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Author Topic: Inverted's Pie Barn  (Read 85650 times)

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Offline invertedisdead

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Re: Inverted's Pie Barn
« Reply #20 on: July 21, 2016, 04:36:54 PM »
Dough

1000g Flour
640g Water
21g Salt
30g Oil (coconut, Hi Chau  :D)
1g Yeast

Straight dough. 4 day CF... two more dough balls hibernating in the fridge til whenever. Round numbers make things so easy.

Sauce

14 oz Muir Glen Whole Peeled blended with a few small basil leafs.
1/4 + 1/8 tsp salt
1/4 tsp California olive oil infused with garlic (microwave extraction)
1/4 tsp brown sugar

6:30 ish bake. Stone on the lowest rack. 3% coconut oil is such a unique texture.
the proof is in the pizza

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Inverted's Pie Barn
« Reply #21 on: July 21, 2016, 06:20:58 PM »
3% coconut oil is such a unique texture.
Ryan,

That is a nice looking pizza. Your comment about the coconut oil intrigues me. I recently bought a jar of coconut oil because it is supposed to be a healthy fat but can you elaborate further on the effects of the coconut oil on your pizza crust? For example, does it add flavor or taste, or more crust color, or greater or less tenderness of the crumb than other oils, etc.?

Peter

Offline norcoscia

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Re: Inverted's Pie Barn
« Reply #22 on: July 21, 2016, 06:48:19 PM »
Great question, I would like to know also (I have a big tub of it).  Ryan, I don't remember if you mentioned it but in case you did not ( I think) it is important to let folks know it is critical to use highly refined coconut oil so the oil (and resulting pizza) does not taste like coconuts (just my two cents).....
Norm
Baker's Pride GP-61 NG and PizzaParty Ardore (with saputo tiles) LP
Focus is NY style but do others too
Preferred Flour (for NY pies) is All Trumps BB
Preferred temperature for NY is 550F, for NP 900+F
Preferred type of yeast IDY

Offline invertedisdead

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Re: Inverted's Pie Barn
« Reply #23 on: July 21, 2016, 07:16:08 PM »
Ryan,

That is a nice looking pizza. Your comment about the coconut oil intrigues me. I recently bought a jar of coconut oil because it is supposed to be a healthy fat but can you elaborate further on the effects of the coconut oil on your pizza crust? For example, does it add flavor or taste, or more crust color, or greater or less tenderness of the crumb than other oils, etc.?

Peter

Thanks Peter,

Coconut oil is unique due to the medium chain fatty acid structure. What I can say about coconut oil is because of its natural antiviral, antibacterial, and anti-fungal properties I don't believe it has the rancidity problem most oils have. I used a refined Organic coconut oil which doesn't add coconut flavor. Only the unrefined variety would. That might still be worth trying though. I've been using coconut oil as a 1:1 substitute for butter for a while in brownies and other goods, and recently in pizza in a 50:50 EVOO x CocOil mix. This is my first time doing 100% coconut. It's unique. At 3% it almost reminded me of an American style pizza but with a lot less oil than the 6-9% they use. Not as chewy for high gluten flour, it softens the crumb but also seems to support it; kind of like a cake, I suppose!

Ryan

Great question, I would like to know also (I have a big tub of it).  Ryan, I don't remember if you mentioned it but in case you did not ( I think) it is important to let folks know it is critical to use highly refined coconut oil so the oil (and resulting pizza) does not taste like coconuts (just my two cents).....

Yeah, I used an organic refined oil for this. I wonder how unrefined would effect flavor. I probably wouldn't want to use it at 3% but it might be fine at 1%
I use cold press unrefined for skin and hair and use refined for cooking as unrefined has such a low smoke point anyways.


Here's what Chau said about coconut oil.

Carl, a few years ago I tested side by side oil versus butter flavored shortening in my NY doughs.  What I noticed is that oil gives more of a wet softness to the crumb and shortening more of a drier soft texture.  For my taste, I prefer the shortening and have used it since.  I recently gave coconut oil a try since it is a solid at room temps like shortening and I have it sitting on counter staring at me while I make dough.   I didn't notice any flavor or textural changes in the crumb when comparing shortening to coconut oil and decided to make the switch since coconut oil is healthier than shortening.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2016, 07:23:16 PM by invertedisdead »
the proof is in the pizza

Offline invertedisdead

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Re: Inverted's Pie Barn
« Reply #24 on: July 22, 2016, 07:53:44 PM »
Those two extra dough balls I was saving sure didn't last long...  ;D
the proof is in the pizza

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Offline invertedisdead

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Re: Inverted's Pie Barn
« Reply #25 on: July 24, 2016, 11:19:02 PM »
Made two random 6 hour doughs today for some family. I stretched it, they topped it with mushrooms, ham, red onion, and bell pepper. Boars head mozzarella, parm, canned san marzanos from their garden. 6 minutes @ 550 convection, same setup as the first post in this thread. I wish I had a convection oven myself. I like the way it browns without broiling, even with the stone on the oven floor.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2016, 11:43:29 PM by invertedisdead »
the proof is in the pizza

