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Author Topic: Matt's NY Pizza, by HammettJr  (Read 81081 times)

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Offline nickyr

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Re: Matt's NY Pizza, by HammettJr
« Reply #1700 on: July 24, 2020, 12:51:24 AM »
Matt, pursuant to some of our discussions (and others elsewhere on the forum) about the effect of heat "type" on the finished pie, I made my first pies in a proper wood-burning oven yesterday. It was a fun challenge to build and tend the fire, move it around to properly heat the whole oven, etc. The results were a revelation. The pie bubbled for a bit upon extraction from the oven and the crust (used All Trumps; 24-hr cold ferment) was just incredible: crisp on the outside and soft and chewy on the inside. They don't look perfect in the photos, but they were *incredible*. It really makes me want to get a dedicated pizza oven--ideally a Baker's Pride gas one.
Ooh beautiful!

Online hammettjr

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Re: Matt's NY Pizza, by HammettJr
« Reply #1701 on: August 16, 2020, 11:43:35 AM »
2 big changes last week:

1) used butter (3.2%) in my NY dough for the first time

The first time I ever baked with butter was a pan pie a few weeks ago with 6% in the dough. I really liked it, so decided to try it in my NY dough. I went with a pretty high number at 3.2% because I wanted to make sure I could see the effects. For one thing, it seems to have led to significantly more browning on the rim. I haven't had this type of browning since I reduced my fermentation. Overall I liked the crust and will do my next bake with butter as well.

2) put a very small amount of heavy cream into my sauce

At my recent (3rd) visit to Lucia Pizza in Queens, I noted how creamy the pizza tasted. https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=55305.msg635145#msg635145

While I attributed the creaminess to the mozz and melt (and amount of mozz used and potentially to some hard cheese), I thought a shortcut could be trying some cream in the sauce. (Other options are to mess with the melt and to try a different mozz.) My thinking here is that I like my cheese broken down and creating orange grease. But when that happens I loose the creaminess. So adding some cream could be a way to achieve both.

I added just 1 teaspoon of cream into my 1.25 cups sauce. It was enough to lighten the color a bit. The result was very tasty. Overall I really enjoyed this pie. But I have a different experiment planned for this week, so no cream.

« Last Edit: August 16, 2020, 11:45:08 AM by hammettjr »
Matt

Offline Jon in Albany

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Re: Matt's NY Pizza, by HammettJr
« Reply #1702 on: August 16, 2020, 04:25:44 PM »
Looks good. I use the microwave extraction method with olive oil, garlic and oregano them mix it with tomatoes and a touch of cream for a quick "vodka" sauce. My kids like a vodka sauce pie with some bacon on top.

Offline nickyr

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Re: Matt's NY Pizza, by HammettJr
« Reply #1703 on: August 20, 2020, 12:48:12 AM »
2 big changes last week:

1) used butter (3.2%) in my NY dough for the first time

The first time I ever baked with butter was a pan pie a few weeks ago with 6% in the dough. I really liked it, so decided to try it in my NY dough. I went with a pretty high number at 3.2% because I wanted to make sure I could see the effects. For one thing, it seems to have led to significantly more browning on the rim. I haven't had this type of browning since I reduced my fermentation. Overall I liked the crust and will do my next bake with butter as well.

2) put a very small amount of heavy cream into my sauce

At my recent (3rd) visit to Lucia Pizza in Queens, I noted how creamy the pizza tasted. https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=55305.msg635145#msg635145

While I attributed the creaminess to the mozz and melt (and amount of mozz used and potentially to some hard cheese), I thought a shortcut could be trying some cream in the sauce. (Other options are to mess with the melt and to try a different mozz.) My thinking here is that I like my cheese broken down and creating orange grease. But when that happens I loose the creaminess. So adding some cream could be a way to achieve both.

