A D V E R T I S E M E N T


Author Topic: My Road To Napoli  (Read 11208 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline amolapizza

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 669
  • Location: Luxembourg / Spain
  • If pizza is food for the gods, what are we..
Re: My Road To Napoli
« Reply #60 on: March 14, 2019, 03:07:51 PM »
Interesting..

I accidentally made a dough which had risen much less than I normally do, so I made another test bake to repeat.

328g Caputo pizzeria blu
203g Water
18g Sea salt
0,2g CY

12.30 Hand mixed (around 20 minutes).
13.30 Folds and forming a panetto, then the fridge for 24 hours.
13.30 An hour to warm up.
14.30 Staglio, 2 panetti of 240g.
22.00 Baked for 65 seconds in the p134h at about 480C on the biscotto.

It was planned for 20.30, but I thought the balls needed a little bit more time.  I'd estimate that the balls increased in volume about 50% during apretto.  Can't say that I noticed much if any signs of levitation when I formed the balls.

The result surprised me as it seems to give me a much airier cornicione than I normally get.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2019, 03:16:04 PM by amolapizza »
Jack,

Effeuno P134H (1700W upper element), EGO 500C Thermostat (upper), Biscotto Fornace Saputo, Sunmix Sun6, Caputo Pizzeria, Caputo Sacorosso, Mutti Pelati Bio.

Offline Heikjo

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 869
  • Location: Oslo, Norway
  • A sour dough makes a happy me
Re: My Road To Napoli
« Reply #61 on: March 14, 2019, 05:04:24 PM »
Very nice! After baking bread and pizza for years, both with IDY and sourdough, how far a dough should fermented before use is something I've never settled on. The truth is probably that there is a pretty large window with different characteristics across the spectrum. I think it's very useful to try all sides of the spectrum. Not because you want to make doughs at the extreme ends, but to see how it affects the dough. Based on the photos in here and elsewhere on the internet, one can safely assume that there is no golden standard that everyone adheres to. Some doughs looks like pancakes while others are very blown up.
-Heine. Mostly Neapolitan sourdough pizzas in an electric Effeuno P134H.

Offline amolapizza

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 669
  • Location: Luxembourg / Spain
  • If pizza is food for the gods, what are we..
Re: My Road To Napoli
« Reply #62 on: March 14, 2019, 06:02:53 PM »
Thanks :)

Yes, we all have to find our personal way of making pizza.  Between our ingredients, oven and how we make our dough, there is a lot to be learnt.  What I've learnt from bread is that a less risen dough will shoot upwards, while a dough that has risen a lot will tend to spread out much more.  Maybe there is a parallel.

« Last Edit: March 14, 2019, 06:11:36 PM by amolapizza »
Jack,

Effeuno P134H (1700W upper element), EGO 500C Thermostat (upper), Biscotto Fornace Saputo, Sunmix Sun6, Caputo Pizzeria, Caputo Sacorosso, Mutti Pelati Bio.

Offline amolapizza

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 669
  • Location: Luxembourg / Spain
  • If pizza is food for the gods, what are we..
Re: My Road To Napoli
« Reply #63 on: March 24, 2019, 07:39:54 AM »
This was very tasty, Pizza del Priore:

Dough: Caputo pizzeria blu, 62% hydration, 2.9% salt, CY, 32 hours (1 RT, 24 fridge, 1 RT, staglio, 6 apretto a RT).  The dough expanded about 50% during apretto.

Topping:EVO & water emulsion, FDL.
Post bake: Agretti (parboiled for 3 minutes and dressed with EVO and fleur de sel), Half hard boiled egg.

Cooked for 60-65 seconds in the p134h.

And a Margherita :)
« Last Edit: March 24, 2019, 09:01:10 AM by amolapizza »
Jack,

Effeuno P134H (1700W upper element), EGO 500C Thermostat (upper), Biscotto Fornace Saputo, Sunmix Sun6, Caputo Pizzeria, Caputo Sacorosso, Mutti Pelati Bio.

Offline amolapizza

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 669
  • Location: Luxembourg / Spain
  • If pizza is food for the gods, what are we..
Re: My Road To Napoli
« Reply #64 on: March 31, 2019, 02:05:21 PM »
Dinner yesterday.

