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Author Topic: Matt's NY Pizza, by HammettJr  (Read 26935 times)

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Offline hammettjr

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Re: Matt's NY Pizza, by HammettJr
« Reply #760 on: March 12, 2019, 06:13:18 PM »
And so it begins...

Planning to cook on my 16" stone from the Blackstone, in the oven. Middle rack, preheated 550 for an hour?

I also have a 14x15.5 CA Pizza Stone I could use instead. Or do a 2 stone bake?

Welcome to any other suggestions as well. Thanks !!

Awesome, I look forward to seeing your results! Comments:

Dough - thats the basic formula I've been using. I vary my IDY based on the time and temp, you should do the same. (I'm in a funny spot where I have 1 fridge that's too cold and 1 that's too warm).

Stone - use the CA stone only. At least an hour pre-heat. Do you have an IR thermometer?

Sauce amount - yes, I use about 3/4 cup+ for a 14" pie, which is saucy.

Sauce consistency - if you want the wet melt, the sauce should be thin and smooth. A blender plus strainer (or mill) using whole peeled tomato.

Hard cheese - note that I put 4 tsp parm into 1.25 cups sauce, but only use 0.75 cups sauce. So not the entire 4 tsp makes it onto the pie. And if using romano, I use less as its stronger.

Mozz - I use 9oz for 14", your picture said 9.75. Also, I'm using a 50/50 blend of whole milk and part skim. If you use only whole milk, use less than 9oz.

Matt

Offline jkb

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Re: Matt's NY Pizza, by HammettJr
« Reply #761 on: March 12, 2019, 07:49:34 PM »
Awesome, I look forward to seeing your results! Comments:

Dough - thats the basic formula I've been using. I vary my IDY based on the time and temp, you should do the same. (I'm in a funny spot where I have 1 fridge that's too cold and 1 that's too warm).

Stone - use the CA stone only. At least an hour pre-heat. Do you have an IR thermometer?

Sauce amount - yes, I use about 3/4 cup+ for a 14" pie, which is saucy.

Sauce consistency - if you want the wet melt, the sauce should be thin and smooth. A blender plus strainer (or mill) using whole peeled tomato.

Hard cheese - note that I put 4 tsp parm into 1.25 cups sauce, but only use 0.75 cups sauce. So not the entire 4 tsp makes it onto the pie. And if using romano, I use less as its stronger.

Mozz - I use 9oz for 14", your picture said 9.75. Also, I'm using a 50/50 blend of whole milk and part skim. If you use only whole milk, use less than 9oz.


I didn't want to answer a question directed at you, but we're squarely on the same page.
John

Offline Whisky

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Re: Matt's NY Pizza, by HammettJr
« Reply #762 on: March 12, 2019, 07:54:16 PM »
Awesome, I look forward to seeing your results! Comments:

Dough - thats the basic formula I've been using. I vary my IDY based on the time and temp, you should do the same. (I'm in a funny spot where I have 1 fridge that's too cold and 1 that's too warm).

Stone - use the CA stone only. At least an hour pre-heat. Do you have an IR thermometer?

Sauce amount - yes, I use about 3/4 cup+ for a 14" pie, which is saucy.

Sauce consistency - if you want the wet melt, the sauce should be thin and smooth. A blender plus strainer (or mill) using whole peeled tomato.

Hard cheese - note that I put 4 tsp parm into 1.25 cups sauce, but only use 0.75 cups sauce. So not the entire 4 tsp makes it onto the pie. And if using romano, I use less as its stronger.

Mozz - I use 9oz for 14", your picture said 9.75. Also, I'm using a 50/50 blend of whole milk and part skim. If you use only whole milk, use less than 9oz.

Thank you sir for the additional info! I do have an IR thermometer. I just realized my home oven only goes to 500.

Offline hammettjr

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Re: Matt's NY Pizza, by HammettJr
« Reply #763 on: March 12, 2019, 08:26:18 PM »
Thank you sir for the additional info! I do have an IR thermometer. I just realized my home oven only goes to 500.

500 is ok. Just bake until it's done to your liking. (For me I like orange grease)
Matt

Offline hammettjr

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Re: Matt's NY Pizza, by HammettJr
« Reply #764 on: March 12, 2019, 08:29:26 PM »

I didn't want to answer a question directed at you, but we're squarely on the same page.

