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Offline bobgraff

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BobGraff's Attempt at Aimless Ryan's Tommy's Pizza Clone
« on: June 26, 2017, 11:26:44 PM »
Hello All - I'm opening this thread up to chronicle my attempts at Aimless Ryan's Tommy's Pizza clone, rather than continue to hijack the main Tommy's Pizza thread.

I was inspired to try my hand at pizza making after sampling my brother's most excellent NY style pizza:  https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=47300.0

Needless to say, I have yet to master that style (see pic below).

Being a resident of Columbus and big fan of Tommy's, I decided to change directions and try Ryan's recipe.  To say I was pleased with the results would be an understatement.   :)

My goal is to create my own spin on Ryan's recipe, rather than strive to create an exact clone of Tommy's.

Ryan's recipe, for reference:  https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=12446.msg281349#msg281349

Big thanks to Ryan for all his work developing the recipe.

I'll be recapping my past, present, and future attempts in the coming posts.  Stay Tuned....

(TL;DR  pic below is my sad attempt at another recipe.  Tommy's attempts to follow)
« Last Edit: June 27, 2017, 12:42:50 AM by bobgraff »
Bob

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Offline bobgraff

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Re: BobGraff's Attempt at Aimless Ryan's Tommy's Pizza Clone
« Reply #1 on: June 26, 2017, 11:35:11 PM »
First attempt using Ryan's recipe.

Dough
821 g Gold Medal AP flour
353 g Water
12 g IDY
12 g Salt
41 g Lard (Morrell Snow Cap Manteca)
8 g Sugar

Sauce
Cento Italian Tomatoes (hand crushed, liquid removed)
1 TSP Double strength tomato paste
small pinch of sugar
small pinch of oregano

Cheese
Dusting of grated parmesan
Kroger "Pizza" cheese (mozzarella, provolone, romano, parmesan)
Fresh mozzarella, cubed (and partially frozen to delay meltage)

Pepperoni, from Carfagna's (Columbus)

I roughly followed the dough prep as outlined in Ryan's videos (quick rise in warm oven, skins rolled out and refrigerated for 18 hours). 

Assembly
The dough was lightly docked and placed on a pre-heated pan.
I was forced to cook the first pizza on a pan as the skin was nearly as big as my pizza stone and I do not currently own a peel. 

The dough was brushed with olive oil, then coated with sauce, cheeses, and pepperoni.  The pizza was cooked for 14 minutes in a 500 degree oven (I suspect the actual temp was less, due to me opening the oven several times to pop the bubbles).
« Last Edit: June 26, 2017, 11:37:22 PM by bobgraff »
Bob

"I learn each day what I need to know to do tomorrow’s work." - Arnold Toynbee

Offline bobgraff

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Re: BobGraff's Attempt at Aimless Ryan's Tommy's Pizza Clone
« Reply #2 on: June 26, 2017, 11:51:07 PM »
Second attempt - 7/18/2017.

Dough (no changes)
821 g Gold Medal AP flour
353 g Water
12 g IDY
12 g Salt
41 g Lard (Morrell Snow Cap Manteca)
8 g Sugar

Sauce
Cento Italian Tomatoes (hand crushed, liquid removed)
1 TSP Double strength tomato paste
small pinch of sugar
small pinch of oregano
small pinch of salt (new)

Dough Prep
22 hour RT bulk ferment (new)
Skins refrigerated for 20 hours

6 10-inch pizzas cooked in 2 different ovens.
Convection oven @ 500. Pizzas cooked directly on the stone (not pre-heated due to time constraints).
Conventional oven @ 500. Pizzas cooked on a pre-heated pan.

Bob

"I learn each day what I need to know to do tomorrow’s work." - Arnold Toynbee

Offline bobgraff

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Re: BobGraff's Attempt at Aimless Ryan's Tommy's Pizza Clone
« Reply #3 on: June 27, 2017, 12:12:14 AM »
New toy!

