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Author Topic: Why do many home pizzas fail...  (Read 670 times)

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Offline igorpav89

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Why do many home pizzas fail...
« on: January 17, 2021, 07:17:28 AM »
Ok. So i have had enough of frustration by trying to make the perfect dough at home, spending literally ton of money and it never worked as it should.

Ps. Why do I want to do this, is because i guess many peolle here have a dream of making their on pizza place one day but are afraid as their pies are simply not up to their expectations... Well, maybe they actually are, but it is bad equipmemt an small quantities that are to blame for not so perfect results...


Why?

Simple, making dough out 1 kg of flour vs. making the dough out of 10 kg flour in professional dough machine is never going to be the same, and larger quantity with professional equipment is always going to give 10x better result.

That is why I have ordered a professional 40 liter dough machine and pro pizza oven that can go up to 400 degrees Celsius, so if anybody has a good formula but is struggling to make it work at home, posf it here, and once my equipment is in place, i will start baking different formulas, and try to finally come close, or even beat the original recipes from best NY establishments...

Regards,
IG

« Last Edit: January 17, 2021, 07:19:47 AM by igorpav89 »

Offline foreplease

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Re: Why do many home pizzas fail...
« Reply #1 on: January 17, 2021, 08:30:22 AM »
I wish you well but do not think it will be as simple as using bigger equipment. There are thousands of fine small-batch pizzas posted throughout this forum. Many people will say their finest doughs are hand mixed; something that is true here for pizza as well as bread. I have experienced it several times and while hand mixing is satisfying and successful, I do not always take the time to do so, especially for multiple pizzas.


Welcome to the forum.i hope you will post your work, thoughts, and progress once your equipment arrives.
-Tony

Offline CarryOn

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Re: Why do many home pizzas fail...
« Reply #2 on: January 17, 2021, 08:58:57 AM »
I think it's because some folks (not saying you specifically, just speaking in general terms) are chasing an unobtainable dream. They set themselves up for failure, because deep, deep in the deepest pits of their minds, and then go just a little bit deeper, there's this tiny little atom of self-doubt, of this incorrect belief that they just can't make pizza as good as the pros.

They don't know it's there, but it's there, and as they turn out pie after pie, and get more and more sciency with formulas and dough temps, trying make that nonexistent "perfect" pie, that little atom steps up after each one and says, "That ones pretty good, but...the chew isn't quite right," or "...it's just a teeny-tiny bit too dry.  Got close, though."

It's my belief that they've probably made "the perfect slice" more than once, but that little atom keeps them from realizing it.

Offline Peter B

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Re: Why do many home pizzas fail...
« Reply #3 on: January 17, 2021, 09:08:20 AM »
Amen. Perfection only exists in the mind.
I said to my little one, "come here so I can change you".
He said "change only comes from within".  :-/

Online wb54885

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Re: Why do many home pizzas fail...
« Reply #4 on: January 17, 2021, 10:00:51 AM »
In addition to giving up on “perfection,” as a chef with Michelin restaurant experience, you may need to unlearn some important things to get really good at pizza.

My personal experience with chefs who get into pizza is that they tend to over-complicate the simple parts, and under-complicate the difficult parts. Chefs in the US, for example, will push their doughs to higher hydrations than are necessary just for the “cool dude factor” of using really wet doughs, even if the pizza suffers. They are not listening to the pizza. Then they will insist on using traditional French techniques to prepare sauces and toppings, even if simple home-style recipes would save time and money and be just as delicious. Then they will advertise and photograph only the crumb of their crust, when the topping/sauce/cheese are 85% of what makes up the pizza. They will bring philosophical biases for or against certain styles of pizza into their approaches, rather than learning from all that is available. They will spend too much on ingredients that don’t fit the style or presentation and then skimp on their expensive toppings to meet food cost, so the customer experience suffers. Chefs (and sometimes bakers) think great pizza should be automatically easy to them because they mistakenly believe their existing experiences should already translate to pizza because it’s a lower-class food, and they miss important details and simple lessons as a result. Just because you enjoy classical guitar doesn’t mean you will be any good in a rock n’ roll band, unless you understand how that style of guitar playing is its own unique world with its own knowledge and rules. If you don’t love rock n’ roll music, you won’t understand how to recreate it; if you haven’t eaten and loved great pizza, how will you know what to aim for?

I can make identical doughs in small hand mixed amounts at home or 80-qt Hobart mixers. The larger equipment will not make you better at analyzing your dough—you will have to listen to it for that to happen. What the larger equipment will give you is many, many more samples of your pizza to learn from, and that is very valuable, because only experience and repetition will help you get better.
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Offline brijaco

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Re: Why do many home pizzas fail...
« Reply #5 on: January 17, 2021, 10:27:56 AM »
I really don't think you need to invest a lot of money to make good pizza. During the lockdown my friend who use to owns a popular local pizzeria was able to replicate his pizza exactly as I remember it being with just a kitchenaid, his fridge, and a countertop deck oven. I couldn't tell the difference, dough still tasted great....i mean he does still use commercial ingredients so I suppose that's the real key.

Offline mkevenson

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Re: Why do many home pizzas fail...
« Reply #6 on: January 17, 2021, 10:43:51 AM »
igorpav89, "go big or go home?". Having been making pizza at home for a while, and on these boards also, I suspect very few pizza makers here could eat or give away the volume of pies that you are suggesting with your commercial mixer and oven.
I do not believe your basic premise is valid. I believe that home pizza makers by and large are making quality pies. The nice thing is that we can eat our mistakes. We all strive to improve , not to imply that we are unhappy with our results, just that improvement is part of the baking process for the home baker.


Mark
"Gettin' better all the time" Beatles

Offline tennisman03110

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Re: Why do many home pizzas fail...
« Reply #7 on: January 17, 2021, 11:26:54 AM »
I think you're way off base, crazy talk.  I like making pizza. It's a hobby, it's fun. Some of my pizzas are darn good.

Maybe a tiny percentage of people are chasing more.

Offline hammettjr

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Re: Why do many home pizzas fail...
« Reply #8 on: January 17, 2021, 11:56:59 AM »
For me it's fun and challenging to try to make my pizza better and better. But I enjoy my pizza and am very happy with it.

My suggestion to Igor is if you're frustrated with your dough, post your process and pics here. With a little effort and the guidance of folks here, its pretty much guaranteed success (without new equipment).

Matt

Offline Peter B

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Re: Why do many home pizzas fail...
« Reply #9 on: January 17, 2021, 11:59:34 AM »
 ^^^
I said to my little one, "come here so I can change you".
He said "change only comes from within".  :-/

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Offline igorpav89

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Re: Why do many home pizzas fail...
« Reply #10 on: January 17, 2021, 12:23:02 PM »
As a professional chef, I have had a few times, for weddings for example, request from couple to have a pizza as a night food. I remember like it was yesterday, i was making pizza for my family back home a week before, and then such request comes in our restaurant, was so busy at the time that i didnt have time to go online and google doughs, yet i made same recipe dough as i made it for my family back home, only for it to turn out way much better than it did back home. The difference ls, back home i made it with 1 kg in home dough mixer and normal home oven, at work i did it with 12.5 kg, professional dough mixer and professional oven, exact same recipe...

I am speaking from the experience,, not imagination.

I tried again to do the same dough back home as, multiple times, i was confident that now i can do it, i loved it, but it never camo to be even close, to what it was when i made it in larger quantity using a professional equipment..

And now I cant wait to proove it. There will be many tests comming from me, where i will be making the same formulas in different quantities using different equipment..
« Last Edit: January 17, 2021, 12:25:44 PM by igorpav89 »

Online wb54885

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Re: Why do many home pizzas fail...
« Reply #11 on: January 17, 2021, 12:52:48 PM »
No one is saying that professional mixers and ovens aren’t helpful for making good pizza.

You’re saying that your failure to reproduce your results at home is strictly the fault of your home equipment. That is what we are saying is untrue. Unless your home oven just can’t reach above 250C, there are widely available tools and methods that can recreate very good NY style pizza at home. And many of us don’t even use mixers, so that’s no excuse either. It doesn’t make sense to me that a professional chef would assume the recipe should stay exactly the same when the equipment changes.

Best of luck to you, but it will help you to open your mind about causes and effects when it comes to baking good pizza. If you need evidence that many home pizzas do not fail, just browse through this forum.
Every oven is a law unto itself and only itself.

Offline Jon in Albany

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Re: Why do many home pizzas fail...
« Reply #12 on: January 17, 2021, 02:03:30 PM »
I understand that in your experience making the same dough formula with different equipment yielded different results and the results using professional equipment were better. However, why does everything in the preparation need to be exactly the same? In some aspects they simply can't be the same. For example, bulk fermenting a dough mass made with a 50 pound bag of flour is different than bulk fermenting three, 1 pound dough balls. They are different sizes, ambient temperatures will have a different effect on the dough masses and that can't be changed. Three hour room temp bulk ferment on these two sets of dough will not be the same and that can be shown with an internal temperature reading.

Maybe the hydration should be different at home. Maybe mixing by hand is better than the countertop mixer at home. I think my dough results mixing by hand are generally better than my dough results with the small kitchen aid I have - I think a 20 minute rest followed by a stretch and fold is much better than the C hook in that mixer. Different amounts of yeast should be used. Anyhow, the point I am trying to make is that the commercial and home settings are very different. What works in one environment might night translate well to the other.

Depending on the pizza you want to make, you can definitely make high quality pizza at home. Also, depending on the area you live (like mine in the US), I'd argue you can do better than most commercial places locally if your oven can get hot enough. Personally, I felt my home oven cooking took a big step backwards when i moved houses and the peak oven temperature went from 550 to 500F. In my case, I looked for other sources of heat at home.


Offline jkb

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Re: Why do many home pizzas fail...
« Reply #13 on: January 18, 2021, 12:24:31 PM »
I live in NY.  There are 46 pizzerias in my town.  None of them come close to the dough I make in 45 seconds in my food processor.
John

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