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Author Topic: Pizza alla romana in teglia  (Read 809 times)

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Offline amolapizza

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Pizza alla romana in teglia
« on: February 17, 2018, 12:51:01 PM »
Hi everyone.

My first attempt at pizza romana in teglia.

Many things went wrong, and I had to improvise somewhat :)
From possibly using too much yeast, the fridge being warmer than anticipated, the containers too small, etc.  But I guess all is good when you can eat the results  ;D

80% hydration, about 18 hours in fridge, and 4 hours at ambient temp.
70% 454g - Caputo blu and Divella 00 mixed in about equal parts
30% 194g - Divella Semola rimancinata
80% 518g - Water
2.5%  16g - Salt
0.7% 4.2g - Cake yeast
2%    13g  - EVO

Baked at ~325C in my F1 p134h oven.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2018, 01:36:52 PM by amolapizza »
Effeuno P134H, Biscotto Fornace Saputo, Caputo Pizzeria, Mutti S. Marzano (DOP) :)

Offline Rolls

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Re: Pizza alla romana in teglia
« Reply #1 on: February 18, 2018, 11:19:25 AM »
Hi amolapizza,

What type of pan did you use (steel, aluminum, non-stick) and what are the dimensions of the pan?  Your total dough weight is around 1200 gm which would be the right amount for two 30cm x 40cm sheet pans.


Rolls
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Offline amolapizza

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Re: Pizza alla romana in teglia
« Reply #2 on: February 18, 2018, 02:23:13 PM »
Yes the pans are 30x40cm.  To be honest I'm not sure what the material is called in English, probably blue iron (in Italian it's called ferro blu).  They are made from iron and then have a protection applied (thus blue) and finally they get oiled and cured in an oven to create a non stick protection layer (also to prevent rusting).

I oiled and cured them in the oven a few times before using them.
Effeuno P134H, Biscotto Fornace Saputo, Caputo Pizzeria, Mutti S. Marzano (DOP) :)

Offline Rolls

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Re: Pizza alla romana in teglia
« Reply #3 on: February 18, 2018, 03:54:55 PM »
You have the right pans and your recipe looks good.  What do you feel went wrong with the bake?


Rolls
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Offline amolapizza

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Re: Pizza alla romana in teglia
« Reply #4 on: February 19, 2018, 05:50:46 AM »
I don't know that much went wrong with the bake itself, the result was more than enjoyable :)

That said, I think I used too much yeast for the time and temperature planned, so had to bake earlier than planned.  Since I haven't really used the fridge before for dough, I underestimated the volume change and ended up having to change my containers for bigger bowls, and still they were almost running over when I removed them from the fridge.

The work of flattening the dough can also use some improvement, next time I'll make a point of working the borders more in an effort to produce a more even distribution of dough and borders more or less at the same height as the middle.

Also I'll be aiming for more and bigger holes in the crust, probably a combination of paying attention to the amount of yeast, temperature, rising time, and flattening technique.

Just felt a need to post as in spite of the short comings of the result I was proud like a new daddy :)  Also I've been reading this board for a while, and feel that I ought to contribute more to it :)

All in all it was a good learning experience as it was the first time I've tried to make something like this in my new oven and new pans.  In the past I've sometimes tried to make something similar in the home oven with lower hydration and with normal oven pans, with much worse results, read: flatter, harder dough which has stuck on the pan :)
« Last Edit: February 19, 2018, 05:53:35 AM by amolapizza »
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Offline Yael

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Re: Pizza alla romana in teglia
« Reply #5 on: February 19, 2018, 08:19:00 AM »
Hi amolapizza,

Just to confirm -if you speak French, cake yeast is levure fraiche de boulanger, no ? I don't know why it is called "cake" yeast in English  ???