I've been finding the dough rolling to be quite tiring.  Seeing that I have somewhat successfully constructed skins out of the loose dough scraps, I figured this might aide in the process:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000T28YKC/?tag=pmak-20

The roller has 10 settings for thickness.  The last pic is a piece of scrap dough I rolled out at the thinest setting for demonstration.  I think mid-way is the thinest I'd use for my pizzas.
Bob

"I learn each day what I need to know to do tomorrow’s work." - Arnold Toynbee

Offline bobgraff

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Re: BobGraff's Attempt at Aimless Ryan's Tommy's Pizza Clone
« Reply #4 on: June 27, 2017, 12:37:51 AM »
7/25/2017

Dough
821 g Gold Medal AP flour
357 g Water (modification)
12 g IDY
12 g Salt
41 g Lard (Morrell Snow Cap Manteca)
8 g Sugar
4 g Low Diastatic Malt Powder (new)

Dough Prep
20+ hour RT bulk ferment
Skins refrigerated for 24+ hours

Pizza 1:  Half Tomato & Onion/ Half Eggplant Caponata (with dashes of Olive tapenade)
Pizza 2:  Standard Pep, rolled with my new pasta maker.  Cooked directly on a pre-heated stone.  Over-did the corn-meal.  :(

Notes 
The malt added some flavor, though added chewiness to the dough.  The jury is still out on this addition....
« Last Edit: June 27, 2017, 12:41:21 AM by bobgraff »
Bob

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Offline bobgraff

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Re: BobGraff's Attempt at Aimless Ryan's Tommy's Pizza Clone
« Reply #5 on: June 27, 2017, 10:43:39 PM »
Last pizza from the last batch of dough (4 days ago).  Tomato, onion, and Bacon (cooked prior, added post bake).

I had grand plans for this one, but it was a mess from the start. 

I pre-heated my stone at 550 for over an hour, then dropped the heat to 450 just prior to launch in an attempt to get a more crispy crust without burning the toppings.

I also decided to try flouring the peel to aid the launch, given that I felt last night's pizza had too much corn meal.  The skin seems to slide around on the peel fine... until I added the toppings.

I struggled to get any movement, so out came the parchment paper.  After considerable effort and some choice words, I managed to get the thing launched.

11 minutes @ 450

The Result:  Tough, chewy crust.

The skin had been in the fridge for 3 days.  I'm guessing there's a shelf life for malty doughs (or perhaps dough in general).

One side effect of my bungled launch was that 20% was not on parchment, so I got the benefit of comparing direct-on-stone vs parchment.  In the underside pic, note the whitish area is the result of cooking on the stone directly.

Live and learn!  I'll be saving malt for bread making in the future.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2017, 10:52:36 PM by bobgraff »
Bob

"I learn each day what I need to know to do tomorrow’s work." - Arnold Toynbee

Online Pete-zza

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Re: BobGraff's Attempt at Aimless Ryan's Tommy's Pizza Clone
« Reply #6 on: June 28, 2017, 08:54:22 AM »
Bob,

Nice job all around, even if the last pizza was not up to par.

And thanks for the nice write-up. That takes a lot of work and planning. I'm sure the members will appreciate the effort you put into your posts.

Peter

Offline PizzaGarage

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Re: BobGraff's Attempt at Aimless Ryan's Tommy's Pizza Clone
« Reply #7 on: June 30, 2017, 12:36:23 PM »
Second attempt - 7/18/2017.

Dough (no changes)
821 g Gold Medal AP flour
353 g Water
12 g IDY
12 g Salt
41 g Lard (Morrell Snow Cap Manteca)
8 g Sugar

Sauce
Cento Italian Tomatoes (hand crushed, liquid removed)
1 TSP Double strength tomato paste
small pinch of sugar
small pinch of oregano
small pinch of salt (new)

Dough Prep
22 hour RT bulk ferment (new)
Skins refrigerated for 20 hours

6 10-inch pizzas cooked in 2 different ovens.
Convection oven @ 500. Pizzas cooked directly on the stone (not pre-heated due to time constraints).
Conventional oven @ 500. Pizzas cooked on a pre-heated pan.

22 RT - oh yeah, that's the way to do it, nice blisters in the crust, nice and thin  - that one right there made me really really want pizza for dinner - fantastic!!!!

On the launching - get your self a wooded pizza paddle or composite (they have these at target).  You can use flour or better yet Semolina.  Rub the Semolina in with your hand and put the dough on, slides off super easy...
« Last Edit: June 30, 2017, 12:40:13 PM by PizzaGarage »

Offline bobgraff

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Re: BobGraff's Attempt at Aimless Ryan's Tommy's Pizza Clone
« Reply #8 on: July 03, 2017, 01:10:53 PM »
Dough made on 6/29.

