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Offline norma427

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #120 on: September 30, 2009, 09:53:06 AM »
I used this recipe for making a Sicilian style pizza yesterday.  I made the dough on Monday.  The first pie I made was dressed first with cheese and then the tomato sauce.  The second pie I made I dressed with tomato sauce then the cheese.  The bottom was nice and crispy, but I wasn't satisfied with the crust or the handling of the dough. The dough seemed to dry to me even though the hydration was 64.111%.  I would like an airy and light crust.  Could anyone one point me in the right direction or change this recipe or another recipe under Sicilian that helped them?
This is what I used and how I converted it for my Sicilian.

Flour (100%):
Water (63.1111%):
IDY (0.3951%):
Salt (2.1875%):
Olive Oil (0.88183%):
Sugar (2.08333%):
Total (168.65886%):
   255.15 g  |  9 oz | 0.56 lbs
161.03 g  |  5.68 oz | 0.35 lbs
1.01 g | 0.04 oz | 0 lbs | 0.33 tsp | 0.11 tbsp
5.58 g | 0.2 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1 tsp | 0.33 tbsp
2.25 g | 0.08 oz | 0 lbs | 0.5 tsp | 0.17 tbsp
5.32 g | 0.19 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.33 tsp | 0.44 tbsp
430.33 g | 15.18 oz | 0.95 lbs | TF = N/A

I entered a square pan measuring 12.5 inches by 12.5 inches under the rectangular pan.  This is the formula I got under the Lehmann Pizza Dough Calculation Tool.  I wanted to make 3 balls of dough.  I bowl residue compensation of 1.5.

Flour (100%):    926.02 g  |  32.66 oz | 2.04 lbs
Water (63.1111%):    584.42 g  |  20.61 oz | 1.29 lbs
IDY (0.3951%):    3.66 g | 0.13 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.21 tsp | 0.4 tbsp
Salt (2.1875%):    20.26 g | 0.71 oz | 0.04 lbs | 4.22 tsp | 1.41 tbsp
Oil (0.88183%):    8.17 g | 0.29 oz | 0.02 lbs | 1.81 tsp | 0.6 tbsp
Total (166.57553%):   1542.52 g | 54.41 oz | 3.4 lbs | TF = 0.1160744
Single Ball:   514.17 g | 18.14 oz | 1.13 lbs

These are the pictures. 

Thanks, Norma


I forgot to add I did par bake the crust first and then add the dressings.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2009, 09:37:57 AM by norma427 »

Offline gschwim

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #121 on: October 04, 2009, 02:37:47 PM »
Boy, am I surprised!  Three years ago, I asked a simple question and now, after a long absence, I come back and see... seven pages of comments!  I can't wait to try some of the recipes you all have posted.  Thanks!

Gene

Offline norma427

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Tried this recipe last week under Buddy's or Shield's..could anyone help
« Reply #122 on: October 04, 2009, 10:43:59 PM »
I posted last week about the pizza I made under Buddy's or Shield's.  I wasn't satisfied with how my results were.  Can anyone help me with this recipe or direct me to another one that they found helpful to make a Sicilian Style with an airy crust?
This is the post I wrote last week.

I used this recipe for making a Sicilian style pizza yesterday.  I made the dough on Monday.  The first pie I made was dressed first with cheese and then the tomato sauce.  The second pie I made I dressed with tomato sauce then the cheese.  The bottom was nice and crispy, but I wasn't satisfied with the crust or the handling of the dough. The dough seemed to dry to me even though the hydration was 64.111%.  I would like an airy and light crust.  Could anyone one point me in the right direction or change this recipe or another recipe under Sicilian that helped them?
This is what I used and how I converted it for my Sicilian.

