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Offline invertedisdead

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Re: Inverted's Pie Barn
« Reply #40 on: August 01, 2016, 09:56:10 PM »
Great idea - I have never tried this with pizza dough but it sounds really interesting. I guess if you don't get around to making any pizza in a few weeks you can just freeze the aged sponge (and pull it out when you do make a pie)?

About your question "Do you think there is any importance to flour into water vs water into flour for the food processor?", I don't know but maybe someone on this board who is much more "one with the dough" can help with an answer that makes sense. I just dumped it all in when using my food processor in the past - for over a year I have been using my Kitchenmaid mixer exclusively.

Switching gears -- I was at Winco today and I remembered someone asked about the ingredients in their dough, what's left of my brain is telling me that was you - if not, sorry for the photo  below.

PS. Thanks for the info and great idea for improving dough flavor profile - it is a keeper!!!!

That's what I was thinking, just freeze it. No more work than starting up another poolish but the window to work with is much longer. I first started out doing a "fridge sponge" basically a small poolish I would refrigerate with the total formula IDY and would add that in place of dry yeast minus the proper flour + water ratio to my dough as the single source of yeast. I was liking that but I figured I'm baking frequently enough that I might as well stop starting from scratch each time.

Thanks for posting that WinCo dough. They should have you re-write the directions, if people were turning out pies like you did from that store bought dough they would probably stop ringing the 'Hut!  ;D

Ryan,

I addressed the above question here:

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=2189.msg19291;topicseen#msg19291

This is also a good thread on the use of a food processor:

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=12877.msg125013#msg125013

Once you understand the pros and cons of a food processor, you will be able to make just about any type of pizza dough using the processor. But you can't go too high on the hydration, and there are limitations on the amounts of dough that can be made at one time.

Peter

Thanks Peter,

The food processor is an interesting addition as I've posted a few times where I've made dough in the blender. With such a narrow container it works better at higher hydrations, I've even done 80% ciabatta dough in it. The narrow size makes for a limited batch volume as well though. Other than doing that a few times I've made all my doughs by hand. I figure the food processor could be a good way to show friends and family how to make pizzas since it comes together so fast and people tend to be rather intimidated by dough for some reason.
the proof is in the pizza

Offline Jersey Pie Boy

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Re: Inverted's Pie Barn
« Reply #41 on: August 02, 2016, 04:44:32 AM »
Hey Ryan,


This is great stuff!  Did I miss it or could you detail your old dough procedure...the old dough itself. as well as how,  and what percent of it  go into the new dough. I'd like to play with this  :) Thanks!
 
« Last Edit: August 02, 2016, 04:47:38 AM by Jersey Pie Boy »

Offline invertedisdead

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Re: Inverted's Pie Barn
« Reply #42 on: August 02, 2016, 10:59:20 AM »
Sure Bill, I'll make a more thorough post with pictures next time I put one together.

I first started with a "fridge sponge" as I described a few posts above, which was equal parts flour and water (50-100g total) and the formulas IDY. I let that go overnight in the fridge and then brought to room temp until ripe, then added that like a levain and mixed. The fridge sponge was itself an experiment based on my flying sponge experiment. My thinking was the usability window is longer than a normal poolish, so I would always have a "flavor booster" on hand if someone wanted pizza today - but like I said, why start from scratch every week. That's where the old dough comes in instead.

I noted somewhere I was coming up short when scaling my final dough, so I started doing my doughs in even bakers percents like many of the Neapolitan pizza makers do in 500 or 1000g batches. I'm doing two 330g dough balls and saving 100g of old dough, which is around 12% with this formula leaves enough extra dough to adjust your thickness factor on two 14" pizzas up to around .092 (I'm at .075)

All I think that's important is that you get some flavor into your dough and save some. I don't think it matters too much how you go about it and what formula you use, so long as you leave some for next time.

I might adjust this formula down to exacts when I get a new scale, but for now this provides some adjustability.

The formula is
500 flour (100%)
305 water (61%)
12 salt (2.4%)
.4 IDY (.2%) 1/8 teaspoon

Which for me is 100g of Old Dough + 438g flour + 267g water + salt & IDY.

To make dough I remove the old dough from the fridge
Measure out the remaining formula water (267g in this case) at a pretty warm temperature and add that to the old dough.
I let it double hydrate for 20 or 30 minutes to bring it up to temp and make it easy to incorporate like a sponge instead of a biga.
Depending on mix technique this may not be necessary. Especially with the food processor but most of my experience is based on hand mixing.
I mix and knead until moderate gluten development
Rest for 10-20 minutes
Ball; and refrigerate in containers greased with coconut oil.

No poolish, no bulk ferment, no late ball. Everything is done in one step.

"old dough" double hydrated in the remaining formula water, ready to be incorporated.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2016, 04:41:46 PM by invertedisdead »
the proof is in the pizza

Offline Jersey Pie Boy

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Re: Inverted's Pie Barn
« Reply #43 on: August 02, 2016, 09:26:26 PM »
Thanks Ryan...but you know I'm math-challenged, to  wit:


I don't quite see what percent of the total dough weight is old dough...and I do see that you're including the amount of water in the old dough into the total formula water. Does that mean you always use the same formula for the old dough? And you base the amount of water on the  weight of the old dough that's used in the new dough?