(note:  I'm actually making half dough batches now, but am listing the original doubled amounts for ease of comparison)

Dough
821 g Gold Medal AP flour
353 g Water
12 g IDY
12 g Salt
41 g Olive Oil (new)
8 g Sugar

Sauce
Cento Italian Tomatoes (hand crushed, liquid removed)
1 TSP Double strength tomato paste
small pinch of sugar
small pinch of oregano

Cheese
Dusting of grated pecorino romano (new)
Kroger "Pizza" cheese (mozzarella, provolone, romano, parmesan)

Dough Prep
12 hour RT bulk ferment
Skins refrigeration times:
  • Pizza 1: 0 hours
  • Pizza 2 and 3: 24 hours
  • Pizza 4: 48 hours

Notes
My focus for this batch was to perfect the process of using the pasta roller to roll out the dough and par baking. This batch of pizzas are malt free and made with olive oil instead of lard. 

The skin making process involved weighing out 16 37g pieces of dough, rolling them into 6-inch ovals, then passing each through the pasta roller 3 times at settings 0, 2, and 4 (see pic below of pieces at 0 and 2 thickness).  I composed 2 of 4  11-inch skins using 2 layers of 4 dough pieces + scrap to cover the middle, further rolled out to combine.  I did not do the quarter fold / third rollout as listed in Ryan's original recipe.  I used the scraps produced from cutting out the first 2 pizzas to make the 3rd and 4th pizzas.

The entire process took an hour, including weighing out the dough and forming the skins.  It didn't save me any time vs just using a rolling pin, but it felt a lot easier to do the job.

I'll describe the pizzas from this batch in multiple posts, separated by day.

Pizza 1:  Quartered pepperoni and diced cured black olives, 9-inch pie made out of scraps.  I par baked the skin on parchment paper for 3 minutes in order to dry it out enough to launch it onto the stone without flour or corn meal.  Slight crisp on the bottom, though I missed the lack of bubbles usually caused (I think) by hours long refrigeration.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2017, 02:56:55 PM by bobgraff »
Bob

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Offline bobgraff

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Re: BobGraff's Attempt at Aimless Ryan's Tommy's Pizza Clone
« Reply #9 on: July 03, 2017, 01:27:32 PM »
Dough batch from 6/29 cont.

Pizza 2:  Pepperoni
Pizza 3:  Artichoke Hearts and diced banana peppers

I usually rollout the skins once more after removing them from the fridge, however for these pizzas I purposely left out that step to see how a more "doughy" pizza would turn out.  I tried par baking these for 2-3 minutes (on parchment) in hopes of being able to launch the dressed pizzas direct onto the stone, but it only made things worse.  I decided to continue to bake the dressed pizzas on parchment paper for another 3-4 minutes, then finished the pizzas directly on the stone for the last 2 minutes. 

The result was a somewhat tough crust, though not as tough as the malty dough.  At this point, I was left wondering if the toughness was coming from the pasta roller, the thick skin, or the oil (instead of lard).
« Last Edit: July 03, 2017, 09:30:17 PM by bobgraff »
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Offline bobgraff

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Re: BobGraff's Attempt at Aimless Ryan's Tommy's Pizza Clone
« Reply #10 on: July 03, 2017, 01:40:28 PM »
Dough batch from 6/29 cont.

Pizza 4:  Cheese

I further rolled out this pie from the fridge and draped it by hand directly on my stone, preheated for an hour at 550.  After par baking for 3 minutes, I let it air cool on a rack for 5 minutes, then dressed the skin, then back in the oven on broil for another 2 minutes.

The result was "I'm not saving my wife any" excellent (I admit it, I'm weak).  The dough still had a slight chew to it, but each of those tiny bubbles were so crisp.  Yum!

