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Offline norma427

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How the NY dough balls baked in another oven
« on: February 05, 2017, 08:06:06 PM »
I had talked with Dan of Dan's Paper Plate about the pizza oven that is at their stand at Root's Market.  I had quickly looked at it when I was over there one time, but didn't think to look it over well.  Didn't even know the brand name it had on it.  I had asked Dan yesterday if sometime I could try out the pizza oven, because Dan told me they don't sell pizzas anymore.  He said I could try the oven out anytime.  I took one frozen dough ball that is usually sold to my customers and put it in the deli case yesterday afternoon.  Dan told me late this morning I could come over to his and Steven's stand today to try out the pizza oven.  I didn't have any sauce ready or any cheese grated.  When I got to market I took another frozen dough ball out of the freezer, and tried to unfreeze some sauce.  The dough ball in the deli case hadn't risen at all.  Both of them were placed in the heating cabinet.  The one dough ball sure didn't do much of anything but it at least defrosted.

Dan and Steven told me that they didn't think the top two decks had any heat and maybe the thermostat might be broken for  the top oven.  They said they never used the top ovens because they thought they didn't work.  They made frozen pizzas in the bottom part of the oven and baked at 425 degrees F.  They told me the bottom stones were dirty from parts of the pizzas falling on the stones. I took the IR gun along and the top oven worked fine.  The oven can go up to 700 degrees F, but didn't try that today.

I was just happy to bake in another oven.  The first pizza when in the oven when the temp was about 550 degrees F.  The second pizza when into the top oven at a little higher temperature.  At least the dough balls were very easy to open. 

The first pizza was dressed with the sauce first, some hard grated cheeses, then Saputo whole milk mozzarella and finally pepperoni.  The second pizza was top the way a boardwalk style of pizza is made and with cheddar, but had hard cheese added after the spiral sauce application. 

It was a lot of fun to bake in this oven, but would love to bake more pizzas at different temperatures and have doughs that are fermented longer.  Dan and Steven gave the oven to me, but am not sure what I am going to do with it. 

I had looked on the internet this morning to see if I could find out anything about the pizza oven after Dan sent me some photos.  All I could find is a link here to the forum about someone else wanting to know about the same pizza oven and the link below.  The oven can baked four 18 pizzas at a time.  Seems like the oven was invented around 1955.

Sorry the photos aren't too good.  There was not much light there today.

The top and sides of the oven don't even get that hot so the oven might be insulated well.  If anyone knows anything else about this oven let me know.

Pizzaazzip Harvic mfg. Corp.

https://books.google.com/books?id=mx4EAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA55&lpg=PA55&dq=pizza+oven+manufactured+by+harvic+mfg.+corp+NY+NY&source=bl&ots=N9SXVcaQXT&sig=fDgmJ4MHdkN71IkNhylIlZDBxzQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj7s773rPnRAhVKw4MKHSqPCTIQ6AEIGjAA#v=onepage&q=pizza%20oven%20manufactured%20by%20harvic%20mfg.%20corp%20NY%20NY&f=false

Norma

Offline norma427

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Re: How the NY dough balls baked in another oven
« Reply #1 on: February 05, 2017, 08:10:12 PM »
Norma

Offline norma427

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Re: How the NY dough balls baked in another oven
« Reply #2 on: February 05, 2017, 08:14:07 PM »
Norma

Offline norma427

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Re: How the NY dough balls baked in another oven
« Reply #3 on: February 05, 2017, 08:18:48 PM »
BTW,  This is Dan of Dan's Paper Plates at Root's.  There are other videos on the web about Dan now that the Queen of England likes his Ham and Bean Soup.



http://lancasteronline.com/features/queen-of-england-s-estate-now-serves-this-soup-from/article_6dcd65fc-dcfc-11e6-a242-0b29360e3631.html

Norma


Offline Zing

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Re: How the NY dough balls baked in another oven
« Reply #4 on: February 08, 2017, 05:51:13 PM »
I came to this thread after reading your recent reply on the other thread. It brought a wave of nostalgia over me. There was a time when they actually manufactured a lot of stuff in New York City. Some was great. I'm lucky I survived using some of the junk they made there. There was a company in the Bronx that made a tinny electric oven something like a toaster oven that sold for something like 5 dollars. It had a nichrome coiled element on the top of the oven suspended by ceramic insulators. Trouble was the nichrome was uninsulated and if you put a utensil in the oven and it touched the nichrome, you got a shock.