On which, I'm guessing the stone? My CA stone is making a larger difference on the crust than I expected (in a good way). Though my melt isnt the same, which I'm guessing is because the mammoth stone is taking all the heat from my little oven.

(And even when I used my Blackstone, I didn't use the stock stone.)
Matt

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Offline jkb

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Re: Matt's NY Pizza, by HammettJr
« Reply #765 on: March 12, 2019, 08:35:17 PM »
Though my melt isnt the same, which I'm guessing is because the mammoth stone is taking all the heat from my little oven.

That's not going to happen unless you don't preheat it to equilibrium.
John

Offline hammettjr

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Re: Matt's NY Pizza, by HammettJr
« Reply #766 on: March 12, 2019, 08:38:23 PM »
That's not going to happen unless you don't preheat it to equilibrium.

I wasn't a physics major (or minor) and am lost.  But I remember seeing comments to leave a 1" gap around all sides of the stone. But I have zero gap at the door and maybe 1/4" in the back.

Matt

Offline Jackitup

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Re: Matt's NY Pizza, by HammettJr
« Reply #767 on: March 12, 2019, 10:15:40 PM »
https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=27572.msg279397#msg279397

A short thread on it, according to Scott123, gap on the sides of 1"  is the most important, tight front to back.
Jon

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Offline hammettjr

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Re: Matt's NY Pizza, by HammettJr
« Reply #768 on: March 13, 2019, 09:17:49 PM »
https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=27572.msg279397#msg279397

A short thread on it, according to Scott123, gap on the sides of 1"  is the most important, tight front to back.

Thanks. Could be. I'll need to experiment. Something is impacting my melt, but I made a bunch of changes at once, so it's hard to say the cause.


Matt

Offline invertedisdead

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Re: Matt's NY Pizza, by HammettJr
« Reply #769 on: March 14, 2019, 10:51:36 PM »
Your pizzas are looking great Matt, this last one with dough from your local shop really baked up with some nice color!  :chef:

Interesting to see you're back to Whole Peeled tomatoes, that's also where I've ventured back to, still passing through the food mill. The juice packing adds so much freshness to me.

How did the sauce compare baked in your oven vs the pizzeria? Did it taste the same?



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Offline jkb

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Re: Matt's NY Pizza, by HammettJr
« Reply #770 on: March 14, 2019, 10:58:34 PM »
I wasn't a physics major (or minor) and am lost.  But I remember seeing comments to leave a 1" gap around all sides of the stone. But I have zero gap at the door and maybe 1/4" in the back.

What about left and right?  Convection?  I've got a gas oven.  Bottom heat only.   IR broiler, but don't use it.
John

Offline hammettjr

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Re: Matt's NY Pizza, by HammettJr
« Reply #771 on: March 15, 2019, 07:05:54 AM »
Your pizzas are looking great Matt, this last one with dough from your local shop really baked up with some nice color!  :chef:

Interesting to see you're back to Whole Peeled tomatoes, that's also where I've ventured back to, still passing through the food mill. The juice packing adds so much freshness to me.

How did the sauce compare baked in your oven vs the pizzeria? Did it taste the same?

Thanks Ryan! Good to hear from you. Heads up your PM box is full.

I'm liking the whole peeled alot. I had previously found the Cento a bit too wet feeling,  but the video below inspired me to give them a shot, knowing I could add a touch of paste if needed. So far the Muir Glen seem less watery, and the paste may not be necessary, will confirm this weekend.

Good question regarding the flavor of my bake vs the pizzeria. I'm really not sure as I don't generally eat their pizza. I like their salads and wraps, but the pizza is very thick and I dont like the ratios. I bought the ingredients from them because I new their doughball was 800 grams, and therefore large enough for my 14" pie and 2 small pies my kids made. Naturally I'd say I liked my ratios and resulting bake better than theirs, even with their deck ovens, but it's personal preference and they have a solid business going.




Matt

Offline hammettjr

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Re: Matt's NY Pizza, by HammettJr
« Reply #772 on: March 15, 2019, 07:18:02 AM »
What about left and right?  Convection?  I've got a gas oven.  Bottom heat only.   IR broiler, but don't use it.

I haven't measured the gaps on the sides, below is a pic I posted previously, maybe 1.5" per side?

No convection. Electric oven bottom heated by elements hidden below the floor. There is an electric coil at the top for the broiler, but I've never used it.