Caputo pizzeria blu, 62% hydration, 2.75% salt, CY, 1h puntata at 23C, 24h in fridge, then 1h to warm up, staglio, and finally 6h of apretto at 23C.  Cooked for 60-70 seconds at 480-500C (on the deck) in my F1 p134h.

The last had some launch issues :)

« Last Edit: March 31, 2019, 02:12:48 PM by amolapizza »
Jack,

Effeuno P134H (1700W upper element), EGO 500C Thermostat (upper), Biscotto Fornace Saputo, Sunmix Sun6, Caputo Pizzeria, Caputo Sacorosso, Mutti Pelati Bio.

A D V E R T I S E M E N T


Offline Icelandr

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1014
  • Age: 72
  • Location: Gabriola Island, British Columbia
  • 5 years and closer to. . a really Good Pizza!
Re: My Road To Napoli
« Reply #65 on: March 31, 2019, 04:07:33 PM »
Picky me . . . . Any way you can lighten up your pics? I would love to be able to see it better
I used my phone to lighten
PizzaParty 70x70, saputo floor

Offline amolapizza

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 669
  • Location: Luxembourg / Spain
  • If pizza is food for the gods, what are we..
Re: My Road To Napoli
« Reply #66 on: March 31, 2019, 04:47:43 PM »
OK, I had the camera on -1 f stops, I'll try 1/3rd.  Thought that they always seem a bit whiter than life,, but maybe that wasn't the right solution :)
Jack,

Effeuno P134H (1700W upper element), EGO 500C Thermostat (upper), Biscotto Fornace Saputo, Sunmix Sun6, Caputo Pizzeria, Caputo Sacorosso, Mutti Pelati Bio.

Offline Icelandr

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1014
  • Age: 72
  • Location: Gabriola Island, British Columbia
  • 5 years and closer to. . a really Good Pizza!
Re: My Road To Napoli
« Reply #67 on: March 31, 2019, 05:03:33 PM »
I didn’t say I did it right . . . I just lightened it, there are a ton of photographers out there, I just wanted to see more detail. I shouldn’t mess with your post.
PizzaParty 70x70, saputo floor

Offline amolapizza

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 669
  • Location: Luxembourg / Spain
  • If pizza is food for the gods, what are we..
Re: My Road To Napoli
« Reply #68 on: March 31, 2019, 05:09:03 PM »
Don't worry about it, I'm happy to get feedback and I think you're right!

So thanks! :)

I probably should get a good light.. :D
Jack,

Effeuno P134H (1700W upper element), EGO 500C Thermostat (upper), Biscotto Fornace Saputo, Sunmix Sun6, Caputo Pizzeria, Caputo Sacorosso, Mutti Pelati Bio.

Offline Heikjo

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 869
  • Location: Oslo, Norway
  • A sour dough makes a happy me
Re: My Road To Napoli
« Reply #69 on: April 01, 2019, 01:49:11 AM »
I was about to point out the same as Icelandr. :D

It's more about lighting sources than camera settings. An additional lamp, original just move the plate to a better lit place. You make some beautiful pizzas, they deserve to look their best. That first one with the green toppings looks great.
-Heine. Mostly Neapolitan sourdough pizzas in an electric Effeuno P134H.

A D V E R T I S E M E N T


Offline amolapizza

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 669
  • Location: Luxembourg / Spain
  • If pizza is food for the gods, what are we..
Re: My Road To Napoli
« Reply #70 on: April 01, 2019, 05:47:31 AM »
I'll see what I can do.  I don't have very good lightening where I normally make the photos, and pizza is to be eaten hot..:)  Mostly I've used the flash but thought it made the pizza look very white.  Guess I have to step up my game when taking the pics, and/or use a program :)

The first one is indeed very good.  White with blanched Agretti seasoned with fleur de sel and EVO, and some hardboiled egg to finish it off.  Think I'm gonna try that with spinach and other greens too.
Jack,

Effeuno P134H (1700W upper element), EGO 500C Thermostat (upper), Biscotto Fornace Saputo, Sunmix Sun6, Caputo Pizzeria, Caputo Sacorosso, Mutti Pelati Bio.

