Author Topic: Shakey's sauce recipe??  (Read 191002 times)

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Offline lightmeter

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Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
« Reply #200 on: September 10, 2016, 08:22:01 PM »
Thanks Lydia, glad to see you and zing pop back to up. Stealing a quote here... John Belushi " I'm putting the band back together."  "You'll never get Mad Earnie and fabulous DNA Dan out of them high-payin' gigs."

Looking forward to your reveal!

Offline DNA Dan

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Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
« Reply #201 on: September 11, 2016, 12:06:46 PM »
Fabulous? Bah. Although thanks for the compliments. I'm still around lurking on the board now and then. Been cranking out pretty good crackers for party after party over summer. Also traveling quite a bit with the family. I got the chance to meetup with John (aka Fazzari) back in August which was a blast. Those guys have killer pizza. No wonder the place was packed on an evening during the week.

As for Shakeys - I am still interested in *THAT SMELL*. Perhaps Lydia's fermentation secret will reveal new insights. You're killing us now Lydia! I don't get the Cali much anymore but wonder if *THAT SMELL* is still present in their product? Perhaps you regular connoiseurs  can chime in.

Offline Zing

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Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
« Reply #202 on: November 16, 2016, 11:22:08 AM »
I just bought a copy of Burt Wilson's 2001 book "Shakey and Me", his memoir of the times he spent with business associate Sherwood Johnson and comments about the Shakey's chain. I now have a better idea of why the chain flourished in the 50's and 60's. I used to work with a Scottish woman who would have called some of the main characters in this book "nut jobs". It certainly is a good read.

I wanted to mine this book to try to find an answer to Lightmeter's question “What would Sherwood ”Shakey” Johnson have done?”. Since this book is only a memoir and not scholarly research, I can't vouch that what is in this book is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. Burt writes that Shakey and Ed first tasted pizza at the El Chico restaurant in Sacramento, where Italian cook Aldo (who Shakey's later hired) made the pizza. Burt further states that Shakey's Swedish mother received many recipes from many of the housewives in the predominantly Italian neighborhood of East Sacramento. Burt writes:

".....So Shakey and Ed then set up a kitchen in Shakey's garage and began to experiment with every kind of concoction, using all the ingredients they could think of. Soon they hit on a particularly flavorful blend of 37 different herbs, oils and spices which they immediately labeled their "secret sauce" - long before McDonald's ever classified their hamburger sauce as "secret". With the pizza ingredients now in place, Shakey and Ed each put up $850 and with the promised additional credit and support of the local Lucky Lager Beer distributor, the two young entrepreneurs were ready to go into business."*

*Burt Wilson, Shakey and Me, (Sacramento: Paloria Press, 2001), 9-10.

I don't doubt that Shakey's first sauce had a lot of ingredients in it. Just take a look at the huge list of ingredients used in preparing supermarket frozen entrees today. However, restaurateurs have been known to lie about what is in their food. I very much doubt today's Shakey's bag-in-box sauce contains 37 ingredients.

Shakey's did a lot of advertising back then. The May 12th, 1969 issue of Broadcasting Magazine reported Shakey's was the 49th largest advertiser on network radio in 1968, sandwiched between Curtis Publishing (Ladies Home Journal, Saturday Evening Post) and RCA Consumer Electronics. Page 28 at:
http://www.americanradiohistory.com/Archive-BC/BC-1969/1969-05-12-BC.pdf

Burt Wilson posted his 2004 video about the Silver Dollar Jazz Band on Youtube:

It is notable because it includes footage of Shakey Johnson from 1994 on the 40th anniversary of Shakey's at the 7 minute 47 second point. The entire second half of this video discusses jazz musicians playing at Shakey's.

Offline Lydia

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Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
« Reply #203 on: November 16, 2016, 02:11:01 PM »
Awesome find! Thanks for the youtube link. Everytime I think I've seen everything, there's always something else.  :D




Pardon my West Coast pizza History Intermission:


I had read that about Chico's and was pretty surprised by what I came up with a few weeks back. I found these


http://midlifecrisishawaii.com/memories/chicos-pizza-revisited-with-wes-ralph-popham


Especially note how the menus are nearly identical to vintage "shakeys" menus


http://www.pnwvhfs.org/photos/2013/full/2013-10-11-conference-05078.jpg


And note the revolving pizza oven. I haven't seen one of those in decades.


https://www.zomato.com/moses-lake-wa/chicos-pizza-parlor-moses-lake/menu


A couple of youtube vids.


