A D V E R T I S E M E N T


Author Topic: My Road To Napoli  (Read 20465 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Heikjo

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 869
  • Location: Oslo, Norway
  • A sour dough makes a happy me
Re: My Road To Napoli
« Reply #40 on: October 21, 2018, 03:28:43 PM »
I was thinking about getting the biscotto from Effeuno too. I thought the one they sell was what people bought. Maybe not?

I got a Norwegian shop which I'll probably use if I get one. At least for the oven.
-Heine. Mostly Neapolitan sourdough pizzas in an electric Effeuno P134H.

Offline amolapizza

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1626
  • Location: Luxembourg / Spain
  • If pizza is food for the gods, what are we..
Re: My Road To Napoli
« Reply #41 on: October 27, 2018, 11:13:29 AM »
I see that you bought the oven, congratulations! :)

Regarding the biscotto, if the store you bought from can't get it for you, I can give you an email address to Fornace Saputo to order one.  IIRC it was about 30-40E, most of it transport.
Jack

Effeuno P134H (500C), Biscotto Fornace Saputo, Sunmix Sun6, Caputo Pizzeria, Caputo Saccorosso, Mutti Pelati.

Offline Heikjo

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 869
  • Location: Oslo, Norway
  • A sour dough makes a happy me
Re: My Road To Napoli
« Reply #42 on: October 27, 2018, 12:15:26 PM »
Thanks! Can't wait to get it.

I'll see what the store can get. They are slow to respond on messages, so I'll try phoning next week. Good to know alternative ways to get the stone. I'll ask if needed. :)
-Heine. Mostly Neapolitan sourdough pizzas in an electric Effeuno P134H.

Offline amolapizza

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1626
  • Location: Luxembourg / Spain
  • If pizza is food for the gods, what are we..
Re: My Road To Napoli
« Reply #43 on: October 28, 2018, 10:21:13 AM »
One from last night:  Set the upper thermostat to 400C and the lower one to 300C and let the oven heat up.  Then I set the upper thermostat to 500 and about 2 minutes later I inserted the pizza, the biscotto showed about 460C.  Cooking time was around 60-65s, with the pizza turned and "domed" for about 10s.  The flash photo doesn't really do it justice as it was really a lot more golden than what it seems.

One really has to be careful when cooking at this heat and speed, as 10s seems to make the difference between good and burnt :)

Jack

Effeuno P134H (500C), Biscotto Fornace Saputo, Sunmix Sun6, Caputo Pizzeria, Caputo Saccorosso, Mutti Pelati.

Offline amolapizza

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1626
  • Location: Luxembourg / Spain
  • If pizza is food for the gods, what are we..
Re: My Road To Napoli
« Reply #44 on: January 20, 2019, 08:30:57 AM »
Long time since my last post, been making a lot of tasty pizza, but haven't really advanced for a while now.  It feels like I'm turning a bit in circles :)

Have spent quite a lot of time to get to grips with my oven, and think I've found a reasonable starting point to work with it.  Surely due be revised again as I slowly understand and improve on my pizza making...

To recapitulate I have an F1 P134H oven that I've upgraded with 500C thermostat and a 3cm thick low conductivity terracotta stone (a so called biscotto).  This type of terracotta stone is often used in Neapolitan wood fired pizza ovens in order not to burn the bottom of the pizza too much while cooking at elevated temperatures.

My present modus operandi is as follows:  Heat the oven for 30 minutes with both upper and lower heating element at max (500/450C).  Turn off the lower element and put the upper to 400C, then wait 15 minutes for temperatures to stabilize.  When I start making pizza I turn the upper thermostat to 500C, and after 3-4 minutes when I'm ready to launch the first pizza I measure about 450-470C on the deck and the upper element is red hot.

