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Author Topic: BobGraff's Attempt at Aimless Ryan's Tommy's Pizza Clone  (Read 16268 times)

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Offline invertedisdead

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Re: BobGraff's Attempt at Aimless Ryan's Tommy's Pizza Clone
« Reply #240 on: August 12, 2019, 04:08:45 PM »
Steel must be a key. I am baking on a Fibrament stone @585. I definitely needed the par bake to get the crunch I desire. I have done both ways par bake and non. Here is one today. Fibrament Stone @ 585. Par Bake for 2 minutes, cooled for about 15 or so, topped and baked for another 5 minutes. Turned out perfectly. I also changed a few things this time... only rolling out 1 dough ball and quartering it for a 4 layer lamination instead of 2 dough balls and 8 layers. I think I like the thickness much better on this pie. and still got lamination.

I was under the impression most of these places are baking for around 15 minutes on the deck? Steel has a much higher thermal conductivity than Fibrament: ie it transfers heat more efficiently, so it would likely speed up the bake time. In my opinion you need a slower, drawn out bake to get that crunchiness without par baking. In a shop they have the advantage of being able to use a lower hydration dough right out of the gate with a sheeter which wouldn't need as long to cook the water out.

Although your pie looks super crispy for a 7 minute bake time. Maybe you have a better oven than me, mine is definitely awful.

That said, I know Bob's been turning out some stellar pies on steel so maybe I've got this cracker thing all backwards.
the proof is in the pizza

Offline bobgraff

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Re: BobGraff's Attempt at Aimless Ryan's Tommy's Pizza Clone
« Reply #241 on: August 12, 2019, 11:22:09 PM »
Cheers Bob! Last time I did laminated crackers I used Fazarri's technique of sheeting the dough, cutting skins, cold fermenting for a few days and use right out of the fridge. I lost most of my old pizza notes so I don't really remember anything specific I was doing.

Attaching a couple photos of my best laminated crackers, I'm pretty sure the round one was par baked and the square one wasn't.
edit: actually found my post on that pie! https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=43782.msg473623#msg473623
Funny I actually ended up balling the dough after laminating!  ???

I'm gonna have to re-read this whole thread and brush up on more of your experiments!

How long are you guys letting the dough/gluten relax after laminating before sheeting/rolling your final skins?

My process probably doesn't meet the definition of true lamination - I usually just roll out 2 100g dough balls, lay one skin on top of the other (plastic wrap on top and bottom), then gently roll it out a bit further.

The 2-layer thing is all about me being too lazy to do any more.  Takes me about 20 minutes to get one of these 2-ply skins rolled out and ready to top.  One pizza is no big deal, but if I'm doing three or more - whew!

I was getting good results using a stone, but switched to steel (post #147) after my stone broke.
Bob

"I learn each day what I need to know to do tomorrow’s work." - Arnold Toynbee

Offline bobgraff

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Re: BobGraff's Attempt at Aimless Ryan's Tommy's Pizza Clone
« Reply #242 on: August 25, 2019, 10:38:03 AM »
8/17/19 Dough

410 g Bread Flour
185 g Water (45%)
6 g IDY
7 g Diamond Crystal Kosher Salt
25 g Sunflower  oil
8 g LDMP


Dough Prep
7 Hour RT bulk ferment, dough ball stored in fridge for 2 days, frozen for 5 days, back in the fridge overnight.  Dough warmed on the counter for 5 hours.

Sauce
2 cup Stanislaus Full Red Super Heavy Tomato Puree
1 cup Stanislaus 7/11 ground tomatoes
1/4 cup Peroni beer
1/4 tsp granulated garlic powder
1/4 tsp oregano
1/16 tsp black pepper


Cheese
Tillamook LMPS Mozzarella, Murray's Raclette, Romano

The Bake
4 min par bake  (parchment on steel @ 530) + 4.5 minutes fully dressed (screened on steel).

