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Offline 2stone

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Gustavsen wood grill (ved grill)
« on: February 19, 2015, 06:39:43 PM »
Hello every one!

I'll be introducing a new wood fired grill (it does pizza very well also) soon.
The best way i can describe it is "its a real game changer"
It gets up to temp fast, is economical to use, and does a whole bunch of stuff real real well.
Plus.... "IT IS WHOLE LOT OF FUN TO USE"

It became obvious that the wood had to be prepped first.

The wood + charcoal will do 4-5 pizzas (maybe more)
but itmust be prepped into the three sizes first.






regards
willard

« Last Edit: February 19, 2015, 06:49:55 PM by 2stone »

Offline 2stone

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Re: Gustavsen wood grill (ved grill)
« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2015, 08:52:37 PM »

HOW DOES WOOD FLAVOR REALLY GET INTO THE FOOD?

this is a quote from one of the leading wood / gas oven manufacturers

"We thought the food coming out of the oven had always been excellent and we had always cooked with wood – our assumption was that the taste must be linked.  However, our new gas ovens were telling a different story.  We asked, “How exactly does wood flavor get into the food?”  We realized that the only way to infuse food with wood flavor would be via direct contact – specifically with the smoke generated by the wood fire, similar to a smoker or wood grill.  Although our wood-fired ovens generate plenty of smoke, they differed in one key way – the food was never in direct contact with the smoke.  When food is on the hearth, the smoke rises above it and vents out of the oven.  Does that mean that the great flavor is a figment of our imagination? Not at all – it simply led us to believe that the flavor is not the result of wood, but of the stone itself, and the intensity of open flame."

The Gustavsen woodfired grill is designed specifically to envelope the food in smoke so the smoke flavors of the chosen wood fuel are genuinely infused.


Here is a list of the flavor / aroma   profiles of the various woods used for grilling, smoking and baking.

Acacia
These trees are in the same family as mesquite. When burned in a smoker, acacia wood has a flavor similar to mesquite but not quite as heavy. Acacia burns very hot and should be used sparingly.
Good with most meats, especially beef and most vegetables.

Alder
A sweet, musky smoke that is the traditional wood of the Northwest and pairs particularly well with salmon
Good with fish, pork, poultry, and light-meat game birds.

Almond
A nutty and sweet smoke flavor. Very similar to pecan
Good with all meats.

Apple
Probably the most used fruit smoke wood. The flavor is milder and sweeter than hickory. Ornamental apple trees like crab apple can be used as well.
Good with all meats.

Apricot
Great substitute for apple as it is also milder and sweeter than hickory.
Good with all meats.

Ash
Fast burner, light but distinctive smoke flavor.
Good with fish and red meats.

Bay
Medium floral smoke with hints of spice & cinnamon.
Good with most meats and veggies.

Beech
A mild much used wood like oak.
Good with meat and seafood.

Birch
Medium hard wood with a smoke flavor similar to maple.
Good with pork and poultry.

Blackberry
Much like the woods provided from fruit trees, the small diameter, thorny branches of the blackberry bush provide a slightly sweet and delicate flavor.
Good for grilling poultry and other meats, such as small game birds like grouse, pheasant, partridge, and quail.

Butternut
Strong smoke, like walnut, bitter when too much is used alone.
Good on red meats like beef, pork, venison and other game meats. Can easily overpower poultry.

Cherry
The second most used fruit wood. Slightly sweet fruity smoke that’s great with just about everything. It can blacken the skin of poultry making it look unappetizing, but will still taste great.  It’s an excellent candidate to mix with a lighter wood like apple or apricot to reduce the blackening.  What blackens the skin of chicken makes a great smoke ring. Ornamental cherry wood like double blossom cherry can be used as a substitute.
Good with all meats.

Chestnut
Slightly sweet, nutty smoke flavor.
Good with most meats.