I think I've finally seen the "direct on stone" light.  I guess a wood peel is in my future, as winging naked skins on the stone is a recipe for mangled pies (as seen below).
« Last Edit: July 03, 2017, 02:58:43 PM by bobgraff »
Bob

"I learn each day what I need to know to do tomorrow’s work." - Arnold Toynbee

Offline Aimless Ryan

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Re: BobGraff's Attempt at Aimless Ryan's Tommy's Pizza Clone
« Reply #11 on: July 04, 2017, 12:11:49 PM »
Wow, another one! I haven't even read yet. About to.
Ryan
http://www.ryanspizzablog.blogspot.com

Disclaimer: Don't necessarily believe anything I say here. My brain ain't quite right anymore (unless it is). If I come off as rude or argumentative, that's probably not my intention. Rather, that's just me being honest, to myself and everyone else; partly because I don't have enough time left to BS either you or myself. If you are offended by anything I say, it's probably because you think lying to people (to be "polite") is a good idea. I don't.

Offline 333meg

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Re: BobGraff's Attempt at Aimless Ryan's Tommy's Pizza Clone
« Reply #12 on: July 04, 2017, 12:51:58 PM »
Bob I am so excited to see you join in on the fun! I'm loving your write ups and I found myself laughing several times at your foibles as I have lived through them as well. I am very behind on my write ups, I make 1-2 pizzas/ week, and every single time I encounter something that reminds me that I have a lot of room to improve. My main issue is consistency. I have struggled with the launch too. With my last few pies I have started using semolina (as lightly as possible) on my peel, and yes it works great, only I am struggling getting past the way it takes away from the Tommyness. Baking direct on the stone, has for me, resulted in superior blisters and crunch, it's just getting it there which has been the struggle, not to mention the anxiety of the launch without the semolina is no joke. Keep up the great work, I look forward to hearing and seeing all of your attempts.
Pursuing pizza has put me into an airplane, in a car and on road trips of hundreds of miles...

Offline bobgraff

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Re: BobGraff's Attempt at Aimless Ryan's Tommy's Pizza Clone
« Reply #13 on: July 08, 2017, 09:50:07 AM »
Thanks for the encouragement Meg.  I am completely obsessed!  :)
Bob

"I learn each day what I need to know to do tomorrow’s work." - Arnold Toynbee

Offline bobgraff

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Re: BobGraff's Attempt at Aimless Ryan's Tommy's Pizza Clone
« Reply #14 on: July 08, 2017, 10:40:31 AM »
Dough made on 7/5.

As I mentioned in the main Tommy's thread, I tried out Ryan's latest dough recipe with increased hydration and decreased fat content.

https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=12446.msg488047#msg488047

Dough
821 g Gold Medal AP flour
410 g Water
12 g IDY
12 g Salt
16 g Olive Oil
16 g Low diastatic malt powder

Sauce (new)
Dei Fratelli Crushed tomatoes
small pinch of brown sugar
small pinch of toasted and crushed fennel seed
small pinch of dried basil
1/8 tsp salt

Cheese
Dusting of grated pecorino romano
Kroger "Pizza" cheese (mozzarella, provolone, romano, parmesan)

Dough Prep
22 hour RT bulk ferment
Skins refrigeration times:
Pizza 1: 0 hours
Pizza 2 and 3: 19 hours
Pizza 4: Frozen, TBD

I think a caught a buzz uncovering the dough after the RT bulk ferment.  Notably stronger alcohol aroma compared to my previous doughs.  My first thought was, "Did it go bad"?  I decided to risk it.  :)

The dough was much harder to handle due to the higher hydration.  I guess I got spoiled with the 43% hydration recipe (no bench flour needed).

I couldn't find my preferred Cento Italian tomatoes at the store this week, so I opted for a cheap can of Dei Fratelli crushed tomatoes.  Not a fan.   I also decided to try some sauce ingredients mentioned in the Palermo's thread, despite the anti-Columbus Pizza snobby comment.   ::)  I was too conservative with the fennel/sugar to notice them in the sauce, but I plan to continue to experiment on this front.

In other news, I now own a wooden pizza peel.  No excuses for not launching the pizzas direct, though I am still experimenting with par baking.

First pizza:   This skin skipped the refrigeration step.  No docking.  Par baked for 3 minutes on pre-heated stone @ 550, dressed and finished on the stone for another 3 minutes.

Note to self:  Clean the stone before pre-heating the oven.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2017, 04:42:15 PM by bobgraff »
Bob

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Offline bobgraff

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Re: BobGraff's Attempt at Aimless Ryan's Tommy's Pizza Clone
« Reply #15 on: July 08, 2017, 10:57:14 AM »
Dough made on 7/5, cont.

This skin was fully docked (new $5 dough docker, courtesy of Amazon).

