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Author Topic: My Road To Napoli  (Read 10741 times)

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Offline amolapizza

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Re: My Road To Napoli
« Reply #180 on: August 23, 2019, 06:56:25 AM »
Topping heavy can be a reason. I thought about having a light screen, lot from below, put the skin on it and take a photo og the pattern. Then after baking I take a photo of the bottom of the pie to see if the pattern matches.

I was also thinking about doing something similar.  It would help me understand if there is indeed such a relationship.  Say between the black underneath and heavy topping, air bubbles in the skin, stretched thin areas, etc.  I'm sure that too much flour causes burnt areas at high temperatures, but I don't think this is the entire answer that I'm seeking.  The comment about sticky dough also becoming black was interesting to read and seems to correspond to a test I made lately.  Food for thought, someday I'll conquer the dark side of the pizza too :)
Jack,

Effeuno P134H (1700W upper element), EGO 500C Thermostat (upper), Biscotto Fornace Saputo, Sunmix Sun6, Caputo Pizzeria, Caputo Sacorosso, Mutti Pelati Bio.

Offline DoouBall

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Re: My Road To Napoli
« Reply #181 on: August 23, 2019, 08:29:19 AM »
Using a spiral mixer is new to me, so I'm still experimenting..  Though lately I've done it like this.  First I dissolve the salt, then add the yeast and let that turn at minimum speed  (68 rpm) for 5 minutes.  This is because I'm trying to emulate the Da Michele dough and as far as I can tell they do this.  Supposedly it changes the dough characteristics, though I'm not sure about that.  I ought to make the same dough twice (one with early and the other with late salt) to see if there is any truth to this..  This autumn I suppose :)

Then I add all the flour, let it run at minimum for 5 minutes, 15 minutes pause and finally a few turns at minimum, then I put it away for bulk just like that, no S/F, no shaping and tightening the skin, etc.  At this point the dough is quite rough but has come together, it removes as one piece from the mixer and leaves the bowl more or less clean.  The gluten hasn't formed very long strings yet, so you can pull pieces off it without the dough stretching very much.

It's an interesting and very different method to what I'm doing - may have to try it sometime. Thanks for sharing!

Offline amolapizza

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Re: My Road To Napoli
« Reply #182 on: August 23, 2019, 08:31:34 AM »
You're welcome!  After all it's the purpose of a forum like this! :D
Jack,

Effeuno P134H (1700W upper element), EGO 500C Thermostat (upper), Biscotto Fornace Saputo, Sunmix Sun6, Caputo Pizzeria, Caputo Sacorosso, Mutti Pelati Bio.

Offline Heikjo

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Re: My Road To Napoli
« Reply #183 on: August 23, 2019, 11:08:38 AM »
One challenge with the bottom is achieving an even bake without too much charring when the stone is hotter in the middle. If the middle of the stone has perfect temperature, will the sides be too low then and cause slightly under-baked areas? And if the sides are at a perfect temperature, the middle will be hotter.

This is one reason I thought about having an insert that shielded the stone from the direct heat and spread the radiant heat more across the entire stone.
-Heine. Mostly Neapolitan sourdough pizzas in an electric Effeuno P134H.

Offline amolapizza

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Re: My Road To Napoli
« Reply #184 on: August 25, 2019, 06:18:57 AM »
I guess the best way to know is to try :)

I might try someday too, but I think my priorities is getting better with my DM clone, and upgrading the oven a bit.  I've really gotten an urge for the PID upgrade, we'll see if I succumb as modding the oven that much seems a bit over the top when it already works so well.  Still... :)

Getting a shield for the door seems a good idea though.  I've seen one made from 3mm steel, with an extra glass and 2 extra pieces of steel holding it in place.  Have no idea what it would cost to have it made in Luxembourg though as everything is expensive here..  Personally I don't have the tools needed to easily make it and to produce something good.. Adding an extra gasket around the door also seems like a a good idea and probably not very expensive.
Jack,

Effeuno P134H (1700W upper element), EGO 500C Thermostat (upper), Biscotto Fornace Saputo, Sunmix Sun6, Caputo Pizzeria, Caputo Sacorosso, Mutti Pelati Bio.

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Offline amolapizza

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Re: My Road To Napoli
« Reply #185 on: September 01, 2019, 03:03:27 PM »
Since I'm on vacation and can't bake pizza I thought I'd share another dish with you.

I'd like to present "El Salmorejo", the brother of the more famous gazpacho.  A Spanish delicacy from Cordoba.

Ingredients:

1kg tomatoes
200g fresh bread with small alveoles
100g quality extra virgin olive oil
10g salt
1 clove of garlic

In this dish the tomato is the king. Use good quality ripe tomatoes.  Do not peel the tomatoes and if you keep them in the refrigerator, let them reach room temperature before starting, this will help the emulsification.