The process might as well be Shakeys or Me N Eds



Just watch them load that baby up! And BTW their cheese blend sounds like Me N Eds




I just knew this place had to be connect to Shakeys I just hadn't found it yet. Until I stumbled on this. Which still isn't the real connection I am expecting to find.


http://www.chicospizza.net/about


Love the beer tap pic, so iconic!


Quote
Pop Zornes brought his family to the Pacific Northwest to work as migrant workers picking apples. His son, Mel Zornes stayed in Moses Lake and opened a number of businesses over the years including Mel's Tavern, Cascade Dine and Dance and The Basin Street Inn. Cascade Dine and Dance was purchased from Mel and turned into a Shakey's Pizza.  Shakey’s Pizza was not a thriving business so in an effort to find a better product he started looking at different pizza parlors. In 1958, Mel finally found Chico's Pizza Parlor and said “it's the best he ever tasted”. Chico's was a franchise out of Portland, Oregon and at its peak had California, Oregon, Washington, Idaho, Montana and Hawaii under its belt. Over time the founders decided to get out of the pizza business which leaves only three locations left, Lynwood, California, Seaview, Washington and Moses Lake, Washington.


Edited to show it's a quote
« Last Edit: November 16, 2016, 02:25:44 PM by Lydia »
The roundest knight at King Arthur's round table was Sir Cumference.They say he acquired his size from eating too much pi.

Offline Lydia

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Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
« Reply #204 on: November 16, 2016, 02:17:11 PM »

".....So Shakey and Ed then set up a kitchen in Shakey's garage and began to experiment with every kind of concoction, using all the ingredients they could think of. Soon they hit on a particularly flavorful blend of 37 different herbs, oils and spices which they immediately labeled their "secret sauce" - long before McDonald's ever classified their hamburger sauce as "secret". With the pizza ingredients now in place, Shakey and Ed each put up $850 and with the promised additional credit and support of the local Lucky Lager Beer distributor, the two young entrepreneurs were ready to go into business."*


I can't imagine trying to use 37 ingredients period. The last sauce I worked on has a something like 13+ and thats not including salt and sugar and it's pretty complex! Awesome "west coast flavor" but man.. weighing out all those ingredients is a "Chore".  :chef:
The roundest knight at King Arthur's round table was Sir Cumference.They say he acquired his size from eating too much pi.

Offline Lydia

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Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
« Reply #205 on: November 16, 2016, 02:30:35 PM »
As for Shakeys - I am still interested in *THAT SMELL*. Perhaps Lydia's fermentation secret will reveal new insights. You're killing us now Lydia!


Folks, I'm still working on this. There's "alot" of information to sift through and clean-up, as well as plenty training vids to share as well.
The roundest knight at King Arthur's round table was Sir Cumference.They say he acquired his size from eating too much pi.


Offline Zing

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Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
« Reply #206 on: November 16, 2016, 07:50:00 PM »
Those Chicos' are certainly copycats of Shakey's. Burt's book credits Shakey Johnson with coining the term "pizza parlor".

Offline Lydia

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Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
« Reply #207 on: November 16, 2016, 08:52:26 PM »
Zing


I don't know that this Chicos is even related to El Chicos that was in Sac.





I don't have the book, but I was wondering if you might recall whether or not there is a mention of Shakey actually making pizzas at El Chico's. I read that in an article and assumed it was taken from Burt's book.
The roundest knight at King Arthur's round table was Sir Cumference.They say he acquired his size from eating too much pi.

Offline Zing

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Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
« Reply #208 on: November 16, 2016, 10:47:07 PM »
According to the book, Shakey and Ed were doing what we do - watching the cook at El Chico, Aldo, make his pizza. El Chico had some sort of connection to Joe Marty's restaurant, which I guess is still around. Location listed in the book for that time period is inside the Tower Theater complex near 16th and Broadway in Sacramento.