I added just 1 teaspoon of cream into my 1.25 cups sauce. It was enough to lighten the color a bit. The result was very tasty. Overall I really enjoyed this pie. But I have a different experiment planned for this week, so no cream.
Mmm so much dairy! Looks lovely

Offline Eager2Learn

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Re: Matt's NY Pizza, by HammettJr
« Reply #1704 on: August 20, 2020, 10:25:02 AM »
2 big changes last week:

1) used butter (3.2%) in my NY dough for the first time

The first time I ever baked with butter was a pan pie a few weeks ago with 6% in the dough. I really liked it, so decided to try it in my NY dough. I went with a pretty high number at 3.2% because I wanted to make sure I could see the effects. For one thing, it seems to have led to significantly more browning on the rim. I haven't had this type of browning since I reduced my fermentation. Overall I liked the crust and will do my next bake with butter as well.

2) put a very small amount of heavy cream into my sauce

At my recent (3rd) visit to Lucia Pizza in Queens, I noted how creamy the pizza tasted. https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=55305.msg635145#msg635145

While I attributed the creaminess to the mozz and melt (and amount of mozz used and potentially to some hard cheese), I thought a shortcut could be trying some cream in the sauce. (Other options are to mess with the melt and to try a different mozz.) My thinking here is that I like my cheese broken down and creating orange grease. But when that happens I loose the creaminess. So adding some cream could be a way to achieve both.

I added just 1 teaspoon of cream into my 1.25 cups sauce. It was enough to lighten the color a bit. The result was very tasty. Overall I really enjoyed this pie. But I have a different experiment planned for this week, so no cream.
You are killing it man.  You really have that classic NY "look" dialed in.

Are you melting the butter?  Or just softened and adding it in?

How long was the ferment time on that?


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Online hammettjr

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Re: Matt's NY Pizza, by HammettJr
« Reply #1705 on: August 21, 2020, 07:12:58 PM »
You are killing it man.  You really have that classic NY "look" dialed in.

Are you melting the butter?  Or just softened and adding it in?

How long was the ferment time on that?

Thanks!

Not melted, just room temp. (We started keeping butter at room temp, wow its good.)

This was my usual (for the last several months), 1 day fridge with 0.25% IDY. Warms up for 40 minutes, still cool when opening.


Matt

Offline erickso1

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Re: Matt's NY Pizza, by HammettJr
« Reply #1706 on: August 21, 2020, 07:15:58 PM »
Thanks!

Not melted, just room temp. (We started keeping butter at room temp, wow its good.)

This was my usual (for the last several months), 1 day fridge with 0.25% IDY. Warms up for 40 minutes, still cool when opening.

Check out a butter bell.  Makes keeping butter at room temp a cinch.  Except when you run out and you need butter for your bread. 

Offline nickyr

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Re: Matt's NY Pizza, by HammettJr
« Reply #1707 on: August 28, 2020, 11:54:42 PM »
Yessss finally made a NY style Iím really happy with. Quite close to your recipe. Sir Lancelot flour (the first pie) is a real winner. I know you used that at some point, donít recall what youíre using now.

One question for you: how do you avoid liquid pooling? My first pie was over fermented, so I had pools in different places like you used to. My second pie was pretty well fermented so the pool was just in the middle.

Thanks so much!

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Re: Matt's NY Pizza, by HammettJr
« Reply #1708 on: August 29, 2020, 09:16:28 AM »
Yessss finally made a NY style Iím really happy with. Quite close to your recipe. Sir Lancelot flour (the first pie) is a real winner. I know you used that at some point, donít recall what youíre using now.

One question for you: how do you avoid liquid pooling? My first pie was over fermented, so I had pools in different places like you used to. My second pie was pretty well fermented so the pool was just in the middle.

Thanks so much!

Looks great!

I do use KASL. I bought a 50lb bag at the start of the pandemic and will order another bag soon.

Pooling, as you alluded to, can be a result of thin spots. But even with a well-made dough, you can stretch the center too thin,  creating effectively one big thin spot.

My/others strategy to avoid this is to stay away from the center when opening the dough. Everything I do is focused on the edges. The center has a way of stretching itself (mainly gravity).

Also, its good to put a little less sauce and cheese at the center as there tends to be some movement of the toppings towards the middle during the bake, even with a good stretch.

Matt

Offline nickyr

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Re: Matt's NY Pizza, by HammettJr
« Reply #1709 on: August 29, 2020, 10:11:09 AM »
Looks great!

I do use KASL. I bought a 50lb bag at the start of the pandemic and will order another bag soon.