Flour (100%):
Water (63.1111%):
IDY (0.3951%):
Salt (2.1875%):
Olive Oil (0.88183%):
Sugar (2.08333%):
Total (168.65886%):
   255.15 g  |  9 oz | 0.56 lbs
161.03 g  |  5.68 oz | 0.35 lbs
1.01 g | 0.04 oz | 0 lbs | 0.33 tsp | 0.11 tbsp
5.58 g | 0.2 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1 tsp | 0.33 tbsp
2.25 g | 0.08 oz | 0 lbs | 0.5 tsp | 0.17 tbsp
5.32 g | 0.19 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.33 tsp | 0.44 tbsp
430.33 g | 15.18 oz | 0.95 lbs | TF = N/A

I entered a square pan measuring 12.5 inches by 12.5 inches under the rectangular pan.  This is the formula I got under the Lehmann Pizza Dough Calculation Tool.  I wanted to make 3 balls of dough.  I bowl residue compensation of 1.5.

Flour (100%):    926.02 g  |  32.66 oz | 2.04 lbs
Water (63.1111%):    584.42 g  |  20.61 oz | 1.29 lbs
IDY (0.3951%):    3.66 g | 0.13 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.21 tsp | 0.4 tbsp
Salt (2.1875%):    20.26 g | 0.71 oz | 0.04 lbs | 4.22 tsp | 1.41 tbsp
Oil (0.88183%):    8.17 g | 0.29 oz | 0.02 lbs | 1.81 tsp | 0.6 tbsp
Total (166.57553%):   1542.52 g | 54.41 oz | 3.4 lbs | TF = 0.1160744
Single Ball:   514.17 g | 18.14 oz | 1.13 lbs

These are the pictures.

Thanks, Norma


I forgot to add I did par bake the crust first and then add the dressings.

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #123 on: October 05, 2009, 03:19:39 PM »
No, this picture is blasphemy with the toppings all on top.  I'd like to note that I did not special order my pizza this way.  This was the picture in the Free Press Top 25 Pizzas in Detroit at http://www.freep.com/pizzaphotos.

Apparently, Buddy's has an option where pepperoni slices can be added on top of the pizza, under the "Spice it up a Notch!" feature noted at http://www.buddyspizza.com/WEBSITE%20MENU.pdf. However, that option doesn't appear to apply to other toppings and I assume that one would have to request that the toppings be placed on top of the pizza.

Peter

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Tried this recipe last week under Buddy's or Shield's..could anyone help
« Reply #124 on: October 05, 2009, 04:11:14 PM »
Norma,

I noted that you used the dough formulation that was originally posted in the Buddy's/Shield's thread by member BDoggPizza at Reply 17 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3783.msg62787.html#msg62787 and that I converted to baker's percent format in Reply 19 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3783.msg62820.html#msg62820. I double checked your numbers using the Lehmann dough calculating tool at http://www.pizzamaking.com/dough_calculator.html and confirmed that your numbers are correct, although I noted that you omitted the sugar that BDoggPizza calls for in his recipe. That recipe is intended to replicate a Buddy's style pizza. I don't know if that is what you are trying to do, since you previously posted your recipe in the Buddy's/Shield's thread, but that recipe uses a different dough preparation and management method than used at Buddy's. The BDoggPizza method is more like one that Tom Lehmann would recommend, in that it uses cold fermentation after the dough has been prepared, and the dough is panned after the period of cold fermentation.

By contrast, from what I have read at the Buddy's/Shield's thread, Buddy's apparently pans the dough right after it has been removed from the mixer (possibly with some form of "double knead" before panning). It also seems that Buddy's uses at least some of the dough at room temperature after a few hours, for example, for the lunch crowd, although I suspect that some of the pans of dough can be put into the cooler to extend their useful lives (as I understand it, the dough is made and used the same day).

So, how you achieve the results you are after may depend on what you are trying to achieve--a Buddy's style pizza or a more traditional Sicilian style pizza. I personally have researched and studied both styles but have not done much with either because it seems to me from my research that such styles are likely to benefit significantly from using bromated flours in order to get the desired rise in the dough before baking the pizza.