Pizza 2:  I had an un-opened bag of Bridgeford pepperoni that I had bought before discovering the good stuff at Carfagna's.  This pizza was intended for my kids, so I didn't think they'd mind.  >:D
In hindsight, the Bridgefords were disgusting.  Never again!!!

This was a big moment for me.  Armed with my newly acquired wooden peel, I launched this pizza fully dressed, direct on the stone.  The result?

1 Half cheese / Half pepperoni pizza (i.e. I botched the launch).   7 minutes @ 550.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2017, 10:59:50 AM by bobgraff »
Bob

"I learn each day what I need to know to do tomorrow’s work." - Arnold Toynbee

Offline tedcholl

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Re: BobGraff's Attempt at Aimless Ryan's Tommy's Pizza Clone
« Reply #16 on: July 08, 2017, 11:20:26 AM »
Thanks for sharing Bob.  It is addicting once you get on this journey - the Pursuit of Pizza Perfection is what I call it.   

I used to use 43% hydration, went to 48% but had the same issue with the dough being much more sticky and requiring bench flour.  My sweet spot is now 45%, it makes the dough easier to handle but without requiring the bench flour unless I freeze the dough.   When I freeze the dough and then use it later, even at 45% I get sticky dough and need to use bench flour.

I made up a batch of dough using 2.5% malt syrup and 6% crisco sticks.   I will make the pizzas later this afternoon and report out with some photos.

I also like using the King Arthur Bread flour.  It has a 12.7% protein vs the 13.0% protein that Tommy's uses.

I cook on a steel at 550 and use parchment paper but I do add cornmeal on top of the parchment as I like the taste of cornmeal and it also helps absorb the grease.  I have only tried par baking a few times but I didn't personally like it - seems like it adds alot of extra effort and I didn't seen the benefit.

Your pizzas do look great though and I appreciate you sharing your learnings, it can only help all of us in our Pursuit!
« Last Edit: July 08, 2017, 11:27:22 AM by tedcholl »

Offline bobgraff

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Re: BobGraff's Attempt at Aimless Ryan's Tommy's Pizza Clone
« Reply #17 on: July 08, 2017, 11:21:55 AM »
Dough made on 7/5, cont.

This skin's misshapeness is from the soft dough stretching as I was handing it prior to launch.

My bravery depleted, I put my par baker hat back on.  I know practice makes perfect, but I actually like the results I've been getting with pre-baking the skin (even if it is a departure from Tommy's).

I launched the naked skin using my wooden peel, lightly floured. I forgot to dock this one, so I popped the bigger bubbles during the par-bake.  I like the fact that par baking allows me to know where the bubbles are, before I top the pie.

I went heavier on the sauce and cheese than usual.  Curiously, the cheese took much longer to melt.

Par baked for 4 minutes on pre-heated stone @ 550, dressed and finished on the stone for another 10 minutes.

The crunch and crackle this one made when I cut into it was glorious.  Excellent dough flavor, nice crunch. 

I was hesitant to use the malt, based on my previous experience (thought it made the dough tough), but the results this time were positive.  I'm going to back off on the hydration next time and up the oil slightly for easier dough management and (I hope) added crispiness.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2017, 03:44:47 PM by bobgraff »
Bob

"I learn each day what I need to know to do tomorrow’s work." - Arnold Toynbee

Offline Hermit

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Re: BobGraff's Attempt at Aimless Ryan's Tommy's Pizza Clone
« Reply #18 on: July 08, 2017, 02:44:30 PM »
Wow these are some impressive pies.   :pizza:

I love that pasta roller you got, I just cant roll out the dough very well with a rolling pin.  I've always gone in a cutter pan but the color you got on that last pie and the nice thin layers has me wanting to go direct on the stone.  I'll be studying this thread again on my next thin.

Offline 333meg

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Re: BobGraff's Attempt at Aimless Ryan's Tommy's Pizza Clone
« Reply #19 on: July 08, 2017, 04:51:18 PM »
Nice browning, blisters and lamination on that last one. Looks great! Since you live in Cbus and are making so many pies, check out the cheese selection at GFS. Last time I was there they had a 5# bag of pre-shredded Grande mozz/provo blend that I have been enjoying.
Pursuing pizza has put me into an airplane, in a car and on road trips of hundreds of miles...

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