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Author Topic: Scaling up my NY recipe  (Read 1675 times)

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Offline hodgey1

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Scaling up my NY recipe
« on: August 12, 2015, 02:50:44 PM »
I have been working with my pizza dough for years, making it in small 2-4 pie batches with either a food processor or KitchenAid mixer with a total batch weight not exceeding 2500 grams "5.5lbs". Having just upgraded to a 21 quart commercial mixer, I am wondering if I can just scale my recipes up to the new batch size of 6800g, or will I need to make recipe adjustments? I'm guessing yes to adjustments and hoping for advice.

Also, will I need to change my process from my current techniques when using a mixer? I have been mixing all dry ingredients first, remove 30% of my flours, add in all of the water in while mixing with the paddle on, add remaining flour and once it's fully incorporated I add the oil if called for. Once that is complete I switch to my dough hook and knead for additional 6-8 minutes till smooth.


I like to vary my recipes a bit but here is a latest for my NY style pizzas
Flour (100%):
Water (61%):
IDY (.02%):
Salt (2.5%):
Oil (1%):
Total (164.52%):
238.74 g  |  8.42 oz | 0.53 lbs
145.63 g  |  5.14 oz | 0.32 lbs
0.05 g | 0 oz | 0 lbs | 0.02 tsp | 0.01 tbsp
5.97 g | 0.21 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.07 tsp | 0.36 tbsp
2.39 g | 0.08 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.53 tsp | 0.18 tbsp
392.77 g | 13.85 oz | 0.87 lbs | TF = 0.09

Thanks,
Chris

Offline theppgcowboy

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Re: Scaling up my NY recipe
« Reply #1 on: August 13, 2015, 11:27:48 AM »
Your recipe should is fine, you are going to be on the very top end of what you mixer likes to work at. 

Offline hodgey1

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Re: Scaling up my NY recipe
« Reply #2 on: August 13, 2015, 12:37:22 PM »
Thanks, Cowboy.

Here is the capacity chart I just found for the machine I purchased. Looks like max is 12 lbs "5.5 KG" at 50% AR? Is AR the hydration %of flour?

Offline theppgcowboy

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Re: Scaling up my NY recipe
« Reply #3 on: August 13, 2015, 01:30:28 PM »
I assume it is the %.  I have a 20 qt and it will get its workout if I have to make 6 or 8 in a row and the dough does not want to mix great at the upper end of the capacity. I do 24 250 gram pizzadoughs at a time and it works great. At the beginning I just put everything in and mix, I will stop and give it med blend about 20 seconds to break things up then let it go at low and the dough comes out real smooth. 

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Scaling up my NY recipe
« Reply #4 on: August 13, 2015, 01:36:01 PM »
AR stands for absorption ratio.

Peter

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Offline theppgcowboy

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Re: Scaling up my NY recipe
« Reply #5 on: August 13, 2015, 02:13:23 PM »
AR stands for absorption ratio.

Peter

So they are basing a dough max weight on a 50% absorption?

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Scaling up my NY recipe
« Reply #6 on: August 13, 2015, 02:20:40 PM »
So they are basing a dough max weight on a 50% absorption?
Apparently so. However, as you can see from this old Hobart chart that I found years ago at a Hobart Australian website, AR values can mean different things:

http://www.hobartfood.com.au/resources/brochure/Mixer%20Capacity%20F-7701(9-05).pdf

Peter

EDIT (10/2/17): For a Wayback Machine replacement for the above pdf document, see https://web.archive.org/web/20160321165623/http://www.hobartfood.com.au/resources/brochure/Mixer%20Capacity%20F-7701(9-05).pdf

Offline hodgey1

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Re: Scaling up my NY recipe
« Reply #7 on: August 13, 2015, 02:22:46 PM »
I assume it is the %.  I have a 20 qt and it will get its workout if I have to make 6 or 8 in a row and the dough does not want to mix great at the upper end of the capacity. I do 24 250 gram pizzadoughs at a time and it works great. At the beginning I just put everything in and mix, I will stop and give it med blend about 20 seconds to break things up then let it go at low and the dough comes out real smooth.