Peter

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Offline norma427

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Re: Tried this recipe last week under Buddy's or Shield's..could anyone help
« Reply #125 on: October 05, 2009, 10:17:46 PM »
Peter,
I did omit the sugar, but didn't know how that would effect the dough.  The dough was okay to work with but the taste wasn't what I was looking for. 
I do want to make a more traditional Sicilian style pizza.  I tried to purchase some King Arthur Sir Lancelot Unbleached Hi-Gluten last week from my supplier.  They didn't have any of that product, but do carry it.  I did buy some Kyrol to try and I also have the All Trumps.  I know they both are bromated and I want to try and get away from using these flours. 
Since you haven't done too much with this style of pizza, could you point me to a recipe that I could try? 
Norma

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Tried this recipe last week under Buddy's or Shield's..could anyone help
« Reply #126 on: October 05, 2009, 10:41:47 PM »
Since you haven't done too much with this style of pizza, could you point me to a recipe that I could try? 

Norma,

When I was researching recipes for the Sicilian style pizza, both on and off of the forum, I couldn't make up my mind as to which recipe I would try first. Usually, I try several different recipes within a given style to learn as much as I can about that style and to determine what appeals to me the most. However, I thought that one of the recipes at the thread started by sourdough girl at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,5656.0.html would be a good place to start. Also, I was drawn to the method of making a Sicilian dough as described by member quidoPizza at Reply 7 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3805.msg32800.html#msg32800. I believe that that method should work with most Sicilian dough recipes.

I believe that there are many other members of the forum with much greater experience than I with the Sicilian pizza style who can steer you in the right direction based on the results they have achieved with various Sicilian style dough recipes.

Peter

Offline norma427

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Re: Tried this recipe last week under Buddy's or Shield's..could anyone help
« Reply #127 on: October 05, 2009, 11:04:45 PM »
Peter,
I think I will start with sourdough girl's recipe.  I will read the whole thread and then go from there. 
Thanks,
Norma

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #128 on: October 06, 2009, 01:21:09 PM »
Because bromated flours are frequently used to make Sicilian pizza doughs, over the weekend I sent a message to Buddy's via their website in which I asked whether the flours used to make their pizza dough are bromated. Today, I received a reply saying that the flour used to make their regular crust pizza dough is bromated. That may help explain why their crust has such an open and airy crumb. In a follow-up exchange, I was told that the amount of bromate in Buddy's flour is a trace amount and cooks off in the baking process. "Trace" amounts of bromate usually means parts per million, with 8-16 ppm being typical.

Peter
« Last Edit: October 06, 2009, 06:22:01 PM by Pete-zza »

Offline UnConundrum

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #129 on: October 07, 2009, 08:36:13 AM »
What about the "cooks off" comment?  Does it change chemically?  If so, into what?

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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #130 on: October 07, 2009, 10:32:38 AM »
What about the "cooks off" comment?  Does it change chemically?  If so, into what?

Warren,

"Cooks off" perhaps isn't the most technically accurate expression but I believe the writer was trying to convey that there is no bromate left in the crust after baking. There have been studies conducted on this point, including one at http://www.aaccnet.org/cerealchemistry/backissues/1960/chem37_573.pdf, that purport to show that unless the initial potassium bromate levels are high, there is likely to be no bromate left in the product after baking for a reasonable length of time. In Buddy's case, I have read that their pizzas are baked for around 12 minutes in an infrared conveyor oven. I don't recall reading what bake temperatures they use but they do recommend that purchasers of their so-called "Half-Bake" pizzas use an oven temperature of 375-400 degrees F.

I have looked at the potassium bromate levels in several of General Mills bromated flours and the levels run about 8-16 ppm. In GM's case, it seems that it is only the hard red spring wheat flours that are bromated. The winter wheat flours are not.

Technically, I believe the potassium bromate is converted to bromides. My original inquiry to Buddy's was mainly to determine whether they are using the bromated flour for getting a better final rise in their doughs. I posed my question in the context of a health concern to increase the chances of getting an answer to my question. Now that I have the answer, I might think about using a bit of ascorbic acid (Vitamin C) to achieve similar (albeit much less effective) results as using a bromated flour. That is the method that Papa John's uses with its pizza flours.

