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Author Topic: Matt's NY Pizza, by HammettJr  (Read 72310 times)

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Offline Jon in Albany

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Re: Matt's NY Pizza, by HammettJr
« Reply #1480 on: January 11, 2020, 08:08:38 PM »
My understanding of bromate was that it is to help build strength in the dough and I think it helps with oven spring too. I believe many things are more important to your pizza than bromate or even the protein content the flour. I'd say proper fermentation and how you open a dough are significantly more important than bromate.

Every so often I try a different flour. Unless I do a side by side it isn't fair....and I'm not buying 150 pounds of flour for testing. Too much changes as the home pizza enthusiast's abilities evolve. I'm much better at opening a dough than I was a few years ago. Hope to be even better a few years from now. Mixing, balling and my process have all improved too. Two weeks ago i wanted pizza but didn't get to Restaurant Depot to by my usual flour, Hummer which is bleached and bromated. I used a bag of KABF I grabbed at the store. As someone that feels he is hyper critical of his own pizza, I can say I didn't notice. I did notice my changes to the sauce which I straight up hated, but the crust was fine.

My 2 cents, if for some reason you like this pizza better, look for something else you did. I remember when Walter moved to Reno he was concerned about not having bromated flour. Wasn't a problem. I think he actually prefers it without now.

Offline hammettjr

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Re: Matt's NY Pizza, by HammettJr
« Reply #1481 on: January 11, 2020, 08:35:12 PM »
Many thanks Jon for your thoughts, great post
« Last Edit: January 11, 2020, 08:38:39 PM by hammettjr »
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Offline novawaly

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Re: Matt's NY Pizza, by HammettJr
« Reply #1482 on: January 12, 2020, 06:05:09 PM »
Hey Matt,

I've reached the point in my process where I'm realizing the sauce is where I need to spend some tinkering time. I read up the entire 28 page NY Sauce discussion thread but it's kind of hard to place the chronology of everything. Do you mind just sharing your thoughts on your where you're currently at with the sauces as you seemed to try a lot of suggestions in that thread that I wanted to try so curious to see where you've settled?

I've tried straight crushed out of the can and I've tried straining it through a mill but I think I like a slightly thicker sauce so I've been using cooked sauce recipes but it still doesn't have that NY style initial flavor im looking for and the melt isn't quite there.

I just got some Alta Cucina and a #10 can of Soporito Heavy Pizza sauce so trying to decide what to do with it. I was interested in the earlier suggestions on that thread to blend a percentage of milled tomatoes with some percentage of out of the can. Are you still doing that? Also considering trying the MAE method as well with some milled Alta Cucina WP.

Offline hammettjr

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Re: Matt's NY Pizza, by HammettJr
« Reply #1483 on: January 12, 2020, 06:33:09 PM »
...curious to see where you've settled?


Settled, I wish  :-D. I still experiment with my sauce a ton. But:

Thin/smooth sauce is key for me. I'm currently running Alta Cucina through a mill using the fine plate.

Starting a few bakes ago I've been cooking half of my tomato with a bit of fresh garlic and onion that I then remove. (And EVOO and oregano).

And I go heavy on the sauce.

Happy to discuss further. I'm keeping it brief as my dough is almost ready for baking and it's time to grate my cheese   :chef:
Matt

Offline hammettjr

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Re: Matt's NY Pizza, by HammettJr
« Reply #1484 on: January 12, 2020, 08:42:59 PM »
It's incredibly disappointing to have a mediocre bake...and concerning that there's a chance I wont be able to repeat my prior 2 amazing bakes  >:(

First, given this was the first time using bromated flour, I'll give my impressions of All Trumps. It was good - it stretched nicely, baked nicely and ate nicely. But, it wasn't materially different than what I've been recently achieving with King Arthur. (The crust did seem a little thicker than usual, despite using my usual amount, but who knows...there's too many variables to conclude anything.) I don't think I'm compelled to use it again. Glad to cross this one off the list.

But the sauce stunk! This happened to me previously, where I describe it as tasting like lemon juice. No noticeable salt, sugar, garlic, onion, oregano or basil...just lemon  ???

What was different in my sauce was that this was a new can of Alta Cucina. Last time I had this issue it was a new can too, and I think I ended up tripling the sugar next time and it worked. But I've stayed at that triple sugar amount, so now I guess I'll put even more. (All other elements were essentially the same as the last bake. Half cooked sauce etc.)

Potenital reasons for the bad sauce in descending order of liklihood
- new can of Alta Cucia more tart that the last one
- the Alta Cucina wasn't frozen first
- my fresh basil was half dead and therefore didnt have any flavor
- the undercrust was thicker and impacted the sauce bake
- my fresh basil was half dead and had bitter/tart flavor

Next time I guess I'll add more sugar. I'll search my thread for "lemon" to find the last time this happened.

« Last Edit: January 12, 2020, 09:23:41 PM by hammettjr »
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Offline Jon in Albany

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Re: Matt's NY Pizza, by HammettJr
« Reply #1485 on: January 12, 2020, 09:21:06 PM »
Sorry it was disappointing. I feel your sauce pain. My last batch sucked. Tasted like I added a lot of sugar but hadn't added any. Good thing about this hobby, there's always the next bake.