Results
I haven't made one of these since February (got side-tracked with Detroit-style).  Not sure if making Detroit style for 6 months changed my tastes, but I felt like my normal 200g skin wasn't enough to stand up to this amount of pepperoni.  The Ezzo's really dominated the pizza here.

Made my standard sauce recipe, but with Peroni instead of water.  Last time I portioned out my tomatoes, I inadvertently upped the tomatoes from 2 cups to 3 cups per portion.  I didn't alter any other ingredient amounts and it still tasted great. 
Bob

"I learn each day what I need to know to do tomorrow’s work." - Arnold Toynbee

Offline bobgraff

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Re: BobGraff's Attempt at Aimless Ryan's Tommy's Pizza Clone
« Reply #243 on: September 22, 2019, 09:46:49 PM »
My pizza making brother and cousin were in town this week, so we jumped at the chance to each make our own recipes to share with the rest of the family.

The pizzas:
Me:  2 cracker crusts + 2 pan pizzas

ChrisGraff:  4 pizzas NY style pizzas using his recipe.

Cousin:  2 pans using K. Lopez's Sicilian recipe

It was really cool getting to sample each other's handy work.  They were all very different and all excellent.  The only downside is that we were so busy making pizzas that we didn't take many pictures.
Bob

"I learn each day what I need to know to do tomorrow’s work." - Arnold Toynbee

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: BobGraff's Attempt at Aimless Ryan's Tommy's Pizza Clone
« Reply #244 on: September 22, 2019, 09:51:59 PM »


   You felers did good....REAL good!  :drool:
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

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Offline chrisgraff

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Re: BobGraff's Attempt at Aimless Ryan's Tommy's Pizza Clone
« Reply #245 on: September 26, 2019, 02:55:40 PM »
It was a good night, for sure! Here's my updated recipe:
https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=59406.msg595843#msg595843

Offline chrisgraff

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Re: BobGraff's Attempt at Aimless Ryan's Tommy's Pizza Clone
« Reply #246 on: September 26, 2019, 07:06:08 PM »
Let me also add, that after eating Tommy's pizza twice that week... Bob's pizza was better!

Offline bobgraff

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Re: BobGraff's Attempt at Aimless Ryan's Tommy's Pizza Clone
« Reply #247 on: October 11, 2019, 09:57:38 AM »
10/6/19 Dough

410 g Bread Flour
185 g Water (45%)
6 g IDY
7 g Diamond Crystal Kosher Salt
50 g Crisco
8 g LDMP


Dough Prep
10 Hour RT bulk ferment, dough ball stored in fridge for 4 days. Dough warmed on the counter for 1 hour.

Sauce
1 cup Stanislaus Full Red Super Heavy Tomato Puree
1 cup Stanislaus 7/11 ground tomatoes
1/16 tsp granulated garlic powder
1/8 tsp oregano
1/16 tsp black pepper


Cheese
Tillamook LMPS Mozzarella, Romano

The Bake
Pizza 1 (pep): 4 min par bake  (parchment on steel @ 530) + 4.5 minutes fully dressed (screened on steel).
Pizza 2 (sausage): 8 minutes  (parchment on steel @ 530)

Results
More experiments.  I've been wondering if Tommy's dough has more fat in it than I've been using, so I doubled the fat from 6% to 12%.   The resulting pizzas had a softer crisp/fried quality to them -  good, but not exactly the same as Tommy's.  I used Crisco instead of my normal Sunflower oil, so that may have played a part too.  I should know better to change too many variables at once, but sometimes I can't help myself.  :)

I also wanted to compare par-baking vs not, so the sausage pizza was launched on the steel  fully dressed and left there for the entire 8 minutes.  The browning on the cheese was a nice addition, though I thought the underskirt was slightly underdone.  I'm looking forward to trying this again on future pies.