Pooling, as you alluded to, can be a result of thin spots. But even with a well-made dough, you can stretch the center too thin,  creating effectively one big thin spot.

My/others strategy to avoid this is to stay away from the center when opening the dough. Everything I do is focused on the edges. The center has a way of stretching itself (mainly gravity).

Also, its good to put a little less sauce and cheese at the center as there tends to be some movement of the toppings towards the middle during the bake, even with a good stretch.
Thanks, thatís super helpful!

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Offline PizzaManic

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Re: Matt's NY Pizza, by HammettJr
« Reply #1710 on: September 11, 2020, 04:42:03 PM »
2 big changes last week:

1) used butter (3.2%) in my NY dough for the first time

The first time I ever baked with butter was a pan pie a few weeks ago with 6% in the dough. I really liked it, so decided to try it in my NY dough. I went with a pretty high number at 3.2% because I wanted to make sure I could see the effects. For one thing, it seems to have led to significantly more browning on the rim. I haven't had this type of browning since I reduced my fermentation. Overall I liked the crust and will do my next bake with butter as well.

2) put a very small amount of heavy cream into my sauce

At my recent (3rd) visit to Lucia Pizza in Queens, I noted how creamy the pizza tasted. https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=55305.msg635145#msg635145

While I attributed the creaminess to the mozz and melt (and amount of mozz used and potentially to some hard cheese), I thought a shortcut could be trying some cream in the sauce. (Other options are to mess with the melt and to try a different mozz.) My thinking here is that I like my cheese broken down and creating orange grease. But when that happens I loose the creaminess. So adding some cream could be a way to achieve both.

I added just 1 teaspoon of cream into my 1.25 cups sauce. It was enough to lighten the color a bit. The result was very tasty. Overall I really enjoyed this pie. But I have a different experiment planned for this week, so no cream.

Butter in your Dough - wow  :o that's a significant change. I haven't made Pizza in forever but I've been substituting butter for oil in my pizza's for the last few times I did make since I don't like the taste oil gives the final pizza especially when it's reheated. I'm curious to know how did butter vs oil workout for your pizza in terms of texture and flavor of the crust?
Regards Mo

Online hammettjr

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Re: Matt's NY Pizza, by HammettJr
« Reply #1711 on: December 24, 2020, 04:54:11 PM »
Butter in your Dough - wow  :o that's a significant change. I haven't made Pizza in forever but I've been substituting butter for oil in my pizza's for the last few times I did make since I don't like the taste oil gives the final pizza especially when it's reheated. I'm curious to know how did butter vs oil workout for your pizza in terms of texture and flavor of the crust?

Sorry for the extraordinary delay. Unfortunately I'm not at the point where I can decipher and describe with any certainty the impact of these changes in my final baked dough - I'm still learning the details of dough, after having spent so much time focusing on sauce and cheese. But I did like the result when I first made the switch for my pan pizzas, where I'm using 6%. The biggest advantage for me using butter vs oil is that I can add butter to the beginning of the mix, avoiding the mid-mix addition of oil.
Matt

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Re: Matt's NY Pizza, by HammettJr
« Reply #1712 on: December 24, 2020, 04:58:13 PM »
Happy Holidays All!

Hard to believe I haven't posted a pie on this thread since August, but I'm still still baking, experimenting and learning! I've learned a lot over the last couple months and hope to have a detailed post in the next week. For now, here's a slice from last night.  :chef:
Matt

Offline wb54885

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Re: Matt's NY Pizza, by HammettJr
« Reply #1713 on: December 24, 2020, 05:02:58 PM »
Yes.

Also hey I remember those pens!
Every oven is a law unto itself and only itself.

Offline nickyr

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Re: Matt's NY Pizza, by HammettJr
« Reply #1714 on: December 24, 2020, 11:06:54 PM »
Happy Holidays All!