Offline Lydia

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Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
« Reply #209 on: November 17, 2016, 07:50:44 AM »
Zing, thanks so much for checking on that for me. :D
The roundest knight at King Arthur's round table was Sir Cumference.They say he acquired his size from eating too much pi.

Offline stevenmhinde

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Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
« Reply #210 on: November 30, 2016, 05:12:13 PM »
Holy cow! I created this thread back in 2004.  I haven't checked in on it for many years.  I was shocked to see how much discussion has been generated!  So many great contributions to the quest for Shakey's sauce!  And crust!  And all things Shakey's!

Huge thanks to all who have brought it this far!

-Steve

Offline Zing

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Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
« Reply #211 on: December 04, 2016, 05:43:41 AM »
Steven, I remember you posting that you wanted the recipe for the sauce used during the mid/late 80's. Of all the recipes posted here, I think you would be most interested in the one Lightmeter posted on page 8 of this thread.

When I first started trying to clone Shakey's pizza, I did a search on the Google and Yahoo search engines. I found all sorts of recipes, though none matched what was on current actual Shakey's slices. I did another search recently and found several recipe websites copied recipes originally posted to this thread!


Online carl333

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Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
« Reply #212 on: December 04, 2016, 06:44:11 PM »

Folks, I'm still working on this. There's "alot" of information to sift through and clean-up, as well as plenty training vids to share as well.
Getting close Lydia?
Carl

Offline Mad_Ernie

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Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
« Reply #213 on: December 04, 2016, 10:37:37 PM »
Thanks Lydia, glad to see you and zing pop back to up. Stealing a quote here... John Belushi " I'm putting the band back together."  "You'll never get Mad Earnie and fabulous DNA Dan out of them high-payin' gigs."

Looking forward to your reveal!

Dan and I ain't dead yet!   ;)

I haven't had a Shakey's pizza since June of 2014 in Anaheim, but I am hoping to make it back to the one in Oroville, CA in March.  Last time I was there (2010) I spoke to one of the owners.  She was very nice.  She confirmed something I had heard a few days earlier from a Round Table Pizza franchise owner/manager who said they had recently gone to no trans fat dough recipe.  The RT guy said it actually made the dough rise to a greater extent without the fat.  The Shakey's in Oroville still used the old deck ovens and had more of that "smell" of Shakey's than the ones I have been to since then in Anaheim or on Oahu.

I am fascinated by this Chico's Pizza connection and what I have been able to find on the internet since I read the previous posts.  From the looks and sound of things, it appears they were definitely a close cousin to Shakey's, if not a sibling.

As for you, lightmeter: "Oh yeah? Well me and the Lord, we have an understanding." :-D

"It's 106 miles to Chicago, we got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark... and we're wearing sunglasses." - Elwood Blues
Let them eat pizza.

Offline Lydia

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Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
« Reply #214 on: December 05, 2016, 09:33:48 PM »
Getting close Lydia?


Yes, close but there's a couple of SNAFU's.


Some of it has to do with access. I was intending to provide links but it seems to not be an option any longer. Although I have them, there's also an issue about posting those within the forum.


I was really hoping for feedback from forum members on the sheeting process. I'm also bummed about not being able to share the videos. They're not on youtube and are now password protected.


Overall, it's my opinion that the sheeting method unique to both places is irrelevant (Which I believe Dan has said a few times here and there) and that their similarities are actually more important. 


My feeling is that what we're really needing is the fermentation process, which is pretty cool. The 3 day process is working consistently with a reduced hydration on my RT Dough. Pushing into 4 days gets the parmesan-y cheese like flavors but with texture loss. It kinda reminds me of Better Cheddars.:drool:


So I was trying to rework the info. but if the consensus is that you all would be fine with just my "translation" of the information. I can start posting sooner.
[/size]
Please let me know what you guys think.

Thanks
The roundest knight at King Arthur's round table was Sir Cumference.They say he acquired his size from eating too much pi.

