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Author Topic: My first bread/crust flour pizzas--Vincent's Pizza  (Read 102377 times)

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Offline Aimless Ryan

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Re: My first bread/crust flour pizzas--Vincent's Pizza
« Reply #100 on: March 03, 2015, 11:50:47 AM »
No, I've never had Vincent's, nor had I ever heard of it until last week or whenever you started this thread. I'd like to maybe give it a try sometime reasonably soon since it's only a few hours away from me. Also, for some reason I really dig this thread and the pizza, and Vincent's style/philosophy.

I thought 9-11% was a lot of egg at first, too, and I considered trying to shoot for maybe 5% or 6% egg, but then I kind of just followed my own advice and decided to go with a huge change. (I know there was nothing to change it from, as I have never tried making this style before, but I think you know what I mean.)

Plus I have used egg in dough before a few times, with my Donatos clone, and my experience told me that what seems like a lot of egg, or a high percentage of egg, doesn't end up doing as much as you might think.

I can't say for sure yet, but judging by the state of the dough right now it seems as if I may have guessed pretty well with the yeast percentage.

One other thing I just thought of: I noticed last night that scott r appeared to be reading this thread for a while, but he did not leave a reply. I'm not sure why he didn't have anything to say, but I hope he does end up sharing some of his thoughts about what we've all had to say here. This is weird, but I don't think scott r and I have ever interacted with each other anywhere on these boards.
Ryan
http://www.ryanspizzablog.blogspot.com

Disclaimer: Don't necessarily believe anything I say here. My brain ain't quite right anymore (unless it is). If I come off as rude or argumentative, that's probably not my intention. Rather, that's just me being honest, to myself and everyone else; partly because I don't have enough time left to BS either you or myself. If you are offended by anything I say, it's probably because you think lying to people (to be "polite") is a good idea. I don't.

Offline Aimless Ryan

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Re: My first bread/crust flour pizzas--Vincent's Pizza
« Reply #101 on: March 03, 2015, 12:12:51 PM »
I think it's safe to say that my oil percentage ended up at something more like 3% or 4% than 5%. Not only did my mistake change the feel of the dough, but it also seems to have changed the way the dough handles, as I just turned about half of the dough into a dough ball (16 oz). Not surprisingly, the exterior of the dough is very oily, thus I kind of expect the seam on the bottom of the dough ball not to fully seal (which means I may have trouble stretching the dough in a way that'll make it an even thickness most of the way across the middle). Plus with all the oil on the exterior of the dough ball, I may end up with a very floury crust bottom.

I think I'll turn on the oven in less than an hour (475°), and probably bake maybe an hour after that.
Ryan
http://www.ryanspizzablog.blogspot.com

Disclaimer: Don't necessarily believe anything I say here. My brain ain't quite right anymore (unless it is). If I come off as rude or argumentative, that's probably not my intention. Rather, that's just me being honest, to myself and everyone else; partly because I don't have enough time left to BS either you or myself. If you are offended by anything I say, it's probably because you think lying to people (to be "polite") is a good idea. I don't.

Offline BobC

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Re: My first bread/crust flour pizzas--Vincent's Pizza
« Reply #102 on: March 03, 2015, 12:35:41 PM »
Based on your .5% yeast being "enough", I'll probably lower mine if yours turns out well.  Again, how long and at what temps approx were your 2 rises?

Eager to see pics, here :)

Offline Aimless Ryan

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Re: My first bread/crust flour pizzas--Vincent's Pizza
« Reply #103 on: March 03, 2015, 01:02:22 PM »
About two hours for the bulk ferment, and it's looking like it will be about two hours for the dough ball ferment, too. Everything has been at room temperature (except the cold tap water). "Room temperature" is usually at least 72° during the daytime, and maybe up to 75° or so, I think.

Although I'm feeling pretty good about how much yeast I used, I'm thinking a little more yeast may be doable. I guess one of my objectives has been to use an amount of yeast that will make the dough usable within four hours but also allow the dough to remain usable all day. Since I don't really do any styles that utilize a bulk ferment (or anything at room temperature prior to removing dough balls from the fridge), followed by dividing it into dough balls and hand stretching, this workflow is very unfamiliar to me, and I'm doing a lot of guessing here.

I'll almost certainly take several pictures and share them. I haven't taken any pictures of what I've done so far because I screwed up that part and I'm not sure there's any reason to show pictures of what I already know isn't right.
Ryan
http://www.ryanspizzablog.blogspot.com

Disclaimer: Don't necessarily believe anything I say here. My brain ain't quite right anymore (unless it is). If I come off as rude or argumentative, that's probably not my intention. Rather, that's just me being honest, to myself and everyone else; partly because I don't have enough time left to BS either you or myself. If you are offended by anything I say, it's probably because you think lying to people (to be "polite") is a good idea. I don't.

Offline BobC

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Re: My first bread/crust flour pizzas--Vincent's Pizza
« Reply #104 on: March 03, 2015, 01:33:13 PM »
Yes, I think Vincent was solving the problem of it overfermenting by beating it down.