Hard to believe I haven't posted a pie on this thread since August, but I'm still still baking, experimenting and learning! I've learned a lot over the last couple months and hope to have a detailed post in the next week. For now, here's a slice from last night.  :chef:
Please mail me some

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Offline novawaly

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Re: Matt's NY Pizza, by HammettJr
« Reply #1715 on: December 25, 2020, 12:39:35 AM »
2 big changes last week:

1) used butter (3.2%) in my NY dough for the first time

The first time I ever baked with butter was a pan pie a few weeks ago with 6% in the dough. I really liked it, so decided to try it in my NY dough. I went with a pretty high number at 3.2% because I wanted to make sure I could see the effects. For one thing, it seems to have led to significantly more browning on the rim. I haven't had this type of browning since I reduced my fermentation. Overall I liked the crust and will do my next bake with butter as well.

2) put a very small amount of heavy cream into my sauce

At my recent (3rd) visit to Lucia Pizza in Queens, I noted how creamy the pizza tasted. https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=55305.msg635145#msg635145

While I attributed the creaminess to the mozz and melt (and amount of mozz used and potentially to some hard cheese), I thought a shortcut could be trying some cream in the sauce. (Other options are to mess with the melt and to try a different mozz.) My thinking here is that I like my cheese broken down and creating orange grease. But when that happens I loose the creaminess. So adding some cream could be a way to achieve both.

I added just 1 teaspoon of cream into my 1.25 cups sauce. It was enough to lighten the color a bit. The result was very tasty. Overall I really enjoyed this pie. But I have a different experiment planned for this week, so no cream.

This looks great! Can you take me through your latest sauce recipe/technique/brand?

Also how much sauce/cheese on your pies? I saw an earlier thread where you said 3/4 of a cup for a 14? Is that still where you're at?

Offline jkb

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Re: Matt's NY Pizza, by HammettJr
« Reply #1716 on: December 25, 2020, 12:42:55 AM »
Damn.  I haven't had pizza since March.
John

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Re: Matt's NY Pizza, by HammettJr
« Reply #1717 on: December 25, 2020, 08:33:19 AM »
Damn.  I haven't had pizza since March.

 :o

Matt

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Re: Matt's NY Pizza, by HammettJr
« Reply #1718 on: December 25, 2020, 08:50:52 AM »
This looks great! Can you take me through your latest sauce recipe/technique/brand?

Also how much sauce/cheese on your pies? I saw an earlier thread where you said 3/4 of a cup for a 14? Is that still where you're at?

Thanks! The post you referenced was the only time I added a bit of cream, but I liked it and should probably try it again.

Not too many changes with my sauce. Thin sauce is crucial for my pie, so whole peeled run through a food mill using a fine plate. Alta Cucina tomato.

Into 1.25 cups of the tomato I currently add:
1/8 tsp salt
1/2 tsp sugar
1/64 tsp cayenne (I'm tempted to try more)
1/2 tsp dried oregano
<1/64 tsp garlic powder,  or if available 1/32 tsp microplaned fresh garlic .(I add either kind of garlic only 10 minutes before the bake.)
<1/64 tsp onion powder, just started experimenting with this again 2 bakes ago.

My method is to food mill the entire can of tomato and freeze in 1.5 cup portions (to ensure i get the full 1.25 cup for each batch). Defrost overnight in the fridge, then take out about 4 hours before bake. Then I make the sauce 2 hours before bake and leave at room temp.....but I don't have conviction that this is the best method. If your preference is to let the sauce marinate overnight in the fridge, or cook, or used infused oil, then go for it. But make sure the final consistency is thin.

Yes, I use 3/4 cup sauce for 14", maybe just slightly more as I like it to heap over the measuring cup a bit. I used to add 2 tbs extra, but eventually concluded it was too much.

About 9+1/8 oz mozz. Don't be afraid of a little cheese!

Currently using 415 grams of dough.

Good luck  :chef:

« Last Edit: December 25, 2020, 08:55:14 AM by hammettjr »
Matt

Offline novawaly

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Re: Matt's NY Pizza, by HammettJr
« Reply #1719 on: December 25, 2020, 09:38:51 AM »
Good stuff. Really appreciate you taking the time to write that up.

Two follow up questions. You said you freeze the tomatoes in 1.5 cup to ensure you get 1.25 for each batch but you use 3/4 for 14. That mean you're making smaller pies than 14 (just trying to make sure I didn't miss anything)

Also when you run the alta cucina through the strainer, are you only dropping the tomatoes themselves in, or do you dump the whole can with the liquid as well?

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