Great info PPG. I will target no more that the 6kg you mention as your batch size.

Thanks,
Chris

Offline hodgey1

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Re: Scaling up my NY recipe
« Reply #8 on: August 13, 2015, 02:24:56 PM »
That would be around 15 pies for me when I'm doing NY pizzas. Still way better than 4 ;D

Offline hodgey1

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Re: Scaling up my NY recipe
« Reply #9 on: August 13, 2015, 02:43:00 PM »
Apparently so. However, as you can see from this old Hobart chart that I found years ago at a Hobart Australian website, AR values can mean different things:

http://www.hobartfood.com.au/resources/brochure/Mixer%20Capacity%20F-7701(9-05).pdf

Peter

Peter

Thanks for the info, I assumed that is what it was but not positive.

Thanks,
Chris

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Offline hodgey1

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Re: Scaling up my NY recipe
« Reply #10 on: August 13, 2015, 02:44:34 PM »
At the beginning I just put everything in and mix, I will stop and give it med blend about 20 seconds to break things up then let it go at low and the dough comes out real smooth.

PPG,
Do you begin your process with the paddle ?

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Scaling up my NY recipe
« Reply #11 on: August 13, 2015, 02:56:43 PM »
Chris,

Your original question on scaling a recipe has come up maybe three or four times before over the course of the life of the forum. And I was never able to find a good explanation. However, you may find this post of interest:

Reply 3 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=909.msg8210;topicseen#msg8210

The actual Pendleton booklet can be seen here:

http://www.pfmills.com/filebin/pdf/technical_informational_booklet_v1-opt.pdf

The applicable page of the booklet is numbered page 12.

Peter

Offline theppgcowboy

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Re: Scaling up my NY recipe
« Reply #12 on: August 13, 2015, 03:10:24 PM »
PPG,
Do you begin your process with the paddle ?
I start with a dough hook, you will find a weight and work flow that works for you in just a couple of batches.  At the beginning I was finding dry spots in the dough as I cut it up, figured out over time how to break it all up by going to med speed for about 20 seconds or so,  and now have a work flow that puts out a very smooth dough.  I do 30 neo doughs at a time only because they are 205 grams.  That is much as I care to push it.

Offline hodgey1

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Re: Scaling up my NY recipe
« Reply #13 on: August 13, 2015, 03:16:06 PM »
I appreciate your real world input. I will start with dough hook.

Chris

Offline theppgcowboy

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Re: Scaling up my NY recipe
« Reply #14 on: August 13, 2015, 03:25:19 PM »
I do 24 250 gram balls that usually scale to 255 grams. You will find what works for you good luck.

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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Scaling up my NY recipe
« Reply #15 on: August 13, 2015, 03:39:27 PM »
Chris,

I don't know if this will help, but this is what Tom Lehmann gives as instructions to professional pizza operators:

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=7499.msg64554;topicseen#msg64554

I'm sure you will figure things out in short order.

Peter

Offline hodgey1

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Re: Scaling up my NY recipe
« Reply #16 on: August 13, 2015, 09:17:52 PM »
Chris,

I don't know if this will help, but this is what Tom Lehmann gives as instructions to professional pizza operators:

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=7499.msg64554;topicseen#msg64554

I'm sure you will figure things out in short order.

Peter
Peter,
Thanks for the helpfull information and your words of encouragement.

Chris

Offline hodgey1

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Re: Scaling up my NY recipe
« Reply #17 on: August 14, 2015, 10:28:33 PM »
Chris,

Your original question on scaling a recipe has come up maybe three or four times before over the course of the life of the forum. And I was never able to find a good explanation. However, you may find this post of interest:

Reply 3 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=909.msg8210;topicseen#msg8210
Reading over that post confirms my concerns with scaling up my current recipe.

"The non-proportionality also held true in both recipes for sugar and oil, but the amount of water (80 degrees F) went up in direct proportion. "

I guess I will do some trial and error and see what happens.


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