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Matt's NY Pizza, by HammettJr
« Reply #1486 on: January 12, 2020, 09:36:25 PM »
I use 7/11, or 6n1, lil water dilution.... Lil salt, lil pepper, lil Greek oregano. That's it. Love my NY pizzas.  ❤️
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Offline Fiorot

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Re: Matt's NY Pizza, by HammettJr
« Reply #1487 on: January 13, 2020, 06:34:38 PM »
Do I understand you crossed off All Trumps off the list?  LOL  When 95 percent of NY Pies are made with it?   Seriously?

Offline hammettjr

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Re: Matt's NY Pizza, by HammettJr
« Reply #1488 on: January 13, 2020, 08:03:01 PM »
Do I understand you crossed off All Trumps off the list?  LOL  When 95 percent of NY Pies are made with it?   Seriously?

Likely yes. Keep in mind I used the unbromated version exclusively for over a year.

Also, >95% of NYC pizzerias use NYC tap water.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2020, 08:21:27 PM by hammettjr »
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Offline hammettjr

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Re: Matt's NY Pizza, by HammettJr
« Reply #1489 on: January 13, 2020, 08:03:48 PM »
I use 7/11, or 6n1, lil water dilution.... Lil salt, lil pepper, lil Greek oregano. That's it. Love my NY pizzas.  ❤️

Wish you could taste one of my pies!
Matt

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Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Matt's NY Pizza, by HammettJr
« Reply #1490 on: January 14, 2020, 12:06:29 AM »
Wish you could taste one of my pies!

Send me one!   🍕💪🍻😎😜
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Offline Fiorot

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Re: Matt's NY Pizza, by HammettJr
« Reply #1491 on: January 14, 2020, 04:27:07 PM »
Likely yes. Keep in mind I used the unbromated version exclusively for over a year.

Also, >95% of NYC pizzerias use NYC tap water.
I think that NYC water thingy has been debunked.  It reminds me of Corona Beer and Coors.  One comes from a Country where you can't even drink the water and the other comes from mountain springs.   Yet....    :-D

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Matt's NY Pizza, by HammettJr
« Reply #1492 on: January 14, 2020, 05:10:56 PM »
I think that NYC water thingy has been debunked.
Fiorot,

What you say is true, at least according to Tom Lehmann as he explained the matter at the PMQ Think Tank at:

https://thinktank.pmq.com/threads/ny-style-crust-in-florida.679/#post-3210

Tom also opined on the matter here on the forum at Reply 3 at:

https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=58169.msg583598#msg583598

Peter

Offline hammettjr

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Re: Matt's NY Pizza, by HammettJr
« Reply #1493 on: January 14, 2020, 10:04:40 PM »
I think that NYC water thingy has been debunked...


Precisely my point
Matt

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Re: Matt's NY Pizza, by HammettJr
« Reply #1494 on: January 14, 2020, 11:15:06 PM »
I remember reading this article about a year ago suggesting NYC water is not Kosher due to the presence of “tiny shrimp called copepods.” Yuck!
https://www.nycfoodpolicy.org/10-facts-you-may-not-know-about-new-york-citys-drinking-water/
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Offline Fiorot

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Re: Matt's NY Pizza, by HammettJr
« Reply #1495 on: January 15, 2020, 06:42:21 PM »
I remember reading this article about a year ago suggesting NYC water is not Kosher due to the presence of “tiny shrimp called copepods.” Yuck!
https://www.nycfoodpolicy.org/10-facts-you-may-not-know-about-new-york-citys-drinking-water/
LOL now that is funny.  Does the Hasidim own a bottled water company?

Offline Jon in Albany

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Re: Matt's NY Pizza, by HammettJr
« Reply #1496 on: January 16, 2020, 01:29:20 PM »
Matt-

A recent Dough Doctor post on bromate you might find interesting.

https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=60514.msg606336#msg606336

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Matt's NY Pizza, by HammettJr
« Reply #1497 on: January 16, 2020, 05:01:00 PM »
Matt-

A recent Dough Doctor post on bromate you might find interesting.

https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=60514.msg606336#msg606336
And for those who would like to do a deeper dive, this is an old AIB document on bromates that was archived at the Wayback Machine:

https://web.archive.org/web/20130820221140/https://www.aibonline.org/press/SafeUsePotassiumBromate%2009_08.pdf

Peter

Offline Jon in Albany

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Re: Matt's NY Pizza, by HammettJr
« Reply #1498 on: January 16, 2020, 06:14:32 PM »
And for those who would like to do a deeper dive, this is an old AIB document on bromates that was archived at the Wayback Machine:

https://web.archive.org/web/20130820221140/https://www.aibonline.org/press/SafeUsePotassiumBromate%2009_08.pdf

Peter
Thanks, Peter that's a good find.

Offline quietdesperation

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Re: Matt's NY Pizza, by HammettJr
« Reply #1499 on: January 17, 2020, 04:24:03 PM »
Do I understand you crossed off All Trumps off the list?  LOL  When 95 percent of NY Pies are made with it?   Seriously?

I've come to believe that if the bake is correct, most people taste sauce and cheese. No one in my group of tasters can tell the difference between AT, KAAP, and KABF.
"If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world" - the hobbit, jrr tolkien

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