Cooking time seems to be about 70-80 seconds depending on how and how much I turn the pizza, keep the door open, try to dome it etc.  If I need to make a pause I lower the upper thermostat to 400C and repeat the above later, otherwise I just bake one after the other, and the 3-4 minutes it takes to stretch and decorate the next pizza allows the temperature on the deck to increase to 450-470C again.

I think with the above method of cooking the bottoms definitely aren't burnt, but it seems like the cornicione doesn't expand as much as with more heat from below, and the cooking time is slightly longer.  I'll probably try to add some more heat from below to see at what point I find my personal balance between heat and cooking time.  I know that I can use more heat from under the stone, but my fiancee doesn't really the bottom too black, so I'm trying to find a point that appeals to both of us, and that makes a nice soft Neapolitan without being either burnt or too crispy.

Some of last nights pizza.  Dough was caputo pizzeria at 62% hydration, 2.9% salt, bulk for 23 hours and 7 hours in balls at ~22-23C.  It was slightly over fermented and there were quite a few big balloons in the cornicione that I had to squish as I don't like the huge burnt black boils I'd get otherwise.  Ball weight was 220g and final size about 28cm.  Think I'm gonna stay with 220g for a while and see how that works out.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2019, 08:47:43 AM by amolapizza »
Jack

Effeuno P134H (500C), Biscotto Fornace Saputo, Sunmix Sun6, Caputo Pizzeria, Caputo Saccorosso, Mutti Pelati.

A D V E R T I S E M E N T


Offline Heikjo

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 869
  • Location: Oslo, Norway
  • A sour dough makes a happy me
Re: My Road To Napoli
« Reply #45 on: January 20, 2019, 03:42:36 PM »
It's been a while. Always nice to see your updates when you talk about how you operate the oven and do things, Amola. Good looking pies and probably even more in real life. I'm a lousy photographer of pizza. Partly because I use my phone that is no good, the lighting is poor and I just want to eat pizza. :)

I've learned a lot about the oven from your posts here and on La Confraternita Della Pizza. We don't have the exact same version and you upgraded to 500C, but it's useful to read about your train of thought and how to approach the tuning of the oven. Made my first pies tonight and I didn't make a mess in the oven, so I'm happy with it. The bottom was probably a bit too hot and charred it more than I wanted, but it tasted good. At 45 minutes the stone was over 500C. I've read some users not turning the pies, but I see that you do it and based on the staggering amount of two pies tonight, it might be something to work on. It was definitely hotter on the inner most part of the oven.

Interesting to see your method of turning off the lower element and leaving it off, I'll keep that in mind. The upper element is maybe heating the stone more than the lower when you are close to bake, so both thermostats has to be tuned together.
-Heine. Mostly Neapolitan sourdough pizzas in an electric Effeuno P134H.

Offline amolapizza

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1626
  • Location: Luxembourg / Spain
  • If pizza is food for the gods, what are we..
Re: My Road To Napoli
« Reply #46 on: January 22, 2019, 03:45:57 PM »
I also prefer eating and socializing to photography :)  And yes, I've eaten a lot of excellent pizza made with this oven!  Still I seem to feel passion and always have an urge to improve, not always easy :)

Happy If my travails and feasting has been of use to someone  ;D

I suppose that my ideas are only one approach to using the oven.  How to set the dials would depend on how you use the oven.  For instance how long you heat it up, how often you open the door, how long you let it heat up between pizzas, etc..

I think it's necessary to find a balance between the heat from the top and the bottom that fits the work flow.  I tend to turn on the oven, waste time on social things, and then maybe bake a pizza or two, eat, then maybe make a few more.  I simply can't leave the dials on max and ignore the temps, because then I'll pull out a pizza far more cooked on the bottom than on the top.  My theory is that even the biscotto accumulates too much heat that it releases into the pizza.

Regarding turning the pizza, I think that unfortunately I can't get away from it.  Normally my pizza's are more cooked on the sides, but the back and even more the front is less cooked.  Been trying some isolation for the door which seems to improve things, maybe I'll let someone construct a metal shield to mount on the inside of the oven.  The other thought is to buy a 1900W element as it has a few more turns in the front of the oven compared to mine.