I'm not sure how long I'll go with the bulk ferment.  My thought is to make the dough at 830 to 900, then bulk ferment till 1000 to 1030, then plan to bake it 1200 or after, but by the end of the night, and then refrigerate left dough patties till the next morning for use at lunchtime.  Basically simulating my guess of what he might have done.  So I need to find a qty of yeast and sugars that works for that if I can.

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Offline Aimless Ryan

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Re: My first bread/crust flour pizzas--Vincent's Pizza
« Reply #105 on: March 03, 2015, 01:57:15 PM »
Pizza is in the oven. I can already tell that the dough was not as soft as Vincent's dough. But it's not far off. I had to toss it several times for it to reach the size I felt was appropriate for the amount of dough I used.
Ryan
http://www.ryanspizzablog.blogspot.com

Disclaimer: Don't necessarily believe anything I say here. My brain ain't quite right anymore (unless it is). If I come off as rude or argumentative, that's probably not my intention. Rather, that's just me being honest, to myself and everyone else; partly because I don't have enough time left to BS either you or myself. If you are offended by anything I say, it's probably because you think lying to people (to be "polite") is a good idea. I don't.

Offline BobC

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Re: My first bread/crust flour pizzas--Vincent's Pizza
« Reply #106 on: March 03, 2015, 02:02:09 PM »
Tossing is very difficult.  I've only done it twice successfully.  All other attempts have been failures.  I don't know a way to practice without ruining dinner.

What temperature did you bake at and how long?

Offline PrimeRib

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Re: My first bread/crust flour pizzas--Vincent's Pizza
« Reply #107 on: March 03, 2015, 02:20:07 PM »

I haven't taken any pictures of what I've done so far ...


I like pics, even if they are incorrect.  Lots of pics, pics, pics ....

Offline PrimeRib

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Re: My first bread/crust flour pizzas--Vincent's Pizza
« Reply #108 on: March 03, 2015, 02:23:54 PM »

I think Vincent was solving the problem of it overfermenting by beating it down.


I know Vincent beat that pizza, but I think some of that is old school habit.  Norma, who is active on this board, posted some videos of an old school pizza maker at her shop and he would repeatedly throw some flour on the pizza and pat the dough, almost instinctively like it was a habit.  Vincent’s beating had no pattern to it, so I think some of that was old habit.

Offline Aimless Ryan

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Re: My first bread/crust flour pizzas--Vincent's Pizza
« Reply #109 on: March 03, 2015, 02:27:11 PM »
OK, here are my pics. Don't have anything else to say right now, as I am still eating.
Ryan
http://www.ryanspizzablog.blogspot.com

Disclaimer: Don't necessarily believe anything I say here. My brain ain't quite right anymore (unless it is). If I come off as rude or argumentative, that's probably not my intention. Rather, that's just me being honest, to myself and everyone else; partly because I don't have enough time left to BS either you or myself. If you are offended by anything I say, it's probably because you think lying to people (to be "polite") is a good idea. I don't.

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Offline BobC

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Re: My first bread/crust flour pizzas--Vincent's Pizza
« Reply #110 on: March 03, 2015, 02:33:02 PM »
Looks good, with nice bubbles especially, but with a yellowish tint.    Vincent's would have had a bit more char, but another 30 seconds or a minute might do it.

Still interested to know baking time and temperature?
« Last Edit: March 03, 2015, 02:35:18 PM by BobC »

Offline Aimless Ryan

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Re: My first bread/crust flour pizzas--Vincent's Pizza
« Reply #111 on: March 03, 2015, 02:44:48 PM »
I think the yellowish tint is from my lighting, because I don't see it when I look at the pizza. If I didn't know there was an egg in this, I wouldn't know there is an egg in it. All the salt (from the cheese, I guess) is telling me maybe a sweeter sauce is necessary. This has a good bit of crunch and softness, but maybe not much chew. This pizza probably should have been about an inch bigger. I think it was about 12". Pretty good, but I don't know how close it is to Vincent's.

I baked at 475 for 13 or 14 minutes. Stone temp was maybe 510.
Ryan
http://www.ryanspizzablog.blogspot.com

Disclaimer: Don't necessarily believe anything I say here. My brain ain't quite right anymore (unless it is). If I come off as rude or argumentative, that's probably not my intention. Rather, that's just me being honest, to myself and everyone else; partly because I don't have enough time left to BS either you or myself. If you are offended by anything I say, it's probably because you think lying to people (to be "polite") is a good idea. I don't.

Offline PrimeRib

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Re: My first bread/crust flour pizzas--Vincent's Pizza
« Reply #112 on: March 03, 2015, 02:49:34 PM »

OK, here are my pics.

Pie looks good. Was the dough very soft, like it opened itself up?