After they go into fridge how long are you holding them before bake..same day, overnight, multi-day?  Have you done a taste-test comparison to a poolish with same flour and hydration?
 
Thanks!

Offline invertedisdead

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Re: Inverted's Pie Barn
« Reply #44 on: August 02, 2016, 10:24:46 PM »
Thanks Ryan...but you know I'm math-challenged, to  wit:


I don't quite see what percent of the total dough weight is old dough...and I do see that you're including the amount of water in the old dough into the total formula water. Does that mean you always use the same formula for the old dough? And you base the amount of water on the  weight of the old dough that's used in the new dough?


After they go into fridge how long are you holding them before bake..same day, overnight, multi-day?  Have you done a taste-test comparison to a poolish with same flour and hydration?
 
Thanks!

I hear ya with that math thing!  ;D

Maybe someone will chime in and double check me. 100 grams of old dough divided by 817 (total weight) = .1223 x100 (%) = 12.2%
This doesn't include the IDY weight which is .4 grams according to the Lehmann calculator. My scale only measures in 1 gram increments so I didn't bother adding it to the above equation. I'm including the water and flour of the old dough at 61% hydration, yes same hydration each time - which I know could be a difficult concept for us tinkerers. I must admit it's about the longest I've held a hydration too; but I find 61% is great for me at a 4 minute bake. I might adjust it or enrich it with some oil if I was to do a 7 minute bake. One thing I haven't adjusted for is the salt in the old dough which might be important depending on where you want to be with salt.

I've been doing around a 3-4 day CF with the dough, and usually will make dough the next day or two after with the old dough. Roy's thread inspired me a bit with this as he is cold fermenting for a very extended time so I figured the dough should be fine for quite a few days. I was doing poolish, bulk ferment, and re-ball before and I don't feel like I'm losing anything. The test I really want to do is a fast dough to see how much flavor is really in my old dough. All I know is my last few pies have been really good. 4 minute bake, stone on the lowest rack, broiler on the full bake. Maybe it's just me but it seems to be less chewy than when I use oil, but maybe because I usually use oil on longer bakes. I really like a 4 minute pie, it's still fresh and tender like a fast pie, not dried out; but in long enough to get good malliard reaction browning and a crispness on the bottom. Would be interesting to see what happens with a steel.
the proof is in the pizza

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Offline Jersey Pie Boy

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Re: Inverted's Pie Barn
« Reply #45 on: August 02, 2016, 11:27:16 PM »
Thanks for the extra explanation, Ryan...you're doing great work..wish we could all taste each other's  pies, it's so ironic that we can see and know everything about fellow members' pies, except for the most important part of all...how they taste!

Offline invertedisdead

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Re: Inverted's Pie Barn
« Reply #46 on: August 03, 2016, 12:44:37 AM »
Yeah, it would be really interesting to see how things compared.
the proof is in the pizza

Offline Jersey Pie Boy

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Re: Inverted's Pie Barn
« Reply #47 on: August 03, 2016, 04:50:00 AM »
My only real-life tasting has been at Norma's.. ,,,They are outstanding flavor, texture, all-around great pies. We tried her regular boardwalk pie, an  Americana and a Detroit...all so good!
 

Offline norcoscia

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Re: Inverted's Pie Barn
« Reply #48 on: August 03, 2016, 08:01:25 AM »
Ryan's pies look so good -- one time I decided to print one out on my inkjet and have a taste - then I realized... that would not work - the printer would totally mess up the TF  :-D
Norm
Baker's Pride GP-61 NG and PizzaParty Ardore (with saputo tiles) LP
Focus is NY style but do others too
Preferred Flour (for NY pies) is All Trumps BB
Preferred temperature for NY is 550F, for NP 900+F
Preferred type of yeast IDY

Offline Jersey Pie Boy

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Re: Inverted's Pie Barn
« Reply #49 on: August 03, 2016, 08:17:22 AM »
Though I hear Sclafani makes a fine red ink  :-D >:D


Hey Norm, by the way, we reheated those leftover slices in a Breville toaster oven back at the airbnb, and they were as good..or maybe even more amazing..than the night we got them. Only thing missing was you guys and Brian  :) 

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Offline norcoscia

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Re: Inverted's Pie Barn
« Reply #50 on: August 03, 2016, 09:51:06 AM »
Thanks Bill and I'm glad the reheat turned out so good. Also, thanks for the info on paper bag pizza. I checked it out online and it looks great, plus they make a pie with cashew cheese so that is something my wife is interested in trying.
Norm
Baker's Pride GP-61 NG and PizzaParty Ardore (with saputo tiles) LP
Focus is NY style but do others too
Preferred Flour (for NY pies) is All Trumps BB
Preferred temperature for NY is 550F, for NP 900+F
Preferred type of yeast IDY