One last note - neither of these pizzas were laminated.   I got a late start and had hungry mouths to feed.  The pepperoni pizza developed a pizza-wide bubble on top (that I popped), so it turned out similar to my normal 2-layer crusts anyway.  Very curious if there's a simple way to fold the dough to get this effect consistently (and avoid the work of rolling out 2 layers).
Bob

"I learn each day what I need to know to do tomorrow’s work." - Arnold Toynbee

Offline bobgraff

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Re: BobGraff's Attempt at Aimless Ryan's Tommy's Pizza Clone
« Reply #248 on: October 12, 2019, 02:11:06 PM »
10/6/19 Dough (See above)


Dough Prep
10 Hour RT bulk ferment, dough ball stored in fridge for 6 days. Dough warmed on the counter for 1 hour.

Sauce
1 can Avalone Crushed Jersey Tomatoes
1/4 tsp granulated garlic powder
1/4 tsp oregano
1/16+ tsp black pepper


Cheese
Kroger LMPS Mozzarella, Cracker Barrel Vermont White Cheddar, Romano

The Bake
9 minutes  (parchment on steel @ 500)

Results
This was a leftover dough ball pizza with less than ideal Kroger cheese and Boars Head pepperoni.  In an effort to streamline my lamination process, I changed up my procedure by rolling out the skin half way, folding it into a square, letting it rest, then rolling it out all the way.    It was definitely less work than usual, however you might notice that the pizza turned out somewhat "square-ish".  Once again, I skipped the par-bake.  The pizza seemed more greasy than normal, probably due to the Boars Head pep and Kroger cheese.
Bob

"I learn each day what I need to know to do tomorrow’s work." - Arnold Toynbee

Offline bobgraff

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Re: BobGraff's Attempt at Aimless Ryan's Tommy's Pizza Clone
« Reply #249 on: October 17, 2019, 09:23:15 PM »
10/13/19 Dough

410 g Bread Flour
185 g Water (45%)
6 g IDY
7 g Diamond Crystal Kosher Salt
35 g Sunflower Oil
8 g LDMP


Dough Prep
6 Hour RT bulk ferment, dough balls stored in fridge for 4 days. Dough warmed on the counter for 1 hour.

Sauce
1 can Avalone Crushed Jersey Tomatoes
1/4 tsp granulated garlic powder
1/4 tsp oregano
1/16+ tsp black pepper

Cheese
Tillamook LMPS Mozzarella, Cracker Barrel Vermont White Cheddar, Romano

The Bake
Pizza 1 (pep): 10 minutes  (parchment on steel @ 510)
Pizza 2 (Veg): 3 min par bake  (parchment on steel @ 510) + 6 minutes fully dressed (screened on steel).

Results
I went with sunflower oil in this dough and reduced to 8.5%  I liked this amount more so than my previous pizzas @ 12%.  Both pizzas were non-laminated crusts.
Bob

"I learn each day what I need to know to do tomorrow’s work." - Arnold Toynbee

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Offline bobgraff

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Re: BobGraff's Attempt at Aimless Ryan's Tommy's Pizza Clone
« Reply #250 on: October 20, 2019, 01:25:42 PM »
10/13/19 Dough (See previous post)

Dough Prep
6 Hour RT bulk ferment, dough balls stored in fridge for 7 days. Dough rolled out cold, straight from the fridge.

Sauce
1 can Avalone Crushed Jersey Tomatoes
3/8 tsp granulated garlic powder
3/8 tsp oregano
1/16+ tsp black pepper

Cheese
Tillamook LMPS Mozzarella, Cracker Barrel Vermont White Cheddar, Murray's Pecorino Calabrese

The Bake
5 min par bake  (parchment on steel @ 515) + 4.5 minutes fully dressed (screened on steel).