Peter
« Last Edit: October 07, 2009, 11:53:52 AM by Pete-zza »

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #131 on: October 07, 2009, 03:06:04 PM »
With all the zigging and zagging that has occurred in this thread, I thought that it might be useful to pull together in one place what I believe we know about the Buddy’s style pizza based on information available at the Buddy’s website and from the posts of many of our members. In attempting this summary, I am aware that some of the information may no longer apply or may have been modified, as often happens in a non-static business environment. For example, at one time there was a link at the Buddy’s website to some very useful information on the Buddy’s pizzas, at http://www.buddyspizza.com/secret.htm. However, that link no longer appears at the Buddy’s website—or at least I have not been able to find it (and it is not archived in the Wayback Machine). It is hard to know what the disappearance of the above link from its once highly prominent position means (unless they are cheapening their product) but since it is hard to imagine that Buddy’s has dramatically changed the character of its pizzas, I will assume for now that the information at the abovereferenced link is still valid. (For an update on this link, see EDIT 10 below.)

Members should feel free to add to the summary presented below or to correct or amplify on any point raised. Here is my summary:

1. Buddy’s uses a “premium grade” flour for its pizza dough, and, based on a recent exchange with Buddy’s, it is bromated (which is common for a Sicilian style dough). The only other dough ingredients are water, yeast and salt. There is no sugar in the dough and there is no oil in the dough per se, although, as noted below, there is oil that is used in shaping the dough and in the pans used to bake the pizzas.

2. According to Buddy’s, the dough is made daily, at each store location, and the dough is double kneaded and allowed to rise for 1 to 1 ½ hours, presumably in pans. Some time ago, after I inquired, I was told that double kneading mentioned above entails removing the dough from the mixer, patting it out (presumably after balling), stretching it, and then panning it (see Reply 5 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3805.msg31842.html#msg31842). According to Wes Pikula of Buddy's, the dough is "stretched numerous times" (look for the pertinent text at the end of the page at http://pmq.com/digital/20110607/files/data/search.xml). One member has reported (at Reply 95 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3783.msg73765.html#msg73765) that the dough making starts in the morning, for example, from about 8 AM to about 11 AM. That dough is then used during the course of the day to fill orders, with the dough made earliest in the morning (e.g., 8-9 AM) being used for the lunch business. Another member, at Reply 112 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=3783.msg79248#msg79248, has reported that the dough in the pans is allowed to rise and is then punched down again. It was also reported, at Reply 97 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=3783.msg73843#msg73843, that the dough is quite hard to press out. It has also been reported (at Reply 95 referenced above) that the water used to make the dough is ice cold and that the flour is also cold. That could account for some of the difficulty in pressing out the dough (a warm dough is much easier to work with). However, it is not clear whether the cold ingredients are used all of the time (to slow down the fermentation process so that the dough holds out longer) or only in the summer to achieve a relatively constant finished dough temperature when the stores are hotter than usual. Presumably, the pans of dough can be held in coolers to keep the dough from overfermenting/overproofing and removed and allowed to temper as needed to fill orders. If this is the method actually employed, it would not be unusual for different doughs to have different amounts of fermentation.  I should hasten to add that I have seen no evidence that the dough is held in coolers. (See EDIT 9 below for an update.)

3. There are two basic pizza sizes for the Buddy’s pizzas, a “four square” and an “eight square”. In an exchange with Buddy’s, I was told that the pan size for the four-square is 8” x 10”, and 10” x 14” for the eight-square. The pans themselves are tapered and are made of steel. They are seasoned and are black in appearance (see http://web.archive.org/web/20160211164414/http://msnbcmedia2.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/ArtAndPhoto-Fronts/COVER/080228/080228-pizza-vmed-3p.standard.jpg). The pans are oiled before the dough is placed into the pans. Some workers also apparently use oil on their fingers while pressing out the dough into the pans (Reply 99, at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3783.msg73884.html#msg73884). I believe the oil is vegetable oil (such as soybean or canola oil or possibly a blend).