Offline Zing

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Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
« Reply #215 on: December 06, 2016, 01:03:50 PM »
First, some old business:

I just found this page from the Chico's in Moses Lake, Washington that gives some history of the chain:

http://heyevent.com/venue/b35m6oormbqzua

--
Edit December 7, 2016
When I clicked on that http://www.chicospizza.net/about link from Lydia's post of November 16, 2016, I found that the domain also expired November 16, 2016 and there is now a domain parking screen there. The archive showed that that page was also posted by the Chico's in Moses Lake, Washington. Back in 2001-2002, that domain was owned by another Chico's at 131 6th Street, San Francisco.
--

All three remaining Chico's have Yelp reviews, with one or more reviews of each noting a similarity to Shakey's pizza. I have not found out who started the Chico's chain in Portland, OR but I did find an old picture of a pizza box with the following addresses on it: 1919 SE 82nd, and 3011 North Lombard, Portland, Oregon.

My thoughts on Lydia's latest thread just above: I have had limited experience with the sheeting process, just using a rolling pin and sometimes a Marcato 6" pasta machine to make a "double wide" skin, which I used a 12" form with to cut out a round piece of dough. Storing and using a commercial sheeter is problematical for me. I have a lot of descriptions of Shakey's sheeting process both from this forum and from the facebook pages of various Shakey's franchisees. When the short-lived Shakey's in American Forge, Utah opened in May, 2011, a local Salt Lake City TV station did a story on them, including showing the sheeting process. That video is long gone from their website, however. On my old computer someplace, I have audio or text of an interview with one of the Shakey's CEO's, in which he described in general terms the Shakey's sheeting process. I have so much stuff now it takes me forever to find anything anymore.

Purchasing and learning expensive desktop publishing software, and renting professional-grade video equipment would entail quite a bit of effort and expense. It may just be more efficient to rewrite the materials as if they were going to be one of the recipes in a cookbook of pizza recipes. There have been many threads here on pizzamaking.com on how to make thin crust dough. Selecting one of these threads as a primer should cut down on the amount of time necessary to rework the information.

The manager of a foodservice cash-and-carry, who used to work as a chef, once told me he was not afraid to give people his recipes. He just didn't tell them the technique! I think we need to know both the technique and the exact ingredients used to replicate the formula in use at a particular time period.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2016, 08:56:15 AM by Zing »

Offline Mad_Ernie

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Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
« Reply #216 on: December 06, 2016, 09:53:05 PM »
My feeling is that what we're really needing is the fermentation process, which is pretty cool. The 3 day process is working consistently with a reduced hydration on my RT Dough. Pushing into 4 days gets the parmesan-y cheese like flavors but with texture loss. It kinda reminds me of Better Cheddars.:drool:


So I was trying to rework the info. but if the consensus is that you all would be fine with just my "translation" of the information. I can start posting sooner.
[/size]
Please let me know what you guys think.

Thanks


I say: Full steam ahead!!  :-D

Lydia, when you say you've been using a lower hydration of your RT dough recipe with a longer fermentation time, that intrigues me.  I have had great success with your RT dough recipe and I am curious as to what hydration you are using.  Based on previous attempts at a Shakey's dough recipe, my guess is it would be 37-40%.  Am I close?

Also, to Zing's point, the whole sheeting process just doesn't cut it with a rolling pin.  Many of us have tried.  You really need a true sheeter.  But your 3-layered cheater recipe manages to create an excellent facsimile of a sheeted dough, especially for the average home baker.  I would like to give any testing recipe a try with that method.

-ME
« Last Edit: December 06, 2016, 09:56:59 PM by Mad_Ernie »
Let them eat pizza.

Offline lightmeter

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Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
« Reply #217 on: December 10, 2016, 05:14:52 PM »
Whoa, the gang is back. Super~! ;D
The video Zing posted is awesome and I can't wait to read the book.
... and thanks Lydia - I look forward to a deep read of your posts over the holiday.


Offline cdoyle

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Re: Shakey's sauce recipe??
« Reply #218 on: January 13, 2017, 08:52:33 PM »
Re-subscribing:
I really want to taste that pizza sauce I remember as a kid.    Can't wait to see the latest news.

 :pizza: