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Author Topic: Finally starting my build!  (Read 9652 times)

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Offline Tscarborough

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Re: Finally starting my build!
« Reply #60 on: September 23, 2017, 12:02:28 PM »
It wouldn't hurt to mortar set them anywhere not restrained by walls.

Offline BANTAR1000

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Re: Finally starting my build!
« Reply #61 on: September 25, 2017, 09:51:45 AM »
The brick company in my town did not have fire clay in stock so I figured I'd just start cutting the oven floor.   Cutting bricks is a pain!  Specially curved...

The place told me a month ago they kept height temp mortar,  but now they're saying they don't keep it and only sell heat stop at $100 per 50lb bag.  So I'm now trying to find cheaper solutions.   What's the mix of standard mortar, fire clay, sand and lime?  Is it a decent option?

Offline vtsteve

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Re: Finally starting my build!
« Reply #62 on: September 25, 2017, 10:48:09 AM »
"Homebrew refractory mortar" with 3:1:1:1*  6:1:1:1 (sand, Portland *cement*, fireclay, lime) has a lot of positive history - I think someone on the forum even used it to cast an oven, and reported no problems after several years. You want fine, sharp sand if you're cutting your bricks to fit tightly. If you search the quoted term you'll get lots of hits.

*Fixed the ratio for future readers
« Last Edit: September 26, 2017, 12:40:41 AM by vtsteve »
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Offline BANTAR1000

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Re: Finally starting my build!
« Reply #63 on: September 25, 2017, 11:31:17 AM »
Thank you Steve! 

Another question.  In the FB book it says not to use a wet pre mixed mortar.  A guy tried to sell me a pail of it saying that's all they use on wood fired kilns.   Could this stuff have changed since the book was put out?

Offline Jon in Albany

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Re: Finally starting my build!
« Reply #64 on: September 25, 2017, 11:46:57 AM »
Heat stop makes a premixed but I imagine that would cost more in the long run to bags of heat stop 50. Not sure why they are jamming you on a bag of heat stop 50. I think I paid about $50 a bag.

For me, the shavings from cutting the bricks wasn't enough fire clay and I bought a bag of it from a pottery supply place. Not sure if you have any pottery supply places near you. I lucked into one nearby.

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Offline Tscarborough

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Re: Finally starting my build!
« Reply #65 on: September 25, 2017, 02:38:57 PM »
The actual ratio is 6:1:1:1   sand/portland/lime/fireclay.

Offline BANTAR1000

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Re: Finally starting my build!
« Reply #66 on: September 25, 2017, 02:44:19 PM »
Something else I'm having a hard time understanding:

The height of the soldier brick. I'm using 9" long bricks and have cut the oven floor and the vent landing so that it will go inside the soldier course. How tall do I need to make the soldier brick?   And where does the dome height start?  At the top of the soldier brick or the top of the floor? 

I've decided to go with a 21" top, but wherever it starts from could be a big difference.

Offline BANTAR1000

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Re: Finally starting my build!
« Reply #67 on: September 25, 2017, 06:00:58 PM »
Finally got the round cut!!!

Offline Tscarborough

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Re: Finally starting my build!
« Reply #68 on: September 25, 2017, 07:08:26 PM »
Are you going to chamfer the soldier course?

Offline BANTAR1000

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Re: Finally starting my build!
« Reply #69 on: September 25, 2017, 07:37:37 PM »
Are you going to chamfer the soldier course?

Do you mean at the top, to start the dome?  My plan was to leave the tops of the soldier course is flat but I don't know how high they need to be before the start of the arch.

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Offline Tscarborough

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Re: Finally starting my build!
« Reply #70 on: September 25, 2017, 08:36:26 PM »
Ideally, the tops are chamfered and the dome starts there.

Offline Tommy G

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Re: Finally starting my build!
« Reply #71 on: September 25, 2017, 10:05:32 PM »
the soldier course should start even with the top of the deck which would make the side walls the length of a full brick. The dome would start from there. The highest point of the dome should not exceed 16 inches.

You need to cut some more bricks to border the floor deck!

Offline BANTAR1000

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Re: Finally starting my build!
« Reply #72 on: September 26, 2017, 09:21:21 AM »
Lots of questions now.  The book gives a high vault option of 21". It seems that's a little more versatile? It also says a half a brick on top of the floor.  But since I decided to put the floor inside the walls, that means I should cut the height a half plus a width (for the floor)? Half meaning 4 1/2" + 2 1/4" for the floor?  That will be the bottle of the chamfer and also the bottom of the dome?
 
One more while I'm at it:  can I alight the soldier course either way to the bottom of the floor?  Meaning the 2 1/4" side faces the floor,  OR the 4 1/2" side faces the floor?   Thanks again!

BTW the drawing of the chamfer on the brick is NOT the correct angle.  Just to show that's where I'm planning on putting the chamfer.

Offline Tommy G

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Re: Finally starting my build!
« Reply #73 on: September 26, 2017, 11:53:36 AM »
Here is how I did it.....

Offline Jon in Albany

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Re: Finally starting my build!
« Reply #74 on: September 26, 2017, 12:54:40 PM »
My 2 cents...

The difference in the dome heights are different styles of ovens. If you go with the lower height you will need to reinforce your oven wall for the outward thrust of the dome. The half sphere Pompeii oven doesn't have that outward thrust. The two styles of ovens have their own pros and cons.

The orientation of the bricks in the wall...the thick wall is a soldier course and the thinner wall is a sailor course. The soldier course is stronger, but has more mass. Again, you've got pros/cons. Just like picking a type/amount of indulation, these are design options you need to pick for what you want your oven to be.

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Offline vtsteve

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Re: Finally starting my build!
« Reply #75 on: September 26, 2017, 01:24:43 PM »
The soldier course (4.5" thickness) is more resistant to tipping (from the outward thrust of the dome), and gives more of a bond to the adjacent bricks. At 42" diameter and 16" center height (measured from the top of the floor bricks), the dome isn't too flat... you *could* run a tension band around the soldiers, but it's not really necessary IMO (I don't have one).
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Offline Tscarborough

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Re: Finally starting my build!
« Reply #76 on: September 26, 2017, 08:23:13 PM »
Ideally, you do not want a joint at floor level, nor do you want a continuous joint at the spring line.  In the case of using a full soldier/sailor, you will have a vertical wall of around 5" with the floor inside the wall.  While that is somewhat less than optimal, it is still very workable.  If you are going to lay a course of brick below the sailor/soldier, each should have 2 cuts, one for width and one for height.  To make it easier, I suggest jutting the 2-1/4 down to 1" and using that as a "shim" under the soldier/sailor to get the joint above the floor (to keep the peel from sticking in there, and yes, it does).  If you will be doing a 2 brick wall as shown by TommyG, every other soldier, should be cut in half and the chamfered topper elongate to break up that joint line.

Offline BANTAR1000

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Re: Finally starting my build!
« Reply #77 on: September 28, 2017, 01:06:29 PM »
While that is somewhat less than optimal, it is still very workable.

When  you say "less than optimal" is it too short, or too tall?    I think I've decided to lay a sailor rather than soldier course.  I want my dome height to be 21", do I have to have a vertical wall more than a half a brick (4 1/2")?

and when you said to "break up the joint line" at the top of the sailor/soldier, can you explain a little more what you mean there?  I'm not sure what that means.

Thanks!  I feel like this first course is the hardest part of the build so far and there's SO MUCH info on it, it's confusing me.

Offline Tommy G

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Re: Finally starting my build!
« Reply #78 on: September 28, 2017, 03:20:26 PM »
He is referring to the continuous joints..One at the floor and one at the top of soldier (wall). It is always better to stagger joint lines. Continuous joint lines can potentially lead to weak joints in the construction. All would agree but in this particular situation supporting the walls with steel bands to help hold walls is sufficient (workable).

The joint at deck level causing peel to get stuck?  never had an issue but I can see how it would happen. Staggering joints at chamfer? Again I agree but not necessary if using steel band for support. Most of my ovens are mobile ones and are all built this way. My original oven now has thousands of miles over the road and have not experienced any internal cracking or loose brick.

Not taking away from any of the advise Tscarborough is giving. Tons of knowledge and always willing to share. We are fortunate to have members like himself who are able to help so many! I myself have learn much from him and others. Hope to continue the journey and passing on all of the knowledge we share here!

Tommy G

Offline BANTAR1000

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Finally starting my build!
« Reply #79 on: September 28, 2017, 03:29:23 PM »
Tommy I TOTALLY agree!  People here have been amazing and I wish every subject had people willing to be so helpful! 

So I think reading your response may have made something click.  Were not talking about staggering up and down (at the top of the sailor/soldier) you mean side to side?   Is this a correct (though terribly drawn) image of the outside first few bricks with the stagger or am I missing something?

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