Checking the NYS Corporations listing shows Harvic started in 1952 as the Harvic Supply Corporation and became Harvic Manufacturing in 1955. The corporation was dissolved by Proclamation/Annulment of Authority on Dec 29, 1982, so they probably went out of business a few years prior. Some old articles in Billboard show an office at 154 Nassau Street in Manhattan's financial district. Pace University is now on that spot. The spot where the factory was in the Melrose section of the Bronx now has an apartment house on it. Baker's Pride was still in the Bronx at that time, as was Farberware.

As far as what Harvic produced, the only thing I could find was an equipment listing from January 1968 here:
http://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/ED025903.pdf
I am enclosing a screenshot of the pizza oven section of the equipment listing.

I never saw anyone using these ovens in NYC, nor heard of this brand until today. Every oven I saw used gas. Perhaps someone will come along who had experience with this company's pizza ovens and give us a review of performance.

I can't remember if the present oven at your stand uses gas. A straight-line calculation, assuming I am reading the label correctly that the wattage is 5,700 watts, shows it will draw 24.8 Amps @ 230 volts if all sections are calling for heat. A gas oven will be cheaper to run.

The other consideration is maintenance. Most of those assemblers in the Bronx did not manufacture their own electrical components. The switches and indicator lamps shown in the photos are readily available. Those gadgets with red knobs are mechanical timers similar to the old Lux kitchen timers. According to manuals I have on other ovens, they do not control oven operation. While Harvic had their name on the thermostat knob, back then just about everyone was buying the thermostats themselves from Robertshaw. If a modern replacement is not compatible, there are a few firms around the country that rebuild obsolete gas and electric oven thermostats. After that, I don't know what the availability of heating elements and steel mechanical parts is.

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Offline norma427

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Re: How the NY dough balls baked in another oven
« Reply #5 on: February 08, 2017, 09:07:31 PM »
I came to this thread after reading your recent reply on the other thread. It brought a wave of nostalgia over me. There was a time when they actually manufactured a lot of stuff in New York City. Some was great. I'm lucky I survived using some of the junk they made there. There was a company in the Bronx that made a tinny electric oven something like a toaster oven that sold for something like 5 dollars. It had a nichrome coiled element on the top of the oven suspended by ceramic insulators. Trouble was the nichrome was uninsulated and if you put a utensil in the oven and it touched the nichrome, you got a shock.

Checking the NYS Corporations listing shows Harvic started in 1952 as the Harvic Supply Corporation and became Harvic Manufacturing in 1955. The corporation was dissolved by Proclamation/Annulment of Authority on Dec 29, 1982, so they probably went out of business a few years prior. Some old articles in Billboard show an office at 154 Nassau Street in Manhattan's financial district. Pace University is now on that spot. The spot where the factory was in the Melrose section of the Bronx now has an apartment house on it. Baker's Pride was still in the Bronx at that time, as was Farberware.

As far as what Harvic produced, the only thing I could find was an equipment listing from January 1968 here:
http://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/ED025903.pdf
I am enclosing a screenshot of the pizza oven section of the equipment listing.

I never saw anyone using these ovens in NYC, nor heard of this brand until today. Every oven I saw used gas. Perhaps someone will come along who had experience with this company's pizza ovens and give us a review of performance.

I can't remember if the present oven at your stand uses gas. A straight-line calculation, assuming I am reading the label correctly that the wattage is 5,700 watts, shows it will draw 24.8 Amps @ 230 volts if all sections are calling for heat. A gas oven will be cheaper to run.

The other consideration is maintenance. Most of those assemblers in the Bronx did not manufacture their own electrical components. The switches and indicator lamps shown in the photos are readily available. Those gadgets with red knobs are mechanical timers similar to the old Lux kitchen timers. According to manuals I have on other ovens, they do not control oven operation. While Harvic had their name on the thermostat knob, back then just about everyone was buying the thermostats themselves from Robertshaw. If a modern replacement is not compatible, there are a few firms around the country that rebuild obsolete gas and electric oven thermostats. After that, I don't know what the availability of heating elements and steel mechanical parts is.

Zing,

I am glad to hear this thread brought a wave of nostalgia over you.  Lol, about surviving some of the junk they made in NYC.  That sure was bad about the tinny electric oven that was something like a toaster oven.   :o

Thanks so much for researching information about Harvic!  I didn't know that Baker's Pride was in the Bronx at that time.  Did Baker's Pride manufacture their ovens there?

Since there isn't much of any articles about the Harvic pizza ovens, probably not many pizzerias used them.  Before Dan's Paper Plate was there, the stand was called Mel's and before that it was called Greg's.  When going way back to Greg's at Root's that was a long time ago.  That leads me to think that Greg's probably got it used, or maybe even new.  The stones on the deck seem like they might be transite.  They didn't look cracked or broken so maybe they might be safe to use. 