4. The Buddy’s cheese for its square pizzas is a brick cheese made especially for Buddy’s by Kraft, in Wisconsin. [Note: See EDIT 2 below.] It is said to be shredded by hand although from a photo of the cheese that I have seen, at http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/08Mf788bNv6xv/340x.jpg, the cheese looks more diced than shredded, or else the shred is a short shred. According to Buddy’s, almost one pound of the cheese (15 ounces) is used to make the eight-square pizza. If the amount of cheese used for the four-square pizza is used proportionately, I estimate that the amount of cheese for that pizza comes to about 8.57 ounces, or 0.1071428 ounces per square inch. In both cases, the cheese is distributed to the outer edges of the pizzas to crisp up during baking. The cheese is put on the pizzas before the sauce.

5. The sauce for the Buddy’s pizzas is a non-chunky sauce and, according to Buddy’s, is made with a “blend of Stanislaus premium tomato products”, along with a proprietary blend of spices and herbs. The sauce is put on the pizzas in dollops to form wide “strips” (see http://bp0.blogger.com/__XShj91sMpw/RlJCGZFbuCI/AAAAAAAAAk4/jIeRhr1ub-U/s1600-h/redwings_5.JPG). According to EDIT 5 below, the sauce is put on the pizza prior to baking, unlike several other Detroit style pizza operators (including the Detroit Style Pizza Co, Via 313 and Klausie's Pizza) who put the sauce on the pizza either mid-bake (on a pre-baked crust with cheese applied) or after baking, using deck ovens rather than conveyor ovens.

6. The pepperoni used by Buddy’s on its pizzas is believed to be the Margherita brand. It is a coarse grind pepperoni that is sold under the designation “Coarse Grind Pepperoni”, #38616-31329 (Reply 79, at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3783.msg69983.html#msg69983). The pepperoni slices are thicker than usual and have been described as being about the size of a quarter. [Note: For an update on the actual size, see EDIT 3 below.] According to Buddy’s, the pepperoni slices are placed under the cheese blend to prevent charring. Based on http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/08Mf788bNv6xv/340x.jpg, the four-square pepperoni pizza appears to have 20 pepperoni slices. Extrapolating to the larger size pan (the eight-square pan), a total of about 35 pepperoni slices seems possible.

7. The Buddy’s pizzas are said to be baked for 12 minutes in an infrared conveyor oven (see Reply 28 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3783.msg62915.html#msg62915). I believe the ovens--that appear to be a triple stack with a hood--are shown in the background at http://wwwimage.cbsnews.com/images/2008/02/29/image3891595g.jpg (see also what appears to be an oil container and brush to the left and behind Mary Hellers, the Buddy’s worker). The only bake temperature I have noted—375 degrees F (and a 13-minute bake time)--is the one given in Reply 98 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=3783.msg73872#msg73872 [Note: See EDIT 3 below.] Buddy’s also sells so-called “Half-Baked” pizzas (http://web.archive.org/web/20120616150159/http://www.buddyspizza.com/documents/HALF-BAKEDinstructions.pdf) and, for those pizzas, it recommends that they be baked at 375-400 degrees F. I have seen no evidence of any pre-baking of the crusts. Note: For an update on the Buddy's ovens, see EDIT 5 below.

Despite what we feel we know about the Buddy’s pizzas, there is much we do not know. For example, we don’t know the precise ingredients and quantities of ingredients used by Buddy’s, and we don’t know how much dough is used to make a particular pizza. We would have to purchase a basic Buddy’s pizza, such as a cheese pizza, weigh it, and try to work backwards to arrive at a possible dough weight and thickness factor. I also believe that the use of a bromated flour is an important aspect of the Buddy’s dough, and that the dough preparation and management methods, including hydration values, are also critical to the success of the Buddy’s pizzas. I also think that concentrating on a room-temperature fermented dough, either alone or in conjunction with a period of cold storage (but mainly for dough management purposes rather than for better crust flavor), is a productive way to proceed. I do not believe that “double kneading” is as important as Buddy’s has led us to believe. Some form of stretch and fold, or a rest period in the mixer followed by a final few turns, or a simple punchdown after an initial rise in the pan, should, in my opinion, serve as reasonable substitutes for the Buddy’s double knead method.