Cottonwood
It is a softer wood than alder and very subtle in flavor. Use it for fuel but use some chunks of other woods (hickory, oak, pecan) for more flavor as it is extremely mild. Don’t use green cottonwood for smoking.
Good for all smoking, especially pork and ribs.

Crabapple
Is essentially interchangeable with apple.
Good with poultry, red meats, game and lamb.

Fig
Mild & fruity like mulberry.
Good with all meats.

Grapefruit
Produces a nice mild smoky flavor.
Excellent with beef, pork, fish and poultry.

Grapevines
Tart, aromatic, but can be a heavy flavor so don’t overdo it.
Use sparingly on poultry or lamb but otherwise if used in moderation is good with red meats, pork and game.

Guava
Flowery fruity taste.
Good for all meats,

Hickory
The most common hardwood used, even more so than apple and cherry. Sweet to strong, heavy bacon flavor.
Good for all smoking, particularly pork and ribs

Kiawe
Kiawe (pronounced key-ah-vey) is a wood that  is only found in Hawaii. Very hard to come by. The wood is dense with a dark thin bark. It is similar to mesquite with a sweet strong flavor
Good for beef, fish and poultry

Lemon
Medium smoke flavor with a hint of fruitiness.
Excellent with beef, pork and poultry.

Lilac
Very subtle with a hint of floral.
Excellent for smoking cheese. Good with, pork and poultry.

Maple
Mildly smoky, somewhat sweet flavor. Maple adds a sweet, subtle flavor that enhances the flavor of poultry and game birds, and outstanding for planking for those that don’t like cedar plank salmon.
Mates well with poultry, ham, cheese, small game birds, and vegetables. Wonderful for smoked turkey!

Mesquite
Strong earthy flavor. One of the most popular woods in the country, mesquite is a scrubby tree that grows wild in the Southwest. Sweeter and more delicate than hickory, it’s a perfect complement to richly flavored meats such as steak, duck or lamb. Burns hot and fast and it probably the strongest flavored wood.
Good with most meats, especially beef and most vegetables, but be careful as it can overpower.

Mulberry
A mild smoke with a sweet, tangy, blackberry-like flavor. Similar to apple
Good with Beef, poultry, game birds, pork (particularly ham).

Nectarine
The flavor is milder and sweeter than hickory.
Great on most white or pink meats, including chicken, turkey, pork and fish.

Oak
Most versatile of the hardwoods blending well with most meats. A mild smoke with no aftertaste. Oak gives food a beautiful smoked color. Red oak is believed to the best of the oak varieties.
Good with red meat, pork, fish and big game.

Olive
The smoke flavor is similar to mesquite, but distinctly lighter.
Delicious with poultry.

Orange
A tangy, citrus smoke. Medium smoke flavor with a hint of fruitiness. Orange gives food a golden color. Produces a nice mild smoky flavor.
Excellent with beef, pork and poultry.

Peach
Slightly sweet, woodsy flavor, milder and sweeter than hickory.  Peach is a bit redder than apple and produces a better smoke ring and is a little more flavorful.
Great on most white or pink meats, including chicken, turkey, pork and fish.

Pear
A nice subtle smoke flavor much like apple. Slightly sweet, woodsy flavor.  The smell is absolutely amazing. And just like ornamental apple and cherry, ornamental pear tree wood can be used like Bradford and Cleveland pears.
Good on Poultry, game birds and pork.

Pecan
Sweet and mild with a flavor similar to hickory but not as strong. Tasty with a subtle character. An all-around superior smoking wood. Try smoking with the nut shells as well. This is our preferred wood for Brisket.
Good for most things including poultry, beef, pork and cheese. Pecan is the best for that beautiful golden-brown turkey and we absolutely love it on brisket.

Persimmon
A strong, sweet, and dry smoke that is popular in restaurants as it is said the dryness of the smoke increases drink orders of patrons.
Excellent with beef and pork.