Offline Aimless Ryan

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Re: My first bread/crust flour pizzas--Vincent's Pizza
« Reply #113 on: March 03, 2015, 02:52:35 PM »
In my third pic I was trying to show that a slice of this pizza stands up when held by the crust, but it looks like my angle was a little wrong. I don't know if Vincent's does that. Like I said earlier, this dough was definitely not quite as soft as Vincent's. I could feel that much while stretching the dough, but I can also taste it; this pizza just wants a slightly softer dough.
Ryan
http://www.ryanspizzablog.blogspot.com

Disclaimer: Don't necessarily believe anything I say here. My brain ain't quite right anymore (unless it is). If I come off as rude or argumentative, that's probably not my intention. Rather, that's just me being honest, to myself and everyone else; partly because I don't have enough time left to BS either you or myself. If you are offended by anything I say, it's probably because you think lying to people (to be "polite") is a good idea. I don't.

Offline PrimeRib

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Re: My first bread/crust flour pizzas--Vincent's Pizza
« Reply #114 on: March 03, 2015, 02:59:50 PM »


this pizza just wants a slightly softer dough.


Could Vincent be using AP flour?

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Offline Aimless Ryan

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Re: My first bread/crust flour pizzas--Vincent's Pizza
« Reply #115 on: March 03, 2015, 03:27:36 PM »
I don't know. Someone said he used Kyrol bromated hi gluten, I think. Probably scott r. Which is a flour I've never used. I think the flour I used may work, because I know my dough was not quite soft enough. This flour is very new to me, too, and it seems to require you to use it the way it wants to be used. So if you do what it wants, you get a great pizza. But if you don't, your pizza will probably tell you. I'm still not sure what this one told me. But I am pretty impressed with how this one turned out considering I turned it into a pizza four hours after mixing the dough (wrong).
Ryan
http://www.ryanspizzablog.blogspot.com

Disclaimer: Don't necessarily believe anything I say here. My brain ain't quite right anymore (unless it is). If I come off as rude or argumentative, that's probably not my intention. Rather, that's just me being honest, to myself and everyone else; partly because I don't have enough time left to BS either you or myself. If you are offended by anything I say, it's probably because you think lying to people (to be "polite") is a good idea. I don't.

Offline Aimless Ryan

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Re: My first bread/crust flour pizzas--Vincent's Pizza
« Reply #116 on: March 03, 2015, 03:49:49 PM »
Pie looks good. Was the dough very soft, like it opened itself up?

Thanks.

I must have missed your post (quoted above). The dough was soft, but it needed to be softer. With all the wacky ingredients I used, it's hard to tell by looking at the formula how soft this dough was, but it felt like it was a few percentage points higher in hydration than my current New York style dough, which is 60% hydration +1.5% oil.

However, since I gave it a bulk ferment, and possibly also because I mixed it for so long, the dough was very elastic, which is a characteristic I don't think I'm seeing in Vincent's dough. His dough stretches so easily that it simply can't survive more than one good toss. And even though I said something very early in this thread that contradicts what I'm about to say, I now think Vincent's dough has to be tossed.

I'm sure things have changed since Vincent moved on, but I'm really starting to think a trip to Pittsburgh soon may be in order.
Ryan
http://www.ryanspizzablog.blogspot.com

Disclaimer: Don't necessarily believe anything I say here. My brain ain't quite right anymore (unless it is). If I come off as rude or argumentative, that's probably not my intention. Rather, that's just me being honest, to myself and everyone else; partly because I don't have enough time left to BS either you or myself. If you are offended by anything I say, it's probably because you think lying to people (to be "polite") is a good idea. I don't.

Offline BobC

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Re: My first bread/crust flour pizzas--Vincent's Pizza
« Reply #117 on: March 03, 2015, 04:13:50 PM »
If you held up a piece of Vincent's pizza by the crust, you needed to put your other hand under the end from the middle because it was too thin towards the middle to hold itself up.  The fact that you can't see or taste egg at a high percentage like that lends some credence to that as a possibility because you did get the kind of bubbles Vincent's had that I'm looking for.

Offline PrimeRib

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Re: My first bread/crust flour pizzas--Vincent's Pizza
« Reply #118 on: March 03, 2015, 04:17:27 PM »
Does anybody know if Pennsylvania requires disclosure of allergy information? If so, eggs are an allergen would need to be disclosed by Vincent's.

Offline Aimless Ryan

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Re: My first bread/crust flour pizzas--Vincent's Pizza
« Reply #119 on: March 03, 2015, 07:38:45 PM »
Bob, I don't think the few bubbles I got had anything to do with the fact that I included egg in the dough. (But now that I've said that, I can't really think of why my pizza may have had a few bubbles.) Actually, I think it probably had more to do with the way I stretched the dough. Or possibly the fact that I did a bulk ferment before forming the dough ball.
Ryan
http://www.ryanspizzablog.blogspot.com

Disclaimer: Don't necessarily believe anything I say here. My brain ain't quite right anymore (unless it is). If I come off as rude or argumentative, that's probably not my intention. Rather, that's just me being honest, to myself and everyone else; partly because I don't have enough time left to BS either you or myself. If you are offended by anything I say, it's probably because you think lying to people (to be "polite") is a good idea. I don't.

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