Still I think I'm gonna get a smaller peal for turning the pizza easier and faster  :D
Jack

Effeuno P134H (500C), Biscotto Fornace Saputo, Sunmix Sun6, Caputo Pizzeria, Caputo Saccorosso, Mutti Pelati.

Offline Jlowden2978

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 34
  • Location: Cape cod, Ma
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: My Road To Napoli
« Reply #47 on: January 23, 2019, 10:31:10 AM »
If anyone is looking.  They were very quick and got right back to me.

Offline Heikjo

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 869
  • Location: Oslo, Norway
  • A sour dough makes a happy me
Re: My Road To Napoli
« Reply #48 on: January 23, 2019, 12:34:06 PM »
Might get a peel for turning myself. What kind would you get? I know many like a small 7-8" on larger ovens where the operation is done inside the oven. Do you plan to turn inside the or take it out to turn? I've seen people do both on YouTube.
-Heine. Mostly Neapolitan sourdough pizzas in an electric Effeuno P134H.

Offline amolapizza

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1626
  • Location: Luxembourg / Spain
  • If pizza is food for the gods, what are we..
Re: My Road To Napoli
« Reply #49 on: January 23, 2019, 01:57:15 PM »
If anyone is looking.  They were very quick and got right back to me.

Not sure why you felt the need to post that in this thread, I already have a p134h and paid a lot less for it :)

I bought it at a discount as a member of La Confraternita della Pizza, but you more or less have to do it in Italian.  Otherwise the oven sells for around $522 on ebay, but you'd have to arrange your own transport to the US.  And if you want to use it at Neapolitan temperatures, do get a biscotto with it too..  Also beware of the voltage differences... :)
« Last Edit: January 24, 2019, 06:53:36 AM by amolapizza »
Jack

Effeuno P134H (500C), Biscotto Fornace Saputo, Sunmix Sun6, Caputo Pizzeria, Caputo Saccorosso, Mutti Pelati.

A D V E R T I S E M E N T


Offline amolapizza

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1626
  • Location: Luxembourg / Spain
  • If pizza is food for the gods, what are we..
Re: My Road To Napoli
« Reply #50 on: January 23, 2019, 02:03:10 PM »
Might get a peel for turning myself. What kind would you get? I know many like a small 7-8" on larger ovens where the operation is done inside the oven. Do you plan to turn inside the or take it out to turn? I've seen people do both on YouTube.

I was thinking an 7-8" one, hopefully I could open the door, move the pizza 90 degrees and close the door in 2-3 seconds, that is bound to be much better than the current, take out and turn outside of the oven 5-10 seconds :)
Jack

Effeuno P134H (500C), Biscotto Fornace Saputo, Sunmix Sun6, Caputo Pizzeria, Caputo Saccorosso, Mutti Pelati.

Offline Hanglow

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 731
  • Location: Scotland
  • The next one will be better
Re: My Road To Napoli
« Reply #51 on: January 23, 2019, 02:38:14 PM »
I've got a 19cm falci turning peel which I like. You just buy the head then it fits  a wooden broom handle with a wood screw. Although my oven is a bigger wfo.  That might be a good option if you cut the handle down. Roccbox have also started offering a  turning peel that might well be ideal for small ovens
« Last Edit: January 23, 2019, 02:44:40 PM by Hanglow »

Offline Heikjo

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 869
  • Location: Oslo, Norway
  • A sour dough makes a happy me
Re: My Road To Napoli
« Reply #52 on: January 23, 2019, 05:27:37 PM »
At 4:35 in this video they turn using a small round peel. I think that should work very well. I agree that turning it inside the oven is the better way to go.

-Heine. Mostly Neapolitan sourdough pizzas in an electric Effeuno P134H.

