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Author Topic: Lucali; has anyone come close?  (Read 88857 times)

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Offline hotsawce

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Lucali; has anyone come close?
« on: February 10, 2017, 11:10:10 PM »
I'm still trying to replicate Lucali/Giuseppina's pizza but haven't come close yet.

I know it's just flour (confirmed bromated, red bag all trumps,) water, salt and yeast. No oil or sugar. I can't determine the hydration or TF...I suspect the TF is evenly distributed along the entire pizza given the look of the cornicione (I haven't seen another cornicione similar.) I "think" it may be around 0.063. Doughs are also rolled out with wine bottles and left to sit until ready to use.

The sauce is just tomatoes with a little garlic cooked in olive oil, basil, salt, and pepper (according to a foot network segment.

My problem is getting those interesting, wide and flat bubbles/pockets in the cornicione. I haven't been able to get it on my baking steel.

Anyone have any ideas?

Offline rparker

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Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
« Reply #1 on: February 16, 2017, 06:59:58 AM »
Here's a video I stumbled upon a couple of months ago when researching something else. The second segment features Lucali.


Offline Jersey Pie Boy

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Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2017, 03:48:18 PM »
Lou, Roy..


What kind of sliced white cheese is that on Lucali's pie? A type of fresh mozz? It looks like it melts beautifully but doesn't oil off.. or am I misunderstanding something.


That place looks so great...even if f there were no pizza (what???!!!) ) the surroundings and vibe seem wonderful!

Offline Gianni5

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Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
« Reply #3 on: February 16, 2017, 05:29:57 PM »
Here's my second attempt at it
This has high gluten flour, 57% water, 1.5% oil, 2.5% salt, fresh yeast 24 hour cold ferment

I think no oil next time and I think I need to not too so close to the edge. In watching that video there's like a solid 3 inches from the sauce to the edge of the pizza.
Also I need to use a lot less fresh mozz and smaller pieces too. It needed to break down more.
This pizza did eat really well though. Bake time was 4.5 minutes at 650

Offline Gianni5

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Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
« Reply #4 on: February 16, 2017, 05:31:35 PM »
I think that cheese in the video might be scamorza.

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Offline thezaman

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Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
« Reply #5 on: February 17, 2017, 04:30:43 PM »
the pizza above looks pretty darn close!!!bake time?

HarryHaller73

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Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
« Reply #6 on: February 17, 2017, 09:25:05 PM »
I'm still trying to replicate Lucali/Giuseppina's pizza but haven't come close yet.

I know it's just flour (confirmed bromated, red bag all trumps,) water, salt and yeast. No oil or sugar. I can't determine the hydration or TF...I suspect the TF is evenly distributed along the entire pizza given the look of the cornicione (I haven't seen another cornicione similar.) I "think" it may be around 0.063. Doughs are also rolled out with wine bottles and left to sit until ready to use.

The sauce is just tomatoes with a little garlic cooked in olive oil, basil, salt, and pepper (according to a foot network segment.

My problem is getting those interesting, wide and flat bubbles/pockets in the cornicione. I haven't been able to get it on my baking steel.

Anyone have any ideas?

it's basically a low hydration cold fermented NY dough baked in a 700+ degree wood fire oven for 2 minutes.  it's a soft crust, moist innards, uniform ashy crust color probably has sugar.   the big oven spring at the rim is high oven temp and the weakened gluten via CF which causes it to puff bigly.

« Last Edit: February 17, 2017, 09:42:38 PM by HarryHaller73 »

HarryHaller73

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Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
« Reply #7 on: February 17, 2017, 09:32:40 PM »
Here's a video I stumbled upon a couple of months ago when researching something else. The second segment features Lucali.


btw that ball that hit the wall in the bocce game was dead.  gotta hit another ball before hits the wall..

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
« Reply #8 on: February 17, 2017, 11:14:10 PM »
My problem is getting those interesting, wide and flat bubbles/pockets in the cornicione. I haven't been able to get it on my baking steel.

Anyone have any ideas?

A lot of that comes from pulling the dough out and smashing down the dough really thin all the way to the edge. Rolling out the dough will get a similar look.
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, baker's yeast when we must, but always great pizza."  
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Offline PizzaJerk

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Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
« Reply #9 on: February 18, 2017, 11:30:27 AM »
it's basically a low hydration cold fermented NY dough baked in a 700+ degree wood fire oven for 2 minutes.  it's a soft crust, moist innards, uniform ashy crust color probably has sugar.   the big oven spring at the rim is high oven temp and the weakened gluten via CF which causes it to puff bigly.

Most likely no added sugar as he stated at the start of the thread. What I do believe is that it is no more than a 24hr CF leaving enough residual sugars from the malted flour to evenly brown the rim. Rolling the dough pushing the air to the rim with that oven temp really springs it up. Not so sure about a real low hydration, maybe somewhere around 60?

 Craig, you made mention when you were using a BBQ grill about the malts really showing through around 700+. Lucali's bake makes me think of that.