Quote from: Common Abbreviations Used on the Forum
Cake yeast (also known as fresh, compressed or wet yeast)

Was it ok to get to 80% hydration with these flours ?
Dough looks good anyway !
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Offline Rolls

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Re: Pizza alla romana in teglia
« Reply #6 on: February 19, 2018, 08:49:46 AM »
@amolapizza,

I think achieving a final dough temperature of around 24°C really helps regulate the fermentation of the dough.  One of the challenges I've found in making this type pf pizza is achieving the right degree of extensibility in the dough, which will really help with getting an even stretch in the pan.  If interested, the videos of Pino Arletto on Youtube are good examples of how to handle the dough properly.  All in all, your pizza looks good.

@Yael,

The word "cake" in the context of "cake yeast" denotes compression and does not refer to the more common usage of "cake" as a sweet or dessert, even though it can be an ingredient in such products.  In fact, "cake yeast" is also referred to as "compressed yeast".


Rolls
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Offline amolapizza

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Re: Pizza alla romana in teglia
« Reply #7 on: February 19, 2018, 10:02:53 AM »
Hi amolapizza,

Just to confirm -if you speak French, cake yeast is levure fraiche de boulanger, no ? I don't know why it is called "cake" yeast in English  ???

Was it ok to get to 80% hydration with these flours ?
Dough looks good anyway !

Yes I'm pretty sure that refers to the same yeast.  And like already noted it's probably called cake yeast as you can/could by it like a big cake, not because it's meant for baking cakes with.  In italian it's called lievito di birra, beer yeast.

One observation though (which I've never seen discussed) is that there appears to be differences between cake yeast depending on where you buy it.  Here in Luxembourg we normally get Belgian yeast, it's grey and I don't like it because it makes the dough smell (imo) bad, though once baked I can't tell the difference.  My friend who used to have a pizzeria calls it schwartz hefe (black yeast).

I buy my yeast in an Italian shop and it is beige instead and the dough just smells fresh instead, no bad odour.  http://www.giallozafferano.it/images/prodotti/lievito_di_birra380m.jpg

80% hydro + oil is already very different from the 60-70% dough I'm used to making for bread and pizza, but it handled well without any bigger problems.  I think the secret in high hydration dough is the mixing technique and a flour that will accept a lot of water.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2018, 10:10:06 AM by amolapizza »
Effeuno P134H, Biscotto Fornace Saputo, Caputo Pizzeria, Mutti S. Marzano (DOP) :)

Offline amolapizza

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Re: Pizza alla romana in teglia
« Reply #8 on: February 19, 2018, 10:05:58 AM »
@amolapizza,

I think achieving a final dough temperature of around 24°C really helps regulate the fermentation of the dough.  One of the challenges I've found in making this type pf pizza is achieving the right degree of extensibility in the dough, which will really help with getting an even stretch in the pan.  If interested, the videos of Pino Arletto on Youtube are good examples of how to handle the dough properly.  All in all, your pizza looks good.

Thanks :)

I did manage to make it fit the pan without any problems, been watching some Bonci videos :)

What puzzles me a little is that it contracted slightly while cooking, so ended up smaller than the pan.  Am going to have to study a bit more, or maybe it's normal?
« Last Edit: February 19, 2018, 10:11:35 AM by amolapizza »
Effeuno P134H, Biscotto Fornace Saputo, Caputo Pizzeria, Mutti S. Marzano (DOP) :)

Offline Yael

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Re: Pizza alla romana in teglia
« Reply #9 on: February 19, 2018, 07:00:47 PM »
@Rolls : aaaah ok I get it  :P thank you

@amolapizza : the question has been asked recently in a French forum I visit, and I replied IMO that all the yeast should be the same because they're from the same cell (Saccharomyces cerevisiae), but then why are there so many different kind for different uses ? That's a question I can't answer  :-D
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Offline parallei

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Re: Pizza alla romana in teglia
« Reply #10 on: February 19, 2018, 08:09:17 PM »

What puzzles me a little is that it contracted slightly while cooking, so ended up smaller than the pan.  Am going to have to study a bit more, or maybe it's normal?