Offline amolapizza

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 669
  • Location: Luxembourg / Spain
  • If pizza is food for the gods, what are we..
Re: My Road To Napoli
« Reply #71 on: April 07, 2019, 07:34:07 AM »
I'm still going to have to improve my lighting, photography and post processing, but this is what I cooked last night :)

Caputo pizzeria blu, 62% hydration, 2.75% salt, CY, 1h puntata at 23C, 24h in fridge, then 1h to warm up, staglio, and finally 6h of apretto at 23C.  Cooked for 60-65 seconds at 480-500C (on the deck) in my F1 p134h.  Panietti of ca 240g and finished pizza about 28cm.

I think I've understood that working the dough a lot leads to a chewy/gummy pizza, so this time I tried to minimize the kneading when making the dough, and also not tightening the dough much when forming the balls.  The result seem to validate the theory and I'll be making more tests in this direction.  Was among the softest (least chewy) pizzas that I've made so far.  Trying to get better at the slap too, maybe someday I'll be able to extend them as I see the neapolitan pizzaioli do in videos on the net. :)

1. Speck, parboiled spinach (dressed with EVO & salt), boiled egg and a sprinkle of grana padano.
2. Carbonara, speck, egg yolk, grana padano and black pepper.
3. Prosciutto & funghi porcini.
4. Chorizo & garlic

The carbonara definitely needs more speck, and possibly a sharper cheese.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2019, 08:48:09 AM by amolapizza »
Jack,

Effeuno P134H (1700W upper element), EGO 500C Thermostat (upper), Biscotto Fornace Saputo, Sunmix Sun6, Caputo Pizzeria, Caputo Sacorosso, Mutti Pelati Bio.

Offline Heikjo

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 869
  • Location: Oslo, Norway
  • A sour dough makes a happy me
Re: My Road To Napoli
« Reply #72 on: April 07, 2019, 08:52:18 AM »
Looks good as always.

Not having to knead the dough as much is one of the advantages of a longer ferment I suppose. I don't know if you need more when using the fridge compared to a higher temperature.

I've lately done some stretching and folding every 15-20 minutes after mixing 2-3 times. This lets me create a more uniform dough without the need for too much kneading. I wonder if one could achieve somewhat the same results by using autolyse.

A soft pizza is always what I'm aiming for with Neapolitan. The amount of kneading, timing of balling/reballing and how much you work the dough when balling are some factors that I use to make the dough extensible enough when opening and also achieve a soft rim.

I've had some doughs that I could just slap open, but that require a really relaxed dough. For me, that means more yeast (starter), longer fermentation, warmer fermentation temperature or longer between balling and opening.

Do you ball or reball after the fridge or are the balls not touched when they are first balled until you open them?
-Heine. Mostly Neapolitan sourdough pizzas in an electric Effeuno P134H.

Offline amolapizza

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 669
  • Location: Luxembourg / Spain
  • If pizza is food for the gods, what are we..
Re: My Road To Napoli
« Reply #73 on: April 07, 2019, 10:45:10 AM »
Thanks!

I think I'm finally beginning to understand a few things.

The aim is to have a panietto that has risen the right amount, still has sufficient gluten mesh, and combines the required extensebility/elasticity & tenacity.  This seems easier said than done :D

Lately I also use a measuring glass to monitor the dough expansion.  For me about 50-60% expansion in the measuring glass seems just about right.

Regarding the kneading, lately I've been trying to do the minimum while still incorporating as much air as I can.  I stop before it starts feeling tight and too dry in my hands.  There also seems to be a relationship in how tightly I form the balls and how long I keep them in apretto.

I don't think I've ever reballed.  I've been mostly making 8-9h RT doughs.  It's just lately I've started doing a fridge dough.  It's kind of related to my free hours and when I want to eat :)

I mix the dough, leave it for ca 40 minutes at RT, then the entire dough goes in the fridge.  It's at the top and when I measure the temp it's about 7-8C.  Then I take it out, and reverse the container on the workplace and leave it for an hour to warm up a bit.  Then I do the staglio and make the balls which I leave on wooden cutting boards with bowls over them for about 6 hours.  Like that they are nice and dry at the bottom, I might take the bowls off 5-10 minutes before cooking to let the top dry out a little too.  It seems that they are more wet after 32h RT/CT than after 9h RT.  I guess that's the water being released as the gluten web is being weakened.

« Last Edit: April 07, 2019, 10:46:54 AM by amolapizza »
Jack,

Effeuno P134H (1700W upper element), EGO 500C Thermostat (upper), Biscotto Fornace Saputo, Sunmix Sun6, Caputo Pizzeria, Caputo Sacorosso, Mutti Pelati Bio.