Results
This pizza was fantastic, especially considering the dough was a week old.  I tweaked my normal workflow by not laminating and did not roll the dough out a second time, once out of the pie-bag.
The thicker skin ended up "self laminating" as there were a decent amount bubbles.  The resulting crust was very tender and crispy.
Bob

"I learn each day what I need to know to do tomorrow’s work." - Arnold Toynbee

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: BobGraff's Attempt at Aimless Ryan's Tommy's Pizza Clone
« Reply #251 on: October 20, 2019, 07:40:42 PM »

   You sure are making some great looking pizzas Bob!  :chef:  :drool:
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Offline bobgraff

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BobGraff's Attempt at Aimless Ryan's Tommy's Pizza Clone
« Reply #252 on: October 28, 2019, 08:06:14 AM »
10/20/19 Dough

410 g Bread Flour
185 g Water (45%)
6 g IDY
7 g Diamond Crystal Kosher Salt
35 g Crisco
8 g LDMP


Dough Prep
6 Hour RT bulk ferment, dough balls stored in fridge for 7 days. Rolled out cold.

Sauce
1 cup Stanislaus Full Red Super Heavy Tomato Puree
1 cup Stanislaus 7/11 ground tomatoes
1/8 tsp granulated garlic powder
1/8 tsp oregano
1/16 tsp black pepper

Cheese
Tillamook LMPS Mozzarella, Cracker Barrel Vermont White Cheddar + Romano/Pecorino Calabrese/Grand Cru

The Bake
5 min par bake  (parchment on steel @ 520) + 5 minutes fully dressed (screened on steel).


Results
I've been bouncing back and forth between Crisco and sunflower oil at 8.5% in my dough - the difference is subtle, but I think sunflower oil tastes better.  Did not laminate these skins.  Each pizza used a different hard cheese - exploring romano alternatives.  Sauce might need a touch more garlic powder.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2019, 12:12:22 PM by bobgraff »
Bob

"I learn each day what I need to know to do tomorrow’s work." - Arnold Toynbee

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: BobGraff's Attempt at Aimless Ryan's Tommy's Pizza Clone
« Reply #253 on: October 28, 2019, 01:35:53 PM »
Boy, I sure like those Bob... Nice going!  :chef:

What is the least number of days CF for your dough to have good flavor?

I have a new Harris teeter near by and noticed they carry that Tillamook brand.... Do you like it?
I really like the lighter color cheese melt on your pie....I assume it has a lil nice stringiness to it?
Thanks
« Last Edit: October 28, 2019, 01:49:29 PM by Chicago Bob »
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Offline Mad_Ernie

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Re: BobGraff's Attempt at Aimless Ryan's Tommy's Pizza Clone
« Reply #254 on: October 28, 2019, 06:05:48 PM »
Those look wonderful Bob!  Nice going!  :drool:
Let them eat pizza.

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Offline bobgraff

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Re: BobGraff's Attempt at Aimless Ryan's Tommy's Pizza Clone
« Reply #255 on: October 29, 2019, 08:09:15 AM »
Boy, I sure like those Bob... Nice going!  :chef:

What is the least number of days CF for your dough to have good flavor?

I have a new Harris teeter near by and noticed they carry that Tillamook brand.... Do you like it?
I really like the lighter color cheese melt on your pie....I assume it has a lil nice stringiness to it?
Thanks

Two day CF is my normal standard - anything less is sub-optimal in my experience.  I've been letting the dough balls go longer due to my recent schedule and am still being good results.

Tillamook makes a great LMPS mozz and performs well when baking less than 5 minutes - properly gooey.  I'm less thrilled with it past 5 minutes and am wondering if a whole-milk variety would perform better for longer bakes.
Bob

"I learn each day what I need to know to do tomorrow’s work." - Arnold Toynbee

Offline chrisgraff

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Re: BobGraff's Attempt at Aimless Ryan's Tommy's Pizza Clone
« Reply #256 on: November 01, 2019, 11:52:18 PM »
I sneaked up to Columbus while Bob was out of town. Of course, the first order of business was a visit to Tommy’s. This was among the best I’ve ever had there. Bottom layer - impossibly thin, crispy. Second layer - chewy. Sauce/cheese/pepperoni...perfect. 

