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Author Topic: Can I Change the Regulator on a Roccbox?  (Read 2090 times)

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Offline tiburonh

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Can I Change the Regulator on a Roccbox?
« on: February 09, 2018, 03:56:39 PM »
I have a new Roccbox and can not for the life of me get it to heat to the full 500 degrees celsius in less than an hour and a half.  It's not because it's cold outside -  the air temps have been around 65 - 70F the three times I have used it.  It's not because the regulator's flow limiter has been triggered.  And yes,  I have used an infrared thermometer to verify that it's not that the oven's thermometer is defective.  So,  I am left wondering if the regulator itself is just not letting enough gas through.  The label on the hose between the regulator and the oven says it is made by JH Ksun, their model # RXQB01, with Max 1 PSI.  I'm thinking of trying to replace this with a regulator that has a higher PSI -- like 5 or 10.  Or one that has an adjustable PSI from 1 to 20.   

I have two questions please:
 
(1) If I use a higher PSI regulator,  am I going to blow myself up and never be able to read anything on this forum again?
(2) If I use a higher PSI regulator,  will it make any difference in how fast the Roccbox heats up?

Thanks in advance for any advice you can offer.

Offline norcoscia

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Re: Can I Change the Regulator on a Roccbox?
« Reply #1 on: February 09, 2018, 04:08:29 PM »
Here is my advice for what it is worth - DO NOT use a high pressure regulator on a device it is not designed for - the normal low pressure regulators (that are found on almost every home grill) can be substituted in to see if your regulator is just poorly constructed / defective or out of tolerance. I would go to walmart and buy a weber gas grill regulator. Try it with the weber -- if it works you're done and likely under 20 bucks - plus you don't burn anything down either.

PS. I have a feeling this will solve your problem - but if for some reason it does not (and that is possible for a number of very unlikely reasons) you can just return the regulator.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2018, 04:14:36 PM by norcoscia »
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Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Can I Change the Regulator on a Roccbox?
« Reply #2 on: February 09, 2018, 07:20:22 PM »
Many, if not most or even all, low pressure burners won't even work with high pressure. The flame will just blow out if you can even get it lit in the first place. They won't get the right fuel/air mix.
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Offline norcoscia

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Re: Can I Change the Regulator on a Roccbox?
« Reply #3 on: February 09, 2018, 08:04:19 PM »
Actually, if you get an adjustable high pressure regulator and open it just a tiny amount - most will light and stay lit - but it is just asking for trouble and very very unsafe.
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Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Can I Change the Regulator on a Roccbox?
« Reply #4 on: February 09, 2018, 08:30:43 PM »
Actually, if you get an adjustable high pressure regulator and open it just a tiny amount - most will light and stay lit - but it is just asking for trouble and very very unsafe.

Of course, but that's not running high pressure - just low pressure with a HP reg. You won't get much over 11"WC/0.4PSI before you run into problems.
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Offline tiburonh

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Re: Can I Change the Regulator on a Roccbox?
« Reply #5 on: February 09, 2018, 11:03:56 PM »
Thanks everyone for your wise advice! 

Having no special desire to blow up either my Roccbox or myself, I will try Norcosica's suggestion of seeing how things go with a substitute regular low pressure regulator.  I hope to be able to do so this weekend,  and will report in on the results.

Cheers!


Offline norcoscia

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Re: Can I Change the Regulator on a Roccbox?
« Reply #6 on: February 10, 2018, 06:33:32 AM »
Of course, but that's not running high pressure - just low pressure with a HP reg. You won't get much over 11"WC/0.4PSI before you run into problems.

Disagree, Craig - propane has a much wider operating range compared to NG - so it will maintain a flame with lower or higher air levels (compared to a NG flame). With propane, what is supposed to be a 3 inch flame could become an ~18 inch flame before blowing it self out. I know this because I have done it myself. That is one of the two fundamental properties of propane that make NG much safer for use inside homes.