Offline amolapizza

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 669
  • Location: Luxembourg / Spain
  • If pizza is food for the gods, what are we..
Re: My Road To Napoli
« Reply #74 on: April 30, 2019, 06:06:23 PM »
Carbonara: oil/water emulsion, FdL, pecorino romano, guanciale. Post: more pecorino romano, egg yolk & black pepper.

Note to self: next time more guanciale & pecorino, maybe even drop the FdL :D
Jack,

Effeuno P134H (1700W upper element), EGO 500C Thermostat (upper), Biscotto Fornace Saputo, Sunmix Sun6, Caputo Pizzeria, Caputo Sacorosso, Mutti Pelati Bio.

A D V E R T I S E M E N T


Offline amolapizza

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 669
  • Location: Luxembourg / Spain
  • If pizza is food for the gods, what are we..
Re: My Road To Napoli
« Reply #75 on: May 02, 2019, 05:38:42 PM »
@Heikjo:

This is how my dough looks after hand mixing it for 20 minutes.

Never got all those air pockets when doing a no knead.. :)
Jack,

Effeuno P134H (1700W upper element), EGO 500C Thermostat (upper), Biscotto Fornace Saputo, Sunmix Sun6, Caputo Pizzeria, Caputo Sacorosso, Mutti Pelati Bio.

Offline Heikjo

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 869
  • Location: Oslo, Norway
  • A sour dough makes a happy me
Re: My Road To Napoli
« Reply #76 on: May 03, 2019, 11:44:31 AM »
Thanks!

How does this change the final product? Does it get airier? I think my current pies gets nice and airy even without kneading, so I wonder what other properties it can affect. How about texture on the cornicione?

If you compare the 20 minute kneaded dough to one that's just mixed and kneaded a minute, is it worth the investment? 20 minutes by hand is quite a lot.

To me, texture and lightness of the crumb is more important than volume.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2019, 11:56:47 AM by Heikjo »
-Heine. Mostly Neapolitan sourdough pizzas in an electric Effeuno P134H.

Offline amolapizza

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 669
  • Location: Luxembourg / Spain
  • If pizza is food for the gods, what are we..
Re: My Road To Napoli
« Reply #77 on: May 05, 2019, 09:26:13 AM »
I wish I had a good answer :)

I'm slowly fumbling my way through this.  I just don't have the experience to say what is better..  I like how the finished dough feels in my hands, fluffy, light, dry.  How that translates to the finished product is another question.

My pizza has been getting less gummy/chewy since I started to mix like this instead of just mixing it together and then doing stretch and folds.  But there could be a myriad of other factors at work ;)
Jack,

Effeuno P134H (1700W upper element), EGO 500C Thermostat (upper), Biscotto Fornace Saputo, Sunmix Sun6, Caputo Pizzeria, Caputo Sacorosso, Mutti Pelati Bio.

Offline Arne_Jervell

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 543
  • Location: Norway
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: My Road To Napoli
« Reply #78 on: May 05, 2019, 10:19:10 AM »
Carbonara: oil/water emulsion, FdL, pecorino romano, guanciale. Post: more pecorino romano, egg yolk & black pepper.

Note to self: next time more guanciale & pecorino, maybe even drop the FdL :D
Wow they keep looking better and better.

I like the sound of this one as well.

Offline amolapizza

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 669
  • Location: Luxembourg / Spain
  • If pizza is food for the gods, what are we..
Re: My Road To Napoli
« Reply #79 on: May 06, 2019, 04:13:06 AM »
A small detour :)

Pizza Tonda Romana, aka Scrocchiarella.

6 hour direct dough extended with a roller (180g balls) and cooked for ca 3.5 minutes at around 280-300C.

505g Caputo pizzeria blue sack
280g Water
  10g Salt
    6g EVO
 3.2g CY

1. Margherita
2. Zucchini flowers & anchovy
3. Prosciutto & funghi
4. Quatro formaggi & walnuts
« Last Edit: May 06, 2019, 04:17:10 AM by amolapizza »
Jack,

Effeuno P134H (1700W upper element), EGO 500C Thermostat (upper), Biscotto Fornace Saputo, Sunmix Sun6, Caputo Pizzeria, Caputo Sacorosso, Mutti Pelati Bio.

A D V E R T I S E M E N T


 

wordpress