As my Mom was putting the leftovers away, she said, “I guess you can have this for breakfast.” 

...to which I replied, “Only if it survives the night.”  ;D
« Last Edit: November 01, 2019, 11:54:35 PM by chrisgraff »

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: BobGraff's Attempt at Aimless Ryan's Tommy's Pizza Clone
« Reply #257 on: November 02, 2019, 10:37:11 PM »



    Oooh yeah bayby!!   :drool:
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Offline bobgraff

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Re: BobGraff's Attempt at Aimless Ryan's Tommy's Pizza Clone
« Reply #258 on: November 11, 2019, 06:11:05 PM »
11/07/19 Dough

550 g high-gluten Bouncer Flour
248 g Water (45%)
8 g IDY
9 g Diamond Crystal Kosher Salt
55 g Sunflower  oil
11 g LDMP


Dough Prep
2 Hour RT bulk ferment, 36 Hour cold bulk ferment in fridge, dough balls formed and stored in fridge for 24 hours.  Dough rolled out cold.

Sauce
2 cup Stanislaus Full Red Super Heavy Tomato Puree
1 cup Stanislaus 7/11 ground tomatoes
1/4 cup Peroni beer
1/4 tsp granulated garlic powder
1/4 tsp oregano
1/8 tsp black pepper


Cheese
Tillamook LMPS Mozzarella, Smoked Provolone, Cracker Barrel Vermont White Cheddar, Romano

The Bake
5-6 min par bake  (parchment on steel @ 530) + 5-6 minutes fully dressed (screened on steel).

Results
I recently purchased a new 16" pie bag (up from 14") and made an attempt to scale up my recipe to accommodate.  Given that my pizzas were about 3x thicker than normal, I'm pretty sure I got my math wrong.  :) 

My brother and I were discussing the "fried" quality of Tommy's dough and I noted that simply increasing the cisco/oil in the dough didn't seem to produce the desired result.  I used 10% oil and high-gluten flour here in hopes that the combination would result in a more "fried" crust, but it did not.  Both Chris and I wonder if lard is the answer, but I'd be surprised if a shop could use that without disclosing that to its vegetarian clientelle.

On a positive note - the sauce and cheese combo were on-point, so there's that.
Bob

"I learn each day what I need to know to do tomorrow’s work." - Arnold Toynbee

Offline bobgraff

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Re: BobGraff's Attempt at Aimless Ryan's Tommy's Pizza Clone
« Reply #259 on: November 17, 2019, 12:03:08 AM »
11/12/19 Dough

410 g Bread Flour
184 g Water (45%)
6 g IDY
7 g Diamond Crystal Kosher Salt
41 g Sunflower  oil
8 g LDMP


Dough Prep
4 Day cold bulk ferment in fridge, dough balls formed and stored in fridge for 6 hours.  Dough balls warmed at RT for 3 hours.

Sauce
2 cup Stanislaus Full Red Super Heavy Tomato Puree
1 cup Stanislaus 7/11 ground tomatoes
1/4 cup Peroni beer
1/4 tsp granulated garlic powder
1/4 tsp oregano
1/8 tsp black pepper
1/16 tsp salt
1/32 tsp onion powder


Cheese
Tillamook LMPS Mozzarella, Smoked Provolone, Cracker Barrel Vermont White Cheddar, Raclette, Romano, Murray's Pecorino Calabrese

The Bake
5-6 min par bake  (parchment on steel @ 530) + 5-6 minutes fully dressed (screened on steel).

Results
I went back to my regular recipe using 410 g of flour, but rolled out 2 skins instead of 3.  This worked well with my 16" pie bag - the pizzas were slightly thicker, but still crispy.
Bob

"I learn each day what I need to know to do tomorrow’s work." - Arnold Toynbee

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