Your welcome, tiburonh...
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Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Can I Change the Regulator on a Roccbox?
« Reply #7 on: February 10, 2018, 08:43:04 AM »
That's interesting. What sort of burner? I have a couple stoves with round burners like this. They have a low pressure reg with a valve behind it, and at maximum flow they are right at the edge of blowing themselves out. The flames will kind of dance up and down over the little nozzles.
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Offline norcoscia

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Re: Can I Change the Regulator on a Roccbox?
« Reply #8 on: February 10, 2018, 09:05:13 AM »
This is a long story but about 13 years ago I purchased a big gas grill - it had 5 burners (not like the one you have in the picture which looks like a high pressure burner but no way for me to be sure from the picture). I was never happy with the grill because it never got hot enough for me to put what I considered a good sear on the meat I was cooking before it was overcooked.

I tried lot of things, checking the air adjustment - adding extra ceramic tiles between the flame tamers and the grates. I could never get it to a point I was happy with. So one day I ordered a pressure regulator from a company over the phone - the guy I spoke with said if I wanted a bigger flame I should put in an adjustable high pressure regulator. I can't remember if it was 0-5 pounds or 0- 20 pounds but in any case I placed the order.

I installed it and with the grill parts removed so I was looking at the burners I opened the gas valve a small amount and lit the burners - it started with flames about 2-3 times what had been there before and when I opened the valve a tiny bit more the burners basically turned into flame throwers. Granted it was a long time ago but hard to get the image out of my head. Each flame at least 12-18 inches long and quite scary looking. I turned it off and called the company back. Talked to a different person and he said the other guy should have never recommended that regulator and I returned it.

Since then I have done a lot of reading on gas and regulators but the info about the operating range (WRT air fuel ratio I mentioned) came from the gas man that I spoke with when he was inspecting my BP GP-61 install in my garage.
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Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Can I Change the Regulator on a Roccbox?
« Reply #9 on: February 10, 2018, 09:45:17 AM »
That's wild. I have a 100KBTU jet burner on my GG with a fixed 15PSI regulator. With the control valve wide open, the flames are maybe 10".

That may be a HP burner in my last picture. I just grabbed the first picture I saw.

This is the exact burner I have on my BBQ trailer. It puts out plenty of heat but can be a bit testing on high if you have much wind - even behind a fairly large windscreen. https://www.bayouclassicdepot.com/collections/bayou-classic-propane-cast-iron-burners/products/cajun-classic-low-pressure-cast-iron-propane-fry-burner
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Offline norcoscia

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Re: Can I Change the Regulator on a Roccbox?
« Reply #10 on: February 10, 2018, 10:30:03 AM »
The burners on my grill were side by side (and shaped like the photo) so maybe the flames coming out the sides kept them lit longer since they were aimed at one another - your single burner points up so maybe it is more prone to blow out - no way for me to know for sure - maybe burner design / shape differences come into play.

I only mentioned it because I think small companies like Roccbox don't have the budget to check each regulator and maybe they are sourcing components from multiple manufacturers that might not have the best part tolerance or quality control practices in place. Or maybe Roccbox did not do a adequate job of specifying (acquisition management is complex). It would only take one spring or orifice to be out of tolerance a bit and that could be enough to impact flow.

I see a lot of problems on this forum with gas burners not working properly and I have a feeling the root cause for many are just crappy regulators. Most people already have a gas grill so it is an easy thing to swap in a new regulator and check (or like I mentioned zip down to walgreens or home depot and snag a new quality one). A long long time ago I got some good advice from someone on trouble shooting a problem - he said try two aspirins before you do a lobotomy.
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Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Can I Change the Regulator on a Roccbox?
« Reply #11 on: February 10, 2018, 10:53:57 AM »
Jenn-Air grill? I have similar burners on my Member's Mark. One big difference I see between these and the round ones is that on the round ones, the air intake is behind the propane orifice, and on these it's ahead of it.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2018, 11:09:25 AM by TXCraig1 »
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Offline thezaman

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Re: Can I Change the Regulator on a Roccbox?
« Reply #12 on: February 10, 2018, 10:58:19 AM »
 i think low regulator burners  work at .5 psi. if you can get an adjustable regulator that goes from 0 to 5 psi it should work.