Peter

EDIT 1 (12/11/10): Buddy's has changed its website and no longer talks about double kneading or the use of Stanislaus tomatoes or Wisconsin brick cheese although the double stretch method is mentioned in the Buddy's basic menu. Also. it also appears that Buddy's has gone to Foremost Farms cheeses, as noted on the Buddy's menu.

EDIT 2 (11/2/12): Buddy's no longer indicates on its menu that it uses Foremost Farms cheeses but the fat profile (fat per ounce) that Buddy's indicates for the brick cheese it uses is the same as for the Foremost Farms brick cheese (http://foremostfarms.com/Commercial/pdfs/Nutritional%20Information/NDS_Brick.pdf ); on 11/1/12, Buddy's revealed that its flour has a protein content of 12.2% (see Reply 105 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,21559.msg220791.html#msg220791); Buddy's also revealed that it uses about 8 ounces of brick cheese on its 4-square pizza and half the amount of dough that it uses for its 8-square pizza (see Reply 470 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3783.msg220496.html#msg220496 ); according to the information at Reply 318 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=3783.msg136795#msg136795, the Buddy's pizza sauce is made from tomato paste, water and seasoning, whisked together ahead of time. For additional updates, see Reply 278 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=3783.msg119818#msg119818.

EDIT 3 (11/14/12): According to Reply 318 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=3783.msg136795#msg136795, the Buddy's bake temperature is 495 degrees F and the bake time is 11-12 minutes; based on information provided by Armour Eckrich on the coarse grind pepperoni, the slices are 36mm in diameter (see Reply 314 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,21559.msg223442.html#msg223442).

EDIT 4 (1/1/13): According to the information provided by Buddy's in Reply 941 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=21559.msg229714#msg229714, Buddy's has been using conveyor ovens for over 30 years. Also, as noted at Reply 706 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,21559.msg227219.html#msg227219 and later in the same thread, there appears to be substantial evidence that Buddy's is either using no salt in its dough or a minuscule and nondetectible amount, or possibly the Buddy's nutrition information on sodium is incorrect.

EDIT 5 (1/4/13): According to Reply 1026 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=21559.msg230188#msg230188, Buddy's places the sauce on the pizzas before baking, not during mid-bake or after baking as do others who specialize in the Detroit style pizza (using deck ovens); according to Reply 1040 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=21559.msg230250#msg230250, Buddy's has switched to air impingement gas fired conveyor ovens.

EDIT 6 (1/19/13): Paragraph 2 updated to reflect comments of Wes Pikula, VP of Operations at Buddy's, that the dough is stretched numerous times.

EDIT 7 (7/19/13): The Buddy's dough preparation method as described in item 2 above, including the meaning of "double kneading", is confirmed by a former Buddy's worker at Reply 582 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3783.msg266486.html#msg266486.

EDIT 8 (2/11/16): For a corrected version of the Wes Pikula inoperative link in item 2 above, see http://www.pmq.com/June-2011/Time-capsule-Buddys-Rendezvous-Pizza/.

EDIT 9 (2/14/16): For an interesting and informative podcast, dated November 2, 2015 and featuring Wes Pikula, VP of Operation at Buddy's, see http://info.schweidandsons.com/podcast/wes-pikula-how-to-create-loyal-workforce-customer-base-through-company-culture. The podcast mentions that at times the dough balls were held in coolers, and could be sometimes used the next day, with any unused dough being discarded. The pans are seasoned blue steel pans with a black appearance.

EDIT 10 (2/16/16): For the Wayback Machine version of the link in the first paragraph of this post, see http://web.archive.org/web/20100712113114/http://www.buddyspizza.com/secret.htm.