Offline Heikjo

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 869
  • Location: Oslo, Norway
  • A sour dough makes a happy me
Re: My Road To Napoli
« Reply #53 on: January 25, 2019, 01:36:07 PM »
With your recent oven management, do you never turn the bottom element back on again? Just in the beginning to help heating up the stone?
-Heine. Mostly Neapolitan sourdough pizzas in an electric Effeuno P134H.

Offline schold

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 795
  • Location: Norway
Re: My Road To Napoli
« Reply #54 on: January 25, 2019, 02:56:05 PM »
In that video, too little care is taken to avoid losing heat, in my opinion.
Cooking is not a recipe, it's a philosophy - unless it's pastry, then it's chemistry.

- Marco Pierre White

A D V E R T I S E M E N T


Offline Heikjo

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 869
  • Location: Oslo, Norway
  • A sour dough makes a happy me
Re: My Road To Napoli
« Reply #55 on: January 25, 2019, 04:30:05 PM »
In that video, too little care is taken to avoid losing heat, in my opinion.
It's open a while, but it's at the end of the bake and just before they take it out. I don't imagine those seconds with the door open made a huge difference. Up to that point it was closed the entire time. The turning might not even have been needed.

I'd love to find a way to use this oven where I don't have to open the door and do some turning.
-Heine. Mostly Neapolitan sourdough pizzas in an electric Effeuno P134H.

Offline amolapizza

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1626
  • Location: Luxembourg / Spain
  • If pizza is food for the gods, what are we..
Re: My Road To Napoli
« Reply #56 on: January 25, 2019, 05:09:22 PM »
Me too :)

Maybe 1900W element and a shield for the door.

Still it seems to cook less in the back too, if you put it too far in.
Jack

Effeuno P134H (500C), Biscotto Fornace Saputo, Sunmix Sun6, Caputo Pizzeria, Caputo Saccorosso, Mutti Pelati.

Offline Heikjo

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 869
  • Location: Oslo, Norway
  • A sour dough makes a happy me
Re: My Road To Napoli
« Reply #57 on: January 26, 2019, 03:26:39 AM »
My version got the 1900W element and triple door, so maybe it come down to positioning. I've read comments on the Italian forum where they suggest it's not needed. Comes down to oven management I guess. I have noticed when baking that some pies looked more even than others when I turn them. Could be positioning and structure of the cornicione. With some air bubbles at one end that blow up and burn, it might look like a bigger difference than actually is. There's the stone too though, which from what I can tell is certainly hotter further in.
-Heine. Mostly Neapolitan sourdough pizzas in an electric Effeuno P134H.

Offline amolapizza

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1626
  • Location: Luxembourg / Spain
  • If pizza is food for the gods, what are we..
Re: My Road To Napoli
« Reply #58 on: January 30, 2019, 02:18:30 PM »
With your recent oven management, do you never turn the bottom element back on again? Just in the beginning to help heating up the stone?

I missed this :)

Yes I only have the lower on during the first 30 minutes to speed up the preheating.

FWIW, after the temperature has stabilized, the lower thermostat clicks around 300-325C.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2019, 02:23:00 PM by amolapizza »
Jack

Effeuno P134H (500C), Biscotto Fornace Saputo, Sunmix Sun6, Caputo Pizzeria, Caputo Saccorosso, Mutti Pelati.

Offline schold

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 795
  • Location: Norway
Re: My Road To Napoli
« Reply #59 on: February 03, 2019, 04:04:50 PM »
It's open a while, but it's at the end of the bake and just before they take it out. I don't imagine those seconds with the door open made a huge difference. Up to that point it was closed the entire time. The turning might not even have been needed.

I was thinking about all that time spent on getting the uncooked pie into the oven. That should of course be done as quickly as possible. I also thought that the turning process wasn't necessary in that bake.
Cooking is not a recipe, it's a philosophy - unless it's pastry, then it's chemistry.

- Marco Pierre White

A D V E R T I S E M E N T


 

wordpress