Offline invertedisdead

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Re: Inverted's Pie Barn
« Reply #26 on: July 27, 2016, 11:35:22 PM »
Over vs Under
the proof is in the pizza

Offline invertedisdead

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Re: Inverted's Pie Barn
« Reply #27 on: July 30, 2016, 11:13:55 PM »
Sauce is Muir Glen whole peeled with salt + pepper
First pie is tomato, fresh + dry basil, sliced garlic, California Olive Ranch EVOO post bake
Cheese pizza is DOP Parmigiano Reggiano, Saputo Gold aged mozzarella, Bel Fiore Organic fresh mozzarella, Los Altos Menonita  + organic wild Greek oregano

Bake time is 4 minutes.

Dough
500 flour
305 water
12 salt
1/8t IDY

14" TF=.075 330g dough balls

I feel like my last few bakes have been so good, maybe the pictures are poor but the pies have been great. I feel like I'm suddenly honing in on where I really want to be. I know there is large debate on bake time, but it totally makes the pizza in my opinion. This dough could be 4 or 5 different pizzas easily depending just on time. I need to start weighing my cheese again because it is difficult right now for me to properly gauge. Dough flavor is excellent.

Things that are helping me a lot right now - Not going crazy with hydration, not worrying about an attractive crumb, not late balling, making a thinner pizza, and a quick bake is really doing it for me.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2016, 11:25:19 PM by invertedisdead »
the proof is in the pizza

Offline Jersey Pie Boy

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Re: Inverted's Pie Barn
« Reply #28 on: July 31, 2016, 08:50:46 AM »
Ryan--these look great!


Can you elaborate on this:
Quote
Things that are helping me a lot right now - Not going crazy with hydration, not worrying about an attractive crumb, not late balling,

Offline hammettjr

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Re: Inverted's Pie Barn
« Reply #29 on: July 31, 2016, 10:20:32 AM »
I agree about going thin and quick. It helps the melt and resulting flavor.

What do you like so much about your recent pies?
« Last Edit: July 31, 2016, 10:22:53 AM by hammettjr »
Matt

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Offline invertedisdead

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Re: Inverted's Pie Barn
« Reply #30 on: July 31, 2016, 12:47:02 PM »
Ryan--these look great!


Can you elaborate on this:

Thanks Bill!

Just my thoughts; With the right bake time I don't find high hydration necessary to keep my crumb from drying out or needing enrichment, and I think the rim on what people think of as NY pizza (whatever that is) is not big enough to have a real pretty crumb. Enrichment not being bad either, depends on what kind of pie you want to make. At 4 minutes I don't need any, at 7 minutes I probably want some.

On late balling - after seeing members like Walter and Glutenboy getting eggshell crusts without re-balling, I don't think it's necessary to get that result; and the dough balls up much easier at ambient temp. Late balling I find more necessary when doing a long CF in baggies where the dough can lose its shape. Storing the dough balls in Rubbermaid containers holds its shape. I'm not doing a bulk ferment now either.

I agree about going thin and quick. It helps the melt and resulting flavor.

What do you like so much about your recent pies?

Ingredients, thickness factor, bake setup, dough procedure. TF=.075 and a 4 minute bake with my particular setup is giving me a golden brown pie without a dried out rim that I'm loving.

I'll post my dough workflow in a few days, I want to do some more experiments before I post but my latest dough is really easy to work with and the flavor is great.
the proof is in the pizza

Offline Jersey Pie Boy

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Re: Inverted's Pie Barn
« Reply #31 on: July 31, 2016, 02:31:17 PM »
Thanks Ryan...so many variables every time,  right? If you find something you love, sticking with it is a great plan.. I'm finding I have a few go-to's ...Looking at notes time after time, patterns emerge, then I test and confirm these are favorites...Of course, there's always something to keep it interesting. Today I'm working with one DB that should have needed about 12-14 hours of RT, and that's come and gone...so I'm doing a garage-force (GF?  :-D ). Hot as blazes in the garage so I stuck the dough container in there and will keep an eye on it...If I hear a loud POP, well then I blew the lid off!

Offline invertedisdead

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Re: Inverted's Pie Barn
« Reply #32 on: July 31, 2016, 11:22:59 PM »
I'm not doing much RT fermenting right now. I pretty much try and get my dough out and preheat the oven at the same time and bake after an hour warm up. Prepping everything while I wait. I just got a food processor though so I may try prepping or making dough with that.