Yes, I do use propane for the oven at market.  I thought it would be cheaper to operated than the Harvic electric one.  The one reason I would be interested in the Harvic oven is to put in my shed to play around with. 

Thanks also for telling me about the switches, indicator lamps and they are readily available.  I didn't try the mechanical timers.  Robertshaw's came up when I talked with Madeline about the Frank Mastro ovens.  I wish I could find more information about Robertshaw and how they helped Frank Mastro convert his ovens to gas.  Did you ever read how Frank Mastro invented gas deck ovens for NY pizzas?

I really didn't have enough time to play around with the Harvic oven.  I was just trying to see if it worked.  I even forgot the cheeses that were in the deli case when I already had the first pizza dressed with sauce.  I then did a fast running act to get the cheeses.  Luckily the pizza didn't stick to the peel.  :-D

Thanks again!

Norma 

Offline Zing

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Re: How the NY dough balls baked in another oven
« Reply #6 on: February 10, 2017, 06:41:11 AM »
Baker's Pride started manufacturing ovens in the Bronx in 1945. Some time afterwards they moved to a larger factory in nearby New Rochelle, NY. That plant closed in 2009; owner Standex owns other food service equipment companies and moved production to other plants.

I don't know the details of Robertshaw's  involvement with the Mastro/Blodgett oven, but typically component manufacturers get contacted by equipment assemblers if a component needs to be designed for a new product.

Offline norma427

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Re: How the NY dough balls baked in another oven
« Reply #7 on: February 10, 2017, 09:04:17 AM »
Baker's Pride started manufacturing ovens in the Bronx in 1945. Some time afterwards they moved to a larger factory in nearby New Rochelle, NY. That plant closed in 2009; owner Standex owns other food service equipment companies and moved production to other plants.

I don't know the details of Robertshaw's  involvement with the Mastro/Blodgett oven, but typically component manufacturers get contacted by equipment assemblers if a component needs to be designed for a new product.

Zing,

Thanks a lot for the addition information about Baker's Pride and Robertshaw's.

Norma

Offline Burl

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Re: How the NY dough balls baked in another oven
« Reply #8 on: December 01, 2019, 10:53:00 PM »
The mention of Harvic ovens brought back memories of my youth.  My Dad has a tool and die shop in the same building as Harvic. 760 St Ann's Ave in the Bronx was the old Ebling brewery building. Ebling went out of business about 1950 and the building became a place for a number of varied manufacturers to rent space. There were a couple of machine shops a bunch of cut and sew clotting shops a plastic molding shop and on the first floor to the left side of the building Harvic.

My Dad did work for Harvic and Harvic let him use their spot welders in the early 1960's.  Harvic made electric pizza oven primarily. I had one a long time as my Dad used it to temper heat treated steel after first heating in a gas furnace and quenching. The small electric counter top oven got hot enough to heat a block of steel to 500F.  In the Bronx in the 60's was al kinds of manufacturing, mostly for the local NY and NJ market. Now everything is made by corporate giants.  Local companies employed local people and gave benefits back to their communities

Harvic also marketed a under broiler unit call Char-kel if I am spelling it right. Th united was made for grilling meat by placing it on heated cal rods. The rods made nice grill marks. I think the airlines were using these units to make fancy 1960's airline steaks.   They printed all their own literature and marketing pieces in house. Their print shop was in a tiled room in the brewery that I assumed to be a bottling room. 

A really cool thing about the old brewery building was it has rock caves on the first floor for aging. Look up Ebling Brewery Bronx NY.  The Harvic shop had a large wooden refrigerator door in the rear that opened into a cave at about the center of the building. They used it to store work in process ovens and grills.  My dad moved his hop to Rockland County NY in about 1969, Harvic was still at St Ann's Ave when he moved.  I did not know how much market share they had but I kept seeing their units in the New York area. Even 60 years later!

I recently talked to a old guy (my age) who's Dad had a machine shop on the other side of the old Ebling brewery.  It was there until the late 1970's when the building went abandoned. It was torn down in the late 1980;s or 90's and there is a new block of apartments there today. When they started building the new building they found the caves. I was contacted by the City engineer about the caves as to how many and where. She saw my post in 2008 in a beer blog about the old brewery.

Offline norma427

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Re: How the NY dough balls baked in another oven
« Reply #9 on: December 02, 2019, 03:37:15 AM »
The mention of Harvic ovens brought back memories of my youth.  My Dad has a tool and die shop in the same building as Harvic. 760 St Ann's Ave in the Bronx was the old Ebling brewery building. Ebling went out of business about 1950 and the building became a place for a number of varied manufacturers to rent space. There were a couple of machine shops a bunch of cut and sew clotting shops a plastic molding shop and on the first floor to the left side of the building Harvic.