Offline Jersey Pie Boy

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Re: Inverted's Pie Barn
« Reply #51 on: August 03, 2016, 12:00:45 PM »
You bet , Norm..that whole food pod is terrific. Lots of cool stuff there, and tables to enjoy it at.  Save room for ice cream at Salt and Straw a little west on Division, and/or Lauretta Jean's, around 34th/Divison south side of street, for their wonderful pies

Offline invertedisdead

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Re: Inverted's Pie Barn
« Reply #52 on: August 03, 2016, 12:28:57 PM »
I made three 275g balls for batards last night at 70% that I'm thinking of converting into Not-Even-That-Nearly-Politan pizzas for lunch  ;D
I haven't done a 2 minute pie in a while... will I yet again confirm I've had it wrong ALL ALONG!  ::)
I'm thinking Marinara.

That pizza you guys enjoyed in Portland looked great, cool experience to put a person to the pie! Toaster oven reheat is solid. I've been without a toaster oven for a while, had one forever til it kicked the crumb tray. I usually reheat on the stove, pan over medium heat with the lid on; but I've always been the cold pizza addict, and I really don't mind/possibly prefer cold slices straight from the fridge. My FAVORITE slice being a fresh one cooled to room temp an hour or two after bake  ;D



the proof is in the pizza

Offline Jersey Pie Boy

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Re: Inverted's Pie Barn
« Reply #53 on: August 03, 2016, 02:52:50 PM »
Yup, I do the skillet with cover at home too..our toaster oven is fairly worthless...this airbnb had a great one and it made quick work of two huge slices at a time.

Offline invertedisdead

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Re: Inverted's Pie Barn
« Reply #54 on: August 03, 2016, 04:24:33 PM »
500
350
9
1/8t

The dough was inspired by Mitch's bread. I wasn't planning on making pizza much less this style. I would probably bump the salt up to make this style but they were still really good. I seasoned them with coarse sea salt to try to make up for it.

The tomato pieces were probably a bit too big. And I should have wetted the basil more as it cooked a bit too much. Maybe I should do basil post bake with the intensity of the broiler. These were 90 seconds, stone on the top shelf, broiler full bake. I turn the broiler on before I stretch and top the dough to give it a few minutes to kick in and blast the stone. That's where steel would come in I bet.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2016, 04:28:26 PM by invertedisdead »
the proof is in the pizza

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Offline Jersey Pie Boy

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Re: Inverted's Pie Barn
« Reply #55 on: August 03, 2016, 06:40:10 PM »
They look wonderful..which recipe did you mean? AP flour?

Offline invertedisdead

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Re: Inverted's Pie Barn
« Reply #56 on: August 03, 2016, 08:43:54 PM »
They look wonderful..which recipe did you mean? AP flour?

Thanks Bill! Lehi Roller Mills Artisan Unbleached All Purpose flour (they have it at the .99 cent store in SoCal) Someone got it for me, first time trying it. Tastes good!
Just a 70% hydrated AP dough, 1.8% salt. I was going to make bread and try doing less salt so that's why the number is a bit low.
the proof is in the pizza

Offline Jersey Pie Boy

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Re: Inverted's Pie Barn
« Reply #57 on: August 03, 2016, 09:09:59 PM »
It's really an amazing bake for a home oven! 90 secs! How long did your stone need to reheat between pies? Did you say you weren't IR'ing these??!! based on that time, and the look of the rim and underside, wouldn't be you be in the 800 zone ? In a home oven? Come on buddy, 'fess up: You got a rocket launcher in there, right? ;) >:D :-D   

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Inverted's Pie Barn
« Reply #58 on: August 03, 2016, 10:02:13 PM »
 ^^^

I would not have thought you could get a bottom that looks like those on stone (or steel for that matter) in an unmodded home oven.
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Offline invertedisdead

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Re: Inverted's Pie Barn
« Reply #59 on: August 03, 2016, 10:34:45 PM »
It's really an amazing bake for a home oven! 90 secs! How long did your stone need to reheat between pies? Did you say you weren't IR'ing these??!! based on that time, and the look of the rim and underside, wouldn't be you be in the 800 zone ? In a home oven? Come on buddy, 'fess up: You got a rocket launcher in there, right? ;) >:D :-D   

Thanks Bill - Probably 5-10 minutes between pies. I don't have an IR, I wish I did, I'd like to know the temp. I've never done a pie this fast ever, might be my first time eating a 90 second pie because even a lot of the wood fired places are doing 2-3 minute pizzas. It's challenging with no window to know when its done without losing all the heat.

^^^

I would not have thought you could get a bottom that looks like those on stone (or steel for that matter) in an unmodded home oven.

I'm surprised too, I haven't made this style in a while and I've never gotten under 2 minutes. All I can think of is I recently was given a 13" stone - probably from a toaster oven, which I have underneath my cracked 15" stone for extra support. 1 hour preheat, old Kenmore electric oven.
the proof is in the pizza

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