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HarryHaller73

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Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
« Reply #10 on: February 18, 2017, 11:33:50 PM »
Most likely no added sugar as he stated at the start of the thread. What I do believe is that it is no more than a 24hr CF leaving enough residual sugars from the malted flour to evenly brown the rim. Rolling the dough pushing the air to the rim with that oven temp really springs it up. Not so sure about a real low hydration, maybe somewhere around 60?

 Craig, you made mention when you were using a BBQ grill about the malts really showing through around 700+. Lucali's bake makes me think of that.

Disagree, I think there's sugar to get the uniform ashy grey/brown color within 2-3 minutes in the wood oven.  Their calzones exhibit this further.  The malt isn't enough to get this color I've dropped All trumps in a wood oven, and don't get that color in 2 minutes.    Craig is right, it is rolled with a wine bottle. 

It isn't TF 0.06 either.. it's not ultra thin crust, it's a NY dough in a wood oven, which creates a kind of hybrid result.  The massive bloating in the rim is the oven temp + cold ferment/weaker gluten even after smashed down with a wine bottle, probably inexorbitant amount of yeast too.

It's baked fast, to basically make a soft NY pie with moist innard.  It's not crunchy.  It's frankensteined NY/NP.


« Last Edit: February 19, 2017, 10:42:47 AM by HarryHaller73 »

Offline hotsawce

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Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
« Reply #11 on: February 19, 2017, 02:17:16 AM »
That pie up there looks like it's almost close to Lucali!

It could be 0.063 TF. There is no cornicione...it's pretty even across the entire pie and it is definitely thinner than a typical NY slice not only in the cornicione but in the center of the pizza as well. I don't think it's above a 0.07 TF.

The dough is only flour water salt and yeast. There is no sugar or oil.

Cheese blend is shaved (on the shaving side of a grater) low moisture mozz, buffalo mozz, post oven grana or parmigiano. basil.

I bet a 57% dough, 2% salt, rolled thin and baked at 700 for 3 minutes would nail it...

Offline Jersey Pie Boy

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Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
« Reply #12 on: February 19, 2017, 07:26:06 AM »
Lou, I haven't had one o their pizzas (sadly) but it looks and sounds along the lines of Delorenzo's..anyone see  the similarity?

HarryHaller73

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Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
« Reply #13 on: February 19, 2017, 10:04:09 AM »
That pie up there looks like it's almost close to Lucali!

It could be 0.063 TF. There is no cornicione...it's pretty even across the entire pie and it is definitely thinner than a typical NY slice not only in the cornicione but in the center of the pizza as well. I don't think it's above a 0.07 TF.

The dough is only flour water salt and yeast. There is no sugar or oil.

Cheese blend is shaved (on the shaving side of a grater) low moisture mozz, buffalo mozz, post oven grana or parmigiano. basil.

I bet a 57% dough, 2% salt, rolled thin and baked at 700 for 3 minutes would nail it...

I believe it's a higher TF.  You may think it's 0.063 but that's because the dough is heavily compressed in the opening with a roller.  The pizza isn't as light as a 0.063-0.07 TF slice you can feel it when you pick it up, it has weight.  It has the mass density of a higher TF.  Just because something is thin doesn't mean it's a low TF and TF means nothing really without specifying proof/ferment process and opening technique.  One can make a thinner pizza at 0.09 TF than one at 0.07 TF. 

Try  baking a pie with All Trumps in a wood oven, you won't get this ashy grey color in a two minute bake even though it's a malted flour.  It needs some other sweetener, sugar, maybe honey.   Also, there no way All Trumps will balloon the rim like that unless use a long CF and maybe more yeast to degrade the gluten.  If you slice through a bubble, you'll see how flawed the gluten is.

 
« Last Edit: February 19, 2017, 10:43:41 AM by HarryHaller73 »

HarryHaller73

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Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
« Reply #14 on: February 19, 2017, 10:33:13 AM »

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Offline hotsawce

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Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
« Reply #15 on: February 20, 2017, 01:11:30 AM »
What do you think it is? It's definitely not 0.09....

It's thinner than any New York style I've had.

Offline Gianni5

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Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
« Reply #16 on: February 21, 2017, 11:13:19 PM »
A little closer I think. My sauce should be a little thinner and I think I need a bit more cheese. This one was cooked for 3 minutes at just under 700 in the pizzamaster

Offline Jersey Pie Boy

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Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
« Reply #17 on: February 21, 2017, 11:34:33 PM »
That looks great! What's your HR on that one?

Offline Gianni5

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Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
« Reply #18 on: February 21, 2017, 11:42:41 PM »
57.5% water
1.5% oil

I want to make a batch of dough with no oil I just haven't got around to it
This is my regular NY dough

Offline Jersey Pie Boy

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Re: Lucali; has anyone come close?
« Reply #19 on: February 21, 2017, 11:44:36 PM »
Thanks Gianni

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