Pimento
Also referred to as Allspice, Jamaican Pepper, Myrtle Pepper, or Newspice. This wood adds a natural and somewhat peppery flavor that may also include flavors of several spices combined, such as cinnamon, cloves and nutmeg, similar to the flavors provided when allspice is used as a seasoning to enhance the flavor of various foods.
It is a common wood used in grilling Jamaican foods such as jerk chicken. Often used for grilling poultry and fish.

Plum
The flavor is milder and sweeter than hickory.
Good with most meats, great on most white or pink meats, including chicken, turkey, pork and fish.

Sassafras
A mild, musky, sweet smoke with a root beer aftertaste. Some say this is not a good candidate for smoking. Others love it.
Especially good on beef, pork and poultry.

Walnut
While pecan is hickory’s milder cousin, walnut is the strong one. Often mixed with lighter woods like almond, pear or apple. Intense and can become bitter if overused.
Good on red meats like Beef, Pork, Venison and other game meats. Can easily overpower poultry.

Other Woods:
Avocado, Carrotwood, Madrone, Manzanita, Hackberry, and willow. The ornamental varieties of fruit trees such as Bradford and Cleveland pear, double blossom cherry, crabapple, etc., are also suitable for smoking, and very much akin to their non ornamental flavors of apple, cherry or pear woods.

Wood that should not be used for grilling  / smoking:
DO NOT USE any wood from pine, fir, spruce, redwood (the conifer, not red oak), cedar, elm, eucalyptus, sycamore, liquid amber, cypress, elderberry, or sweet gum trees. Cooking salmon on a cedar plank is not the same as using chunks of cedar to smoke meat as the plank doesn’t inundate the fish with smoke for hours at a time.

Never use lumber scraps, either new or used. First, you cannot know for sure what kind of wood it is. Second, the wood may have been chemically treated. Third, you have no idea where the wood may have been or how it was used.

Never use any wood that has been painted or stained. Do not use wood scraps from a furniture manufacturer as this wood is often chemically treated.

Never use wood from old pallets. Many pallets are treated with chemicals that can be hazardous to your health and the pallet may have been used to carry chemicals or poison.

Avoid old wood that is covered with any mold or fungus or is now uber porous and light like balsa wood due to rotting.

The above information is from  http://grillinfools.com/blog/2009/04/01/smoke-wood-what-kind-is-best-well-it-depends/


regards
willard

 

Offline zwarbles

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Re: Gustavsen wood grill (ved grill)
« Reply #2 on: February 26, 2015, 06:49:56 AM »
Sounds intriguing. Will this be for indoors or outdoors?
Pat

Offline 2stone

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Re: Gustavsen wood grill (ved grill)
« Reply #3 on: February 27, 2015, 03:32:00 PM »
For outdoor use only.
It will be priced under $1000

I would be interested to know what some of the WFO
owners have found to be the best wood or wood they prefer.

Regards
Willard.

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Gustavsen wood grill (ved grill)
« Reply #4 on: February 27, 2015, 03:38:48 PM »
I would be interested to know what some of the WFO
owners have found to be the best wood or wood they prefer.

Whatever well seasoned hardwood you can get your hands on at a good price is best. For me, that almost always means post oak, but I don't think it makes a bit of difference what type it is when it comes to the home WFO. In a commercial operation, it might make sense to look at $/BTU. In no case is the "flavor" of the wood a factor.
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, baker's yeast when we must, but always great pizza."  
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Offline zwarbles

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Re: Gustavsen wood grill (ved grill)
« Reply #5 on: February 27, 2015, 05:17:46 PM »
For outdoor use only.
It will be priced under $1000

I would be interested to know what some of the WFO
owners have found to be the best wood or wood they prefer.

Regards
Willard.