My Dad did work for Harvic and Harvic let him use their spot welders in the early 1960's.  Harvic made electric pizza oven primarily. I had one a long time as my Dad used it to temper heat treated steel after first heating in a gas furnace and quenching. The small electric counter top oven got hot enough to heat a block of steel to 500F.  In the Bronx in the 60's was al kinds of manufacturing, mostly for the local NY and NJ market. Now everything is made by corporate giants.  Local companies employed local people and gave benefits back to their communities

Harvic also marketed a under broiler unit call Char-kel if I am spelling it right. Th united was made for grilling meat by placing it on heated cal rods. The rods made nice grill marks. I think the airlines were using these units to make fancy 1960's airline steaks.   They printed all their own literature and marketing pieces in house. Their print shop was in a tiled room in the brewery that I assumed to be a bottling room. 

A really cool thing about the old brewery building was it has rock caves on the first floor for aging. Look up Ebling Brewery Bronx NY.  The Harvic shop had a large wooden refrigerator door in the rear that opened into a cave at about the center of the building. They used it to store work in process ovens and grills.  My dad moved his hop to Rockland County NY in about 1969, Harvic was still at St Ann's Ave when he moved.  I did not know how much market share they had but I kept seeing their units in the New York area. Even 60 years later!

I recently talked to a old guy (my age) who's Dad had a machine shop on the other side of the old Ebling brewery.  It was there until the late 1970's when the building went abandoned. It was torn down in the late 1980;s or 90's and there is a new block of apartments there today. When they started building the new building they found the caves. I was contacted by the City engineer about the caves as to how many and where. She saw my post in 2008 in a beer blog about the old brewery.

Burl,

Glad the mention of Harvic pizza ovens brought back memories of your youth.  Interesting your Dad had a tool and die shop in the same building as Harvic and work for them.  Thanks for all of the information about all of kinds of manufacturing going on in the Bronx in the 60's. 

Those rock caves sure sound cool! 

There is a Harvic pizza warmer on Ebay now. 
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-NYC-Harvic-Countertop-Pizza-Oven-Warmer-Model-F-12-Works-Sold-As-Is-/293143273321?_trksid=p2385738.m4383.l4275.c10

Not sure what happened to the Harvic pizza oven at market.  I was told by Dan I could have it, but he soon sold his business and am guessing the new owners might still be using it to bake pizzas with premade crusts.  Never really had time to go check out if they still are using it.

What happened to your Harvic oven?

Norma

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Offline Burl

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Re: How the NY dough balls baked in another oven
« Reply #10 on: December 03, 2019, 08:28:01 PM »
What happened to my Dads Harvic Oven?  Good question. I don't remember selling it when I clean out his shop. I may have left it with the other things I did not move or sell or he may have given it to someone when I was not around. 

Still amazing that units from the 50's and 60's are out there still working.

Best regards Happy baking
Burl

Offline Burl

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Re: How the NY dough balls baked in another oven
« Reply #11 on: December 03, 2019, 08:32:59 PM »
The one on ebay you sent the link to was real similar to the one my Dad had. I don't remember it have nichrome coils but it may have.  It did have a slide out drawer.
It is in Portland Oregon. I bet it could tell great stories if it could talk.

Offline norma427

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Re: How the NY dough balls baked in another oven
« Reply #12 on: December 03, 2019, 08:50:29 PM »
What happened to my Dads Harvic Oven?  Good question. I don't remember selling it when I clean out his shop. I may have left it with the other things I did not move or sell or he may have given it to someone when I was not around. 

Still amazing that units from the 50's and 60's are out there still working.

Best regards Happy baking
Burl

Thanks Burl! 

Agree that it is amazing that units from the 50's and 60's are out there and still working.  I am getting an oven from the 60's and hope it still works good.  It does look ok and the place told me it is in working condition. 

Happy baking to you too!  :chef: :pizza:

Norma

Offline norma427

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Re: How the NY dough balls baked in another oven
« Reply #13 on: December 03, 2019, 08:54:22 PM »
The one on ebay you sent the link to was real similar to the one my Dad had. I don't remember it have nichrome coils but it may have.  It did have a slide out drawer.
It is in Portland Oregon. I bet it could tell great stories if it could talk.

Burl,

I must have missed that the one on Ebay had nichrome coils.  Your Dad sure could tell you a lot of stories about those ovens and the Harvic ones.  Wish I would have understood more about that Harvic oven when I got to try it and also could have tried a fresh dough in it.

Yes, bet it could tell great stories if it could talk.  Think I read an article that the Harvic could pump out 40 pizzas an hour.  That is a lot of pizzas for such a small pizza oven.

Norma

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