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Offline pizzarust

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My Pizzone Arrived
« on: December 19, 2015, 06:24:45 PM »
 So I received a tracking # from Simone, & fedex showed it arriving on Thursday 12/17. I mixed up my first ever batch of Neapolitan dough on tues for the the event! That night i rechecked the fedex #, and it was showing Tues 12/22 delivery  >:(
Then on Thursday, there is a knock on my door and it's fedex w/the oven!

I set the oven up on Friday, but only had 2 dough balls left, as I used the rest for something else when I thought the oven wasn't coming til next week. Anyway, I fired up the oven for the 1st time Friday night. I kept the heat over 400C for a little over an hour to burn off any impurities, then add a but more wood to try to get hotter. I don't think it went past 450C.

Then disaster struck. I'd never used a peal before, and my 1st pie stuck like crazy, refusing to leave the peel. It end up all over the floor of my oven & patio deck. Guess I didn't use enough flour. The 2nd and last piece of dough, I floured like crazy and put corn meal on the peal. It launch perfectly.  The over was about 450C, and I closed the door. Watching thru the window, I counted 30 seconds, when I saw a black line form on the bottom of my pie.  I immediately removed the door and lifted the pie w/peel. Burnt to a crisp, was the bottom. Topping were not even close to being done, so I domed the pie. It looked good, but the bottom was so burnt after 30 seconds, the pie was bitter & uneatable.

By now I have a hot oven, no dough, & a 9yr old crying because " I'm hungry and all I want is pizza". So we pile in the car and head to Novecento to BUY some of their dough. I told the owner what happened, and he said it was my dough. We get home, and the oven has cooled to around 375C. I add another piece of wood, and make a pie. By the time its ready to launch, the oven is a little over 400C. The pies were awesome!!! I cooked 3 pies with their dough, all cooked in 60-90 seconds, and were incredible.

So lesson learned-the thermometer temp by the door, in no way equates to the deck temp, or my thermometer is bad. What temp are you guys cooking with your Pizza Party's?

Also could my dough have been the problem. I followed the Massimo recipe the best I could:
1L water
1700gr harvest bread flour from costco
50gr salt
4gr ady

mixed ady in the lukewarm h2o and let it sit for 10min. Then I slowly added the flour and mix by hand. Probably took 15-20min to incorporate flour. I did have about 1 1/2cups of flour left over. the dough started looking to dry. I then put the mass on the counter and folded if over for 5min, then covered w/towel and let it rest for 2 hr. Then it was cut into 230-250gr ball and put in tupperware. Should I have kneeded it more? Then dough was stored in frig from tues to friday. Too long?  I did spray the tupperware with pam, and it made the bottom of the dough ultra sticky. Maybe this is why it burnt so bad?

Thanks in advance.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2015, 06:38:02 PM by pizzarust »

Offline ponzu

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Re: My Pizzone Arrived
« Reply #1 on: December 20, 2015, 03:27:02 AM »
First off:  Your pizzas look awesome,  Store bought dough or not.

As to temperature, you are going to want an infrared thermometer to measure your deck temp and experiment with what you like best.  If neapolitan is what you are after then you will want to hit 800-900 F on the deck.

As to the dough:  it sounds like it was under developed (though over fermentation is also  possible) : ie not enough gluten.   How you develop your dough is variable.  you have thousands of options.  Personally I like to use my Bosch mixer or a series of stretch and folds ( or both) to develop structure.

I will say that I learned more about pizza from making bread from the tartine cookbook than anything else.

Incidentally I just got my pizzone last week too, so it will be fun to learn together!

Offline barryvabeach

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Re: My Pizzone Arrived
« Reply #2 on: December 20, 2015, 08:07:04 AM »
Sorry  about the peel problems.  Yes, there is a lot of art to using a peel,  and over flouring the peel can also lead to burning and a bitter taste.   I was terrible at launching pies and finally switched to a Super Peel,  but a few tips if you stay with a regular peel.  First, the longer the pie sits on the peel without moving, the more likely it will stick.  I learned to get everything in place, put the pie on the peel, then dress it at full speed, then load in the oven.  Another tip is to put on the sauce, then shake the peel so the pie moves a little, then add the cheese, then shake again, then load.  Again, you are trying to keep the pie from sitting in one place too long.  Another thing is to switch to rice flour or semolina flour for dusting the peel.  They don't burn as quickly, and the rice flour is much less sticky and acts more like ball bearings.

Offline pizzarust

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Re: My Pizzone Arrived
« Reply #3 on: December 20, 2015, 12:42:55 PM »
Thanks gents.

Offline il selvaggio

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Re: My Pizzone Arrived
« Reply #4 on: December 20, 2015, 12:55:01 PM »
Don't feel bad about the peel, I did the exact same thing with my first two pizzas then went to the internet to figure out what the heck I was doing wrong. I use wooden peels with great success and use the technique that was described above. I use just a little cornmeal, it does work just like ball bearings, no flour and just give it a little shake or tap on the counter between every topping to start. After you do several like this you will figure out just a couple of shakes will do and you will never have that happen again. My confidence was shot after those first few folded up and I watched as all the cheese and toppings burned (seasoned) my new brick floor, wont be long and you will be a pro! good luck

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Offline ponzu

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My Pizzone Arrived
« Reply #5 on: December 20, 2015, 01:21:37 PM »
Those are great points about the challenges of using a peel.