The reheats on the tomato/garlic/basil pie were so good, that one will be going into my rotation for sure, it reminds me of a pizza I had once. It must be the way the parm and EVOO intermingle post bake. And I think there are a lot of advantages to doing a plain base sauce and adjusting for each pie. I feel like a "pizza sauce" has to be bolder to stand up to whatever topping combo is thrown at it. By throwing down a plain tomato base you can take it anywhere, like I wouldn't have wanted oregano on this basil pie, it would have threw it off if it was in the sauce. Now I understand why some do it this way.
the proof is in the pizza

Offline invertedisdead

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Re: Inverted's Pie Barn
« Reply #33 on: August 01, 2016, 04:11:57 PM »
Just tried the food processor - the dough came together as fast as folks say.

Same formula
500 flour (100%)
305 water (61%)
12 salt (2.4%)
1/8t IDY

Pulled the dough out and let it rest for 15 or 20 minutes, balled at 330 grams (14" TF=.075) into the fridge for a few days until I want pizza. 
the proof is in the pizza

Offline norcoscia

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Re: Inverted's Pie Barn
« Reply #34 on: August 01, 2016, 05:08:44 PM »
Hi Ryan, I agree using a food processor works great, as long as you don't do any of three things - overload the food processor, over mix the dough or overheat the dough. But that is not why I'm typing this.

I can't figure out where the rest of your pizza dough went, two 330 gm balls should not have used it all up (unless I'm missing something) - no big deal but it just got me wondering ???
Norm
Baker's Pride GP-61 NG and PizzaParty Ardore (with saputo tiles) LP
Focus is NY style but do others too
Preferred Flour (for NY pies) is All Trumps BB
Preferred temperature for NY is 550F, for NP 900+F
Preferred type of yeast IDY

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Offline invertedisdead

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Re: Inverted's Pie Barn
« Reply #35 on: August 01, 2016, 06:13:36 PM »
Hi Ryan, I agree using a food processor works great, as long as you don't do any of three things - overload the food processor, over mix the dough or overheat the dough. But that is not why I'm typing this.

I can't figure out where the rest of your pizza dough went, two 330 gm balls should not have used it all up (unless I'm missing something) - no big deal but it just got me wondering ???

Hi Norm,

I hope I didn't over mix. I just pulsed it, will probably mix even less next time though. Do you think there is any importance to flour into water vs water into flour for the food processor?

As for the rest of the dough - It's used in my new dough procedure I have been messing with. Old dough. pate fermente. And I've really been liking it. I'm not bulk fermenting, using a poolish, or re-balling anymore and I think my pizza is better than ever and the workflow is simpler. Bakeries using the technique are baking every day - since I'm not it just increases in flavor until I need more dough from its own extended cold fermentation.

the proof is in the pizza

Offline norcoscia

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Re: Inverted's Pie Barn
« Reply #36 on: August 01, 2016, 06:39:05 PM »
Great idea - I have never tried this with pizza dough but it sounds really interesting. I guess if you don't get around to making any pizza in a few weeks you can just freeze the aged sponge (and pull it out when you do make a pie)?

About your question "Do you think there is any importance to flour into water vs water into flour for the food processor?", I don't know but maybe someone on this board who is much more "one with the dough" can help with an answer that makes sense. I just dumped it all in when using my food processor in the past - for over a year I have been using my Kitchenmaid mixer exclusively.

Switching gears -- I was at Winco today and I remembered someone asked about the ingredients in their dough, what's left of my brain is telling me that was you - if not, sorry for the photo  below.

PS. Thanks for the info and great idea for improving dough flavor profile - it is a keeper!!!!
Norm
Baker's Pride GP-61 NG and PizzaParty Ardore (with saputo tiles) LP
Focus is NY style but do others too
Preferred Flour (for NY pies) is All Trumps BB
Preferred temperature for NY is 550F, for NP 900+F
Preferred type of yeast IDY

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Inverted's Pie Barn
« Reply #37 on: August 01, 2016, 07:01:02 PM »
Norm,

Do you have the Nutrition Facts label for the WinCo dough and also the total weight of the dough ball?

Peter

Offline norcoscia

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Re: Inverted's Pie Barn
« Reply #38 on: August 01, 2016, 07:16:12 PM »
Sorry no - I just took a photo today - I did not buy any. I'll try to snag more info next time I'm at the store - to the best of my recollection I don't believe any nutrition info was listed on the label.

But like I said - I will check next time...
Norm
Baker's Pride GP-61 NG and PizzaParty Ardore (with saputo tiles) LP
Focus is NY style but do others too
Preferred Flour (for NY pies) is All Trumps BB
Preferred temperature for NY is 550F, for NP 900+F
Preferred type of yeast IDY

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Inverted's Pie Barn
« Reply #39 on: August 01, 2016, 07:18:08 PM »
Do you think there is any importance to flour into water vs water into flour for the food processor?
Ryan,

I addressed the above question here:

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=2189.msg19291;topicseen#msg19291

This is also a good thread on the use of a food processor:

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=12877.msg125013#msg125013

Once you understand the pros and cons of a food processor, you will be able to make just about any type of pizza dough using the processor. But you can't go too high on the hydration, and there are limitations on the amounts of dough that can be made at one time.

Peter

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