Offline norcoscia

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Re: Can I Change the Regulator on a Roccbox?
« Reply #13 on: February 10, 2018, 11:22:06 AM »
i think low regulator burners  work at .5 psi. if you can get an adjustable regulator that goes from 0 to 5 psi it should work.
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Offline tiburonh

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Re: Can I Change the Regulator on a Roccbox?
« Reply #14 on: February 15, 2018, 11:49:40 PM »
Well,  it's not the regulator that is causing my Roccbox to take so painfully long to heat up.  Per suggestions here,  I bought another low pressure regulator (made by a different manufacturer than the one Roccbox supplies), hooked it up, and got EXACTLY the same pathetic results as I got with the regulator supplied by Roccbox.  On three separate days with the original regulator and now on two separate days with the new regulator it takes around 90 minutes to reach 500 degrees Celsius.  After 30 minutes it's only at about 300 C,  after 45 minutes it's at around 410,  after 60 it's at around 450,  and finally after around 90 to 95 minutes it hits 500.

Again,  it's not a flaw in the oven's built in thermometer -- I  have been looking at that butam I have also been using an infrared thermometer and aiming it around at different spots on the floor of the oven.  I've also double checked the mounting of the burner -- it is exactly as the directions say it should be.  And it's not a problem of cold or windy weather -- I am in the San Francisco Bay area and the outdoor temps on all five days I have tried it have been between 60 and 70 degrees Fahrenheit and there have been no significant winds.

I'm attaching a GIF of what the flame looks like at full throttle.  I don't see any thing obviously wrong here,  but then I don't know exactly what it's supposed to look like.  Do any of you see anything wrong here?

Does anyone have any other suggestions on potential fixes I could try? 

I will also reach out directly to Roccbox and see if they can offer any help.  But so far my instinct is that their sales claim that it will heat up in 25 minutes or so is complete malarkey. 

Thanks all.

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Offline norcoscia

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Re: Can I Change the Regulator on a Roccbox?
« Reply #15 on: February 16, 2018, 06:09:49 AM »
I think that only leaves you with a defective burner - unless there is an obstruction in the gas/air passage somewhere I would ask Roccbox to exchange it... Let them know what you tried.....
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Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Can I Change the Regulator on a Roccbox?
« Reply #16 on: February 16, 2018, 08:55:09 AM »
I'm not sure how much you can tell from just one picture, but that flame looks too yellow which may mean it's not getting enough air in the mix.

Does the flame look like the one in this video:

"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, baker's yeast when we must, but always great pizza."  
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Offline tiburonh

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Re: Can I Change the Regulator on a Roccbox?
« Reply #17 on: February 16, 2018, 06:31:07 PM »
Hi TXCraig1-

interesting.  No,  my flame does not have the big blue base that the one in that video has. If I look hard I can see a hint of a small band of a blue at the bottom, but nothing anywhere near the size and intensity that is shown in this video.  Likewise,  the bulk of my flame is orange as opposed to the more whitish nature of the flame in the video.  Some of these differences may be due to lighting (the video looks like it was shot at night,  and I have been running my Roccbox during daylight), but even allowing for that it does look like flame of the Roccbox in the video is pretty different from mine.

Meanwhile,  I did get a response this morning to the email request for help that I sent to Roccbox last night.  In that response they asked for more pictures of my flame for their tech staff to review,  so looks like they maybe are thinking along the same lines as you.  i will send those pix off this weekend and hope to hear back from the Roccbox folks early next week.

Stay tuned,  and thanks for your help.

Offline nm2769

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Re: Can I Change the Regulator on a Roccbox?
« Reply #18 on: February 27, 2018, 10:34:07 AM »
Have you tried a different propane tank? Most tanks have an internal safety valve that can get partial stuck and restrict gas flow.  If you don't have a extra tank try banging the bottom of the tank on the driveway or hard surface. I have one tank that has this same issue, whack the tank and problem fixed.

Offline valvi

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Re: Can I Change the Regulator on a Roccbox?
« Reply #19 on: March 17, 2018, 05:49:44 AM »
I read this and got scared. I got my Roccbox. The regulator was not compatible with my country. So I went to a certified shop, showed the guy Roccbox's certification. He said I can use my high-pressure propane tank and but in a high-pressure regulator. Hopefully it's a safe setup  :o :o

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