Offline dicepackage

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #132 on: October 14, 2009, 01:58:56 PM »
I got Buddy's for lunch at the Point Plaza location and tried to gather some information.  I ordered three pepperoni slices and I tried to gather as much information as I could for you guys. I weighed the slices and got the following results for a post-cooked slice:

Slice 1: 140g
Slice 2: 147g
Slice 3: 148g
Average: 145g

Therefore a four slice pepperoni pizza after cooking should weigh 580g.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2009, 03:11:38 PM by dicepackage »

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #133 on: October 14, 2009, 02:14:56 PM »
dicepackage,

From the photo at http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/08Mf788bNv6xv/340x.jpg, would you say that the pan shown there, with about 20 pepperoni slices (my best count), is a "four-square" pizza?

Peter

Offline dicepackage

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #134 on: October 14, 2009, 03:10:21 PM »
Yes, that would be one of the four-square pans.

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Offline dcuttler

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #135 on: November 01, 2009, 03:41:58 PM »
Today is Pizza day!

About every 3-4 weeks I do my Buddy’s / Shield’s pizza baking day, and all of those that have been here for it before, or heard about it, start lobbying to be on the invite list.

I generally make 3- 4 pans about 11 X 17 inches. If you are going to do all the work, why go small? This brings me to the subject of the best pizza pans. Here in California, all that they carry in the local restaurant supply houses are very expensive aluminum or stainless steel pans. Awhile ago, I did a search and found the very best pizza pan, and for a reasonable price.

An internet search came up with a company that sells reinforced black steel baking pans. Guess where they are located…on Schoolcraft Road in Livonia MI. Yep It must be the same place that Buddy’s and Shield’s get them from. There is a hitch, they are wholesale only, and do not accept credit cards. They agreed to sell me 4 pans, and took my personal check after computing the shipping cost to my home here in California. These pans are great.

The company is P.A. Products. I would include a link, but this site will not let me. it is paprod dot com.

The wine is breathing, the beer is chilling, and the dough is rising. The Paul Butterfield Blues Band is playing on the box, and I am stirring the sauce. We have guests from Detroit arriving in a few hours that will be staying with us for 5 days, and I do not want them to feel too homesick.

Yeah right! Homesick while in the SF bay area?  I don’t think so.

Making and eating the Pizza is a tough job, but these are the sacrifices one sometimes has to make in life, so I guess I will just have to get back to it.

David

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #136 on: November 01, 2009, 03:56:32 PM »
David,

The link to P.A. Products is http://www.paprod.com/pans.html. The rectangular steel pans with sloping sides are shown toward the bottom of the page. However, I was told by Buddy's that their "eight-square" pans are 10" x 14". Since that pan has sloping sides, can you measure the top and bottom dimensions (a total of four dimensions) for your pan?

Can you tell us how much the four pans cost? Also, what dough recipe are you using and is it a clone of the Buddy's dough?

Peter

Offline dcuttler

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #137 on: November 01, 2009, 07:36:37 PM »
The pans that I use are 12 X 17 inch on the top, and 10.5 X 15.5 on the bottom.

The dough is from a recipt in Saveur magazine for Focaccia. It was very nice, and as soon as I have some time free, I will transcribe it and place a post on this site. This will have to wait until my guests leave.

I have never been too concerned if my Pizza is exactly like Buddy's as long as everyone that eats it goes home smilling. It is almost an all day job letting it rise two times and baking it twice. Hell, It is never the same twice. I am always changing things to see how it comes out. The results have never been bad, just different. This evening I will make two pies with Pepperoni, and one with mushrooms, green peppers, and anchovies. It's all good!

I use a local sausage company for the pepperoni, and have an Italian deli slice it to the thickness I like.

The sauce is one can of 6 in 1 crushed tomatoes, with a tsp of orgiano and basil added for each pizza. I cook it slow for about 3 hours to reduce it some.

I will get back to you guys with the dough soon.

back to the wine and guests,

David

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #138 on: November 01, 2009, 07:54:00 PM »
David,

There is a Focaccia board on the forum. Please post your dough recipe there in a new thread.

Thanks.

Peter

Offline dcuttler

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Re: "Detroit Style" - Buddy's or Shield's
« Reply #139 on: November 01, 2009, 10:53:00 PM »
Why should I do that?

David

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