil add, even after going back to my higher hydration dough formula (higher than these GM formulas, 61% + 3% oil) has really changed up my mix times in the Ankarsrum mixer with roller and scraper.  Along with actually doing some stretch tests throughout the mix, my mix times are now up in the 15 minute range, which is way longer than most on here I think, especially those mixing in a food processor.  Not really sure what to make of it.  I was only going about half of that before, ~8 minutes.

I need to research the forum a bit about this.  I'm thinking a longer mix might be more important for short (same day?) doughs as opposed to longer fermentation over a period of days.

//edit So I just went through several threads on mixing times, as well as watching a video Peter posted on the "egg test" and I guess maybe I'm not that far off with my recent longer mixes.  If anything I think I was under mixing before.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2016, 09:50:23 AM by sodface »
Carl

Offline rparker

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Re: Some dough formulas from General Mills.
« Reply #16 on: October 17, 2016, 06:59:10 AM »
I started doing the delayed oil add mentioned in these docs, mix everything but the oil for about a minute and then add the oil.  I mentioned this in the pic of the day thread, but, the delay in oil add, even after going back to my higher hydration dough formula (higher than these GM formulas, 61% + 3% oil) has really changed up my mix times in the Ankarsrum mixer with roller and scraper.  Along with actually doing some stretch tests throughout the mix, my mix times are now up in the 15 minute range, which is way longer than most on here I think, especially those mixing in a food processor.  Not really sure what to make of it.  I was only going about half of that before, ~8 minutes.

I need to research the forum a bit about this.  I'm thinking a longer mix might be more important for short (same day?) doughs as opposed to longer fermentation over a period of days.

//edit So I just went through several threads on mixing times, as well as watching a video Peter posted on the "egg test" and I guess maybe I'm not that far off with my recent longer mixes.  If anything I think I was under mixing before.
Carl,

I spent a long series of test batches last year doing various oil-adding times. I tested both amounts and timing. The one that worked well for me was the oil into the water first thing. However, I do have to perform a specific hydration technique where I rough combine everything with a big wooden spoon and let it rest for a few minutes before using the mixer. (I guess I don't have to do the rest, but my dough is much better when I do it.)

My recent no-oil test had poor results. Too tough to bite and chew. It never came together. It did have a NY Street Slice bottom crust layer to it that was admirable. The counter stretch was easy, too. Nice balance.

On the mixing times, I total 12 minutes of mechanical mixing now with my method. I was at 7. Then I finally grasped that there was a difference between what was an appearance of gluten strength and true gluten development and added a very low tension mix time at the end.

I've watched that video of the egg test and I do perform that sometimes to the best that I can tell from the low resolution. I probably need to watch it again.  I only do that test when I'm changing things up enough so that there might be a big difference.

Roy

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