In my experience, all doughs in a a pan or not have contracted a bit.  For me, breads and pizza of any type rise due to oven spring and contract a bit in circumference due to loss of mass (water) and things tightening up. 
« Last Edit: February 19, 2018, 10:18:57 PM by parallei »

Offline amolapizza

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Re: Pizza alla romana in teglia
« Reply #11 on: February 21, 2018, 06:25:22 AM »
the question has been asked recently in a French forum I visit, and I replied IMO that all the yeast should be the same because they're from the same cell (Saccharomyces cerevisiae), but then why are there so many different kind for different uses ? That's a question I can't answer  :-D

Don't know if there are all that many types of yeast.  The ones that I know of and are normally mentioned here are: ADY Active Dry Yeast, IDY Instant Dry Yeast and CY Cake Yeast (fresh yeast).  So basically 2 different forms of dry yeast and fresh yeast.

Though there seems to be different qualities of fresh yeast depending on how it's been produced, witness the differences I note between the Belgium grey yeast and the Italian beige yeast.  In Spain I normally get a small bag with uncompressed yeast that is distinctly white and crumbly instead.

I'm about to embark on creating my own sourdough starter following this video, am curious what it would bring to my pizzas and bread:
Effeuno P134H, Biscotto Fornace Saputo, Caputo Pizzeria, Mutti S. Marzano (DOP) :)

Offline Yael

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Re: Pizza alla romana in teglia
« Reply #12 on: February 21, 2018, 09:03:30 AM »
Don't know if there are all that many types of yeast.  The ones that I know of and are normally mentioned here are: ADY Active Dry Yeast, IDY Instant Dry Yeast and CY Cake Yeast (fresh yeast).  So basically 2 different forms of dry yeast and fresh yeast.
[...]

Hi amolapizza,

There are more kinds of yeast. Talking about Lesaffre alone, you have :
- fresh (cake yeast) "l'hirondelle"
- ADY (the blue one)
- IDY
   - low sugar (the red one, for bakery)
   - high sugar (the golden one, for pastry)
- pizza IDY (the green one)

Then you have the Spadoni, you have the 5 Stagioni... All seem to be used with different dosage  ???
“Learn the rules like a pro so you can break them like an artist” - Pablo Picasso

Offline amolapizza

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Re: Pizza alla romana in teglia
« Reply #13 on: February 21, 2018, 09:55:06 AM »
Hi amolapizza,

There are more kinds of yeast. Talking about Lesaffre alone, you have :
- fresh (cake yeast) "l'hirondelle"
- ADY (the blue one)
- IDY
   - low sugar (the red one, for bakery)
   - high sugar (the golden one, for pastry)
- pizza IDY (the green one)

Then you have the Spadoni, you have the 5 Stagioni... All seem to be used with different dosage  ???

Oops didn't know that.  Or maybe it's just a question of marketing? ;)

There is a proverb in many languages saying that a beloved child has many names :)
Effeuno P134H, Biscotto Fornace Saputo, Caputo Pizzeria, Mutti S. Marzano (DOP) :)

Offline Yael

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Re: Pizza alla romana in teglia
« Reply #14 on: February 21, 2018, 07:49:07 PM »
Oops didn't know that.  Or maybe it's just a question of marketing? ;)

There is a proverb in many languages saying that a beloved child has many names :)

Yes maybe you're right. I'll try to call a Lesaffre's engineer to get some answers  :chef:
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Online Pete-zza

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Re: Pizza alla romana in teglia
« Reply #15 on: February 21, 2018, 07:55:09 PM »
Yes maybe you're right. I'll try to call a Lesaffre's engineer to get some answers  :chef:
Yael,

I don't know if it will help but I tried to aggregate information on yeast products at the top of the forum page at https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=40212.0.

Peter

Offline Yael

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Re: Pizza alla romana in teglia
« Reply #16 on: February 22, 2018, 08:35:45 AM »
Yael,

I don't know if it will help but I tried to aggregate information on yeast products at the top of the forum page at https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=40212.0.

Peter

Thanks a lot Peter, I saw this before, I already checked again and found new useful information ! About Lesaffre's website, I read it before, I'll check again. Sometimes you don't get all the information at once...
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