The reason I suspect underdeveloped dough versus peel technique is that you described the dough as sticky, and you seemingly had no trouble launching the store-bought dough.

Some clues to recognize when the dough is on its way to being  properly developed after initial mixing.   It becomes very smooth, and very extendable.

Look at the Scottr video in reply 44 here to get an idea of what you're after.

https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=10454.25
« Last Edit: December 20, 2015, 03:11:00 PM by ponzu »

Offline pizza party

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Re: My Pizzone Arrived
« Reply #6 on: December 20, 2015, 05:50:36 PM »
Beautiful pizzas Rust! Welcome to pizza party family
Simone
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Offline pizzarust

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Re: My Pizzone Arrived
« Reply #7 on: December 20, 2015, 06:14:09 PM »
Those are great points about the challenges of using a peel.

The reason I suspect underdeveloped dough versus peel technique is that you described the dough as sticky, and you seemingly had no trouble launching the store-bought dough.

Some clues to recognize when the dough is on its way to being  properly developed after initial mixing.   It becomes very smooth, and very extendable.

Look at the Scottr video in reply 44 here to get an idea of what you're after.

https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=10454.25
Thanks for the video, Ponzu. My dough looked nothing like that. Mine was rough and lumpy looking before I weighed out the balls and put them in the frig. Although, they were nice and smooth after 3 days in the frig. I will knead the dough until smooth next time. Which will be tomorrow, because we are cooking pizza on Wednesday!!!

Side note. While I've never made Neapolitan dough before last week, I have made probable 15 batches of ny sytle. But it has been at least a year since I've made any. After watching that video, Ponzu, it reminded me that my ny dough looked nice & smooth like that. Why I didn't remember that while make the Neapolitan, I do not know. Caulk it up to old age.

Thanks for your help, everyone.

Offline ponzu

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Re: My Pizzone Arrived
« Reply #8 on: December 20, 2015, 06:49:15 PM »
When kneading your dough I find short periods of stretching followed by 20 minute rests to be very effective.

Good luck!

Offline moy71

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Re: My Pizzone Arrived
« Reply #9 on: December 21, 2015, 05:38:18 PM »
in my limited experience,  10mins is sufficient for hand kneading. 
you start off with the dough sticky and gooey.  lift the dough from the surface and blobs remain.
as I start to approach the 10min mark,  lift the dough and it comes away pretty clean.  kneading done.

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Offline pizzarust

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Re: My Pizzone Arrived
« Reply #10 on: December 21, 2015, 08:48:48 PM »
Make a batch today, it is very smooth, & looks nice. Wednesday pizza party!! I'll post pics on Thrus.

Thanks everyone.

Offline ponzu

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Re: My Pizzone Arrived
« Reply #11 on: December 21, 2015, 09:33:26 PM »
Awesome!  Can't wait to see the pies!

Offline pizzarust

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Re: My Pizzone Arrived
« Reply #12 on: December 24, 2015, 07:10:12 PM »
Cooked 14 pies last night. My dough came out awesome. Temperature management is key to this oven, I guess it will take time. I either seen to get it too hot, or not hot enough. More practice is needed!!!

Offline ponzu

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Re: My Pizzone Arrived
« Reply #13 on: December 25, 2015, 12:49:12 AM »
Those look wonderful. I especially like the leoparding on the first one!  Great work!

Are you using the spartefama?

Offline pizza party

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Re: My Pizzone Arrived
« Reply #14 on: December 25, 2015, 02:44:01 AM »
great beginning!
i advice to use Spartifiamma, is huseful and simply the cooking especially when you have to get experience
Merry Christmas
Simone
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Offline pizzarust

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Re: My Pizzone Arrived
« Reply #15 on: December 25, 2015, 04:00:31 PM »
Those look wonderful. I especially like the leoparding on the first one!  Great work!

Are you using the spartefama?
Yes I am.  Thanks for the kind words.

Offline pizzarust

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Re: My Pizzone Arrived
« Reply #16 on: December 25, 2015, 04:04:12 PM »
Bought a prime rib roast for Christmas dinner, but had three doughs left over from the party the other night. So, Christmas brunch.....
The last dough is a NY style.

Offline ponzu

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Re: My Pizzone Arrived
« Reply #17 on: December 25, 2015, 07:15:36 PM »
I like the NY pie a lot. How many minutes, and at what temp?

Offline pizzarust

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Re: My Pizzone Arrived
« Reply #18 on: December 25, 2015, 11:35:01 PM »
That pie took about 3-1/2min. According to my new handy dandy IR thermometer, deck temp was 716F. Door temp was a little over 300C.

Merry Christmas, all.

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Re: My Pizzone Arrived
« Reply #19 on: December 31, 2015, 01:08:14 PM »
Happy new year, in italy -5 hours
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