Sounds very interesting.  How soon is soon? I'd like to know more about it before buying something else.
Pat

Offline mitchjg

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Re: Gustavsen wood grill (ved grill)
« Reply #6 on: February 27, 2015, 06:07:14 PM »
Hi Willard:

Some comments provided in the spirit of trying to be helpful:

The idea of focussing on different smoke woods in your device for pizza does not make a lot of sense.  Perhaps I do not understand or need to know more.   I agree with Craig that the choice of wood has much more to do with economics.  I buy wood that is as dry as i can get it at a good price.

The idea of splitting wood into different sizes with an axe if very unattractive to me and I would guess the same is true for many or most.  To have the yard property, equipment, and interest in taking an axe to wood to make an oven go will probably vastly diminish the customer base.   

You provided a lengthy description of the properties of smoking wood.  Fair enough.  As I have learned and in my opinion, that is all fine, true and good for smoking.  Not for grilling.  For smoking foods the right way, you need to have the wood smoldering at low temperatures and let all the volatile organic compounds (VOC) burn off - you want the "blue smoke" not the bellowing clouds of gray.  You do not want that stuff in your food and that is what happens when it burns initially, hot and fast.  So, I do not get how this works with pizza.  Can you tell us more?

I cannot imagine why one would want to smoke their bread, muffins or cake, etc.  Seems like it would taste kind of gross.  So smoking and baking seem off.

A marketing comment.  I have, on and off (as a former customer of yours and as a member of this forum) checked out your website to see what is going on.  It seems to be dying of neglect.  Only as an example, your blog link at the bottom of all of your posts is dead.   If you are still in the business of selling 2stones, it does not really look that way from the outside looking in.

Best of luck on your new venture.  Let us know more.
Mitch

“We hate math,” says 4 in 10 – a majority of Americans

Offline 2stone

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Re: Gustavsen wood grill (ved grill)
« Reply #7 on: February 27, 2015, 09:40:32 PM »
Well............

Craig is having a lot of fun. (I happened upon your website the other day, and your pizzas are glorious to say the least)
Why is Craig and Bill and all the other guys with woodfired ovens having fun? Because "fire" is fun.....that's all there is to it.
I'm not saying gas is bad! I'm saying fire is fun.......Everyone is a little pyromaniac at heart, well I am anyway.

A couple weeks ago i did a prototype run of a new Large municipal firepit I've been working on.
today while i was building the Inferno going to Blackstone / and on to China so you all can get a good deal on a good oven, i warmed my feet at another oven....Now I'm sitting in front of a fire at the new design studio test kitchen (in progress)......I'm in front of a fire again!
.....I love fire....what can I say?!

Not to digress back to Mussolini and Ethiopia, (the reason I got into Pizza in the first place.) As a kid I would sit around watching everyone in Ethiopia cook and bake in the front yard over open fire (50% of the world still cooks meals over open fire),.... they don't use big logs like we do, but small stuff fed as needed. My goal has always been to get a wood fired oven up to speed in 20 min and cook five pizzas with just one reg. size chunk of wood. To do that it has to be cut up. I love chopping wood, maybe because it costs $1.00 for what I would pay $17.00 in wood chunks at Lowes Home Depot.

I have sold most of the rights of the 2stone to Blackstone....don't worry I'm not rich. I have a new Brick 2stone waiting for UL AGA NFS approval so haven't done much with that. I'm doing what i've done for 30 years...developing new products. Sorry i looks like i fell off the face of the earth. I've been sick.....so there you have it.

There are 1000"s of  2stone / Blackstones out there now and they had there beginnings here on the forum 7-8 years ago. The 2stone and Little Black Egg
have spawned a whole bunch of new products, and are a testament to what can happen when Steve and the hardworking moderators run a good forum.

I have built tons of woodburning prototypes, but until recently was never satisfied with any of them. I have had a real breakthrough lately, so its time to take the wraps off. As you mentioned I suspected wood was chosen mainly for the BTU's... however the Gustavsen Woodfired Grill is a three in one product....Oven / Grill / Firepit. It also utilizes smoke in a different way than a traditional WFO so the verdict is out on wood type virtues for baking. For grilling they are there.

But.... I do love fire, and completely get it!

regards
wg





« Last Edit: February 28, 2015, 09:41:23 AM by 2stone »

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Gustavsen wood grill (ved grill)
« Reply #8 on: February 27, 2015, 10:13:08 PM »
I agree the choice of wood can matter when grilling. I almost always grill meat over an open flame, and I have two types of wood readily available: pecan and mesquite. There is a very noticeable difference in flavor between meat grilled over one or the other, and if you've seen pictures of my steaks, you know I don't have the meat on the grill all that long.
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, baker's yeast when we must, but always great pizza."  
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Offline 2stone

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Re: Gustavsen wood grill (ved grill)
« Reply #9 on: March 02, 2015, 12:20:28 PM »
Mitch,

Thank you for your comments.

I apologize for the disarray with blogs and websites. I have been working on setting up a new platform that incorporates everything in one, where i can run a webstore and a couple of blogs in one place.
2stone has been copied a lot. I have gotten a lot of emails from forum members informing me and wondering what i plan to do. The 2stone is proprietary with two patents and now is licensed exclusively with Blackstone. It is up to them to pursue the infringements.
I have been prototyping a woodfired oven for a long time, and finally have an awesome product. As for people cutting wood, you are probably right. there are some people who want to buy everything complete. I plan on selling the different woods cut to my specifications for our area. We are in the fruit belt and have a lot of apple, cherry, peach, oak, maple and ash.
My restaurant was really successful for the six months that I ran it. (If you want to start one plan on long, long hrs!!)I am now taking what i learned and incorporating it into a new and better place. My wood fired oven is non traditional, designed to do several things well. i hope to run the new place with them.
I did some batches of pizza and roasted coffee this weekend and the wood flavor is noticeable.....more noticeable than with a conventional WFO.
I used apple and could tell it was wood / apple......not overpowering though.

Craig, that is good to know. I tried apple wood and people could taste it was wood fired and smell the apple. (that's what they told me!) Maybe I can make it to your next summit, we'll see.

Zwarbles,....unique name! should be ready in a week or two, though I have already taken some orders.

regards
wg

Woodfired coffee and the ceiling of the new Restaurant / Test kitchen
« Last Edit: March 02, 2015, 12:23:18 PM by 2stone »

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Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Gustavsen wood grill (ved grill)
« Reply #10 on: March 02, 2015, 01:40:12 PM »
I've used apple for smoking and really like it - particularly for pork, but I can't say I ever tasted or smelled apple in the finished product.
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Offline spacetrucker

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Re: Gustavsen wood grill (ved grill)
« Reply #11 on: March 02, 2015, 02:56:03 PM »
I grew up cooking on mesquite, (due to the south west Texas area) Mulberry, we never gave it a thought, treated it like trash wood... only recently have I seen it is used to cook on, another learned trait, everybody buys and eats tilapia... back in the day scuba diving on Amistad we shot and killed the tilapia, carp and alligator gar as "rough fish" legal in the day to take by spear gun, as the ole sayin goes live and learn... I have been wondering if anyone out there in the pizza oven fabrication arena has considered a wood pellet fired oven, I have two bbq pellet fired cookers one has no problems running 600 degrees the only improvement it needs in my opinion is some insulation to slow the pellet consumption and an extra 300 degrees. I have mentioned this to one fabricator however he is racing right now and promises a prototype in the future of coarse it will be stainless steel... :-\

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Gustavsen wood grill (ved grill)
« Reply #12 on: March 02, 2015, 03:13:41 PM »
I get the value of a pellet fired smoker in certain applications, but I don't see any benefits of a pellet WFO for pizza? Bread maybe.
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, baker's yeast when we must, but always great pizza."  
Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Offline JD

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Re: Gustavsen wood grill (ved grill)
« Reply #13 on: March 02, 2015, 03:35:23 PM »
I have been wondering if anyone out there in the pizza oven fabrication arena has considered a wood pellet fired oven

Yes, but a portable one that doesn't get much attention here: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=33099.0

If you're talking full-sized pizza oven, that would be interesting to see done.
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Offline deb415611

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Re: Gustavsen wood grill (ved grill)
« Reply #14 on: March 02, 2015, 03:47:15 PM »
I get the value of a pellet fired smoker in certain applications, but I don't see any benefits of a pellet WFO for pizza? Bread maybe.

none, you run into the same problem as a grill, no top heat. 

I love my pellet grill and have made some pizzas on it but it's not the right tool
Deb

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Offline 2stone

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Re: Gustavsen wood grill (ved grill)
« Reply #15 on: March 02, 2015, 05:09:36 PM »
Pellets vs wood

To me it's like pellets are on the verge of liquified wood.
The ambiance of a real fire is missing to me.

Here is what the fire looks like in the WFG

Offline spacetrucker

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Re: Gustavsen wood grill (ved grill)
« Reply #16 on: March 02, 2015, 07:27:02 PM »
If pellets can produce the 1000 degree heat? and maintain it efficiently, I would think an oven, smoker, multi purpose cooker would have a place in most peoples cooking arsenal, the fire, not as visual, not for watching and celebrating around, but none the less still there and wood to mess with, not... just open a bag and use the properly made pellets no piles of wood sitting and drawing critters. there is a bit of a learning curve on where and which pellets to buy that produce the desired flavors and temperature, I have had the misfortune of the improperly made pellets, no heat, lots of ash and no flavor.  The traeger will do and maintain 600 degrees at the cost of fuel, and its not insulated so its a fuel hog, that's the main reason a blackstone adorns my patio, at least until something better shows up. I see pellet burners on e-bay for sale, just no longer have the welders and gas hatchets to do the prototypes with, otherwise the neighbors would like me even less.... :-D the attachment is of the insulated smoker that I have on the back porch, however it has a 400 degree ceiling so it would require quite a bit of modification to begin to look at cooking pizza, however its manufacturer has made me think he will be bringing something fourth in the future, time will tell...
one thing I have noticed with pellets is when the temperature gets up above the BBQ area, the smoke goes away as well, so on the three or four times we cooked pizza on the traeger, after it was properly heated up, there was very little smoke and did remind us of the times we have had pizza from a wood fired oven, the pizza had just a very slight hint of open fire flavor added to it, a flavor I really do like and can not get with a gas or electric fired cooker.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2015, 07:35:55 PM by spacetrucker »

Offline deb415611

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Re: Gustavsen wood grill (ved grill)
« Reply #17 on: March 02, 2015, 07:46:13 PM »
  The traeger will do and maintain 600 degrees at the cost of fuel, and its not insulated so its a fuel hog,

what traeger do you have that hits 600 degrees,  I had a lil tex and I was lucky if it hit 450.   
Deb

Offline zwarbles

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Re: Gustavsen wood grill (ved grill)
« Reply #18 on: March 02, 2015, 08:01:24 PM »
what traeger do you have that hits 600 degrees,  I had a lil tex and I was lucky if it hit 450.

Yeah really, I have a Texas and only get to 450 or so.
Pat

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Gustavsen wood grill (ved grill)
« Reply #19 on: March 02, 2015, 08:39:56 PM »
If pellets can produce the 1000 degree heat? and maintain it efficiently, I would think an oven, smoker, multi purpose cooker would have a place in most peoples cooking arsenal, the fire, not as visual, not for watching and celebrating around,

An oven, smoker, multi-purpose cooker is not a WFO. Only a WFO is a WFO, and a fire rolling over the top of the dome is more than aesthetics, it's an integral element  of the baking process.
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, baker's yeast when we must, but always great pizza."  
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