I was baking on the 2nd from bottom rack. But the last bake, with the pizzeria ingredients, I went one rack higher to the middle rack. I was planning to do that again this week.

I was also considering dropping the stone temp a little, in case I want to let the pie bake longer...though I don't think I've ever gone longer than 8 minutes.

Lastly, I'll make sure my sauce is thin, and my sauce/cheese ratio is saucy.
Matt

Offline Fiorot

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Re: Matt's NY Pizza, by HammettJr
« Reply #773 on: March 15, 2019, 10:06:24 AM »
I put my stone directly on the floor of the oven.  Works great for me. 
« Last Edit: March 15, 2019, 10:08:45 AM by Fiorot »

Offline Pazzo

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Re: Matt's NY Pizza, by HammettJr
« Reply #774 on: March 15, 2019, 05:30:48 PM »
If you wanted your sauce to be tangier (tangy-er? tangyer?) have more tang, what would you add?
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Offline DreamingOfPizza

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Re: Matt's NY Pizza, by HammettJr
« Reply #775 on: March 15, 2019, 07:00:51 PM »
I am not sure if you mentioned how long your preheat is with new stone but I'm sure you already know, the thicker the stone the longer it takes to saturate itself with heat.

Offline hammettjr

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Re: Matt's NY Pizza, by HammettJr
« Reply #776 on: March 15, 2019, 07:16:57 PM »
I am not sure if you mentioned how long your preheat is with new stone but I'm sure you already know, the thicker the stone the longer it takes to saturate itself with heat.

Yep. I use IR gun to check. Preheat is about 1.5 hours, which seems longer than I need

Matt

Offline hammettjr

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Re: Matt's NY Pizza, by HammettJr
« Reply #777 on: March 15, 2019, 07:19:00 PM »
If you wanted your sauce to be tangier (tangy-er? tangyer?) have more tang, what would you add?

I'm not sure I even know what tang is  :)  But many canned tomatoes have added citric acid. I remember reading someone here experimenting with it. I've also read people use red wine vinegar. Maybe given that a shot?
Matt

Offline jkb

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Re: Matt's NY Pizza, by HammettJr
« Reply #778 on: March 15, 2019, 11:58:45 PM »
I'm not sure I even know what tang is

It's that stuff the astronauts drank on the moon.
John

Offline hammettjr

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Re: Matt's NY Pizza, by HammettJr
« Reply #779 on: March 16, 2019, 08:39:39 PM »
I got my melt back  :chef:

The major factor was altering my ratios. I studied the pre-bake pics of my pies, and it was clear I had to add more sauce. The reason is that the Muir Glenn WP has significantly less water than Cento SM. So even when using the same volume amount (~3/4 cup), it just wasn't covering right. I did this by eye, adding several half spoonfuls of sauce in addition to my heaping 3/4 cup. I also ended up only using ~8.5oz mozz, again based on the look. (Note to self that I did make other changes too, such as stone one rack higher and sauce being applied at room temp, but I'm confident that the smooth heavy-handed sauce was the driver of the melt.)

Bake was 8:15 with 6:45 on mesh and 1:30 direct on stone. Stone temp 510-520, oven temp 535. I also want to remove some of the credit I've been giving to the CA stone for the way my crust was baked the prior 2 bakes. The less watery sauce was definitely a part of it.

My challenge now is to get the 'right' undercrust. One problem is that I don't know exactly what I want. But I also stretched this pie inconsistently. The thinner areas ended up soggy, the thicker areas were better. I also think that a bit of a gumline is 100% required for me.

I experimented with the sauce by using some cayenne pepper and a small amount of fresh garlic. I'm not compelled to do either again next time (but should experiment more with this in the future).


Next bake:
- Back to usual pepper and garlic in the sauce
- Try a bit of romano
- Maybe slightly higher TF
- Figure out how to open the dough consistently. This dough is too easy too open. Maybe have it cooler.
- Sort out proper IDY to enable me to leave the dough in my (now fixed) fridge. This time I took the dough out a couple times to get the yeast going. Amount was 0.375%.

Note regarding the pics - with the time change there's a little bit of sunlight out when I took these pics. So I adjusted my custom white balance for the first time in a very long time. I'm not so sure I like the resulting color. Will need to adjust every week for a while as it gets brighter. Edit: the color on my phone is horrendous  >:( very annoying


« Last Edit: March 16, 2019, 08:46:06 PM by hammettjr »
Matt

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