Use the best olive oil you can afford. The use of a delicate or stronger oil depends on personal taste.  Personally I prefer a delicate tasting one.

The real star of this dish is the tomato, a clove of garlic is more than enough. If you have a delicate stomach, leave it for half an hour in water and vinegar, this will make it less strong.

Do not overdo the salt, 10g per kilo of tomato is perfect.

Preparation:

Add bread, tomato, salt, oil and garlic in a bowl in this order, the tomato liquid will wet the bread and facilitate mixing.  Mix with an immersion blender, if you have a food processor use it, as it will produce a very fine and creamy structure.

Cool it slightly before serving, you don't have to send it to Siberia, but a few degrees below room temperature is good.

Seasoning:

Don't overdo the seasoning. Traditionally, hard-boiled eggs and jamon serrano are used, but you can use cod, shrimp, orange, chopped apple, etc.  With a little oregano you could have a liquid Marinara! :D

Buon appetito!
« Last Edit: September 01, 2019, 03:49:25 PM by amolapizza »
Jack,

Effeuno P134H (1700W upper element), EGO 500C Thermostat (upper), Biscotto Fornace Saputo, Sunmix Sun6, Caputo Pizzeria, Caputo Sacorosso, Mutti Pelati Bio.

Offline Arne_Jervell

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Re: My Road To Napoli
« Reply #186 on: September 01, 2019, 04:11:43 PM »
Thank you for sharing, bookmarked and will try!

Offline amolapizza

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Re: My Road To Napoli
« Reply #187 on: September 01, 2019, 04:29:33 PM »
You're welcome.

I think it's super good, especially if you have tasty tomatoes (like from your own garden).  To be honest I could eat it for breakfast, lunch, snack and dinner :D
Jack,

Effeuno P134H (1700W upper element), EGO 500C Thermostat (upper), Biscotto Fornace Saputo, Sunmix Sun6, Caputo Pizzeria, Caputo Sacorosso, Mutti Pelati Bio.

Offline sk

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Re: My Road To Napoli
« Reply #188 on: September 25, 2019, 03:51:43 PM »
A small detour :)

Pizza Tonda Romana, aka Scrocchiarella.

6 hour direct dough extended with a roller (180g balls) and cooked for ca 3.5 minutes at around 280-300C.

505g Caputo pizzeria blue sack
280g Water
  10g Salt
    6g EVO
 3.2g CY



Amolapizza:  We just returned from Rome and had the pizza there.  Is Pizza Tonda Romana what the style is called?  Would I use the recipe above to cook it in my WFO?  Time and temp?  I would like to give it a try.

Scott
Pizza Party 70x70 WFO/stock bricks

Offline amolapizza

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Re: My Road To Napoli
« Reply #189 on: September 29, 2019, 02:18:51 PM »
Well I think in Rome it's just called a pizza! :)  Generally in Rome they tend to bake either a thin and crispy round pizza, or a large variety of thicker style pizzas often sold as slices.  I'd call it a pizza tonda romana (roman round pizza), to distinguish it against other styles.  It's also often called scrocchiarella which translated means crunchy/crackly/etc, but scrocchiarella could also be applied to pizza in teglia, etc.

In Italy there are so many different types of pizza, it's hard to say what is what, and talking about it can often get an emotional issue.. :)

I've kind of reached a point of no advancement on the neapolitan, so I've decided to make roman style pizza for a while.  Hopefully when I come back to it, it's likely to advance a level again (hopefully) :)  Scrocchiarella is also such a very tasty pizza! :D

I created a new thread to document and discuss my take on the round roman pizza: https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=59433.0

For cooking in your WFO, I think you should be looking for a cooking time of around 3-4 minutes and a saturated deck/dome at around 280-300C, with coals instead of flames.

« Last Edit: September 29, 2019, 02:20:44 PM by amolapizza »
Jack,

Effeuno P134H (1700W upper element), EGO 500C Thermostat (upper), Biscotto Fornace Saputo, Sunmix Sun6, Caputo Pizzeria, Caputo Sacorosso, Mutti Pelati Bio.

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Offline amolapizza

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Re: My Road To Napoli
« Reply #190 on: December 02, 2019, 02:55:05 PM »
Just got a new toy, though it really took a long time get here.

The probes go up to 700C, so hopefully this will help me better understand the F1 p134h and biscotto.  I also hope it will help with monitoring dough maturation temperatures.
Jack,

Effeuno P134H (1700W upper element), EGO 500C Thermostat (upper), Biscotto Fornace Saputo, Sunmix Sun6, Caputo Pizzeria, Caputo Sacorosso, Mutti Pelati Bio.

Offline Icelandr

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Re: My Road To Napoli
« Reply #191 on: December 02, 2019, 08:01:14 PM »
Sorry you have reached . . A point of no advancement for Neapolitan . . . .A, it likely means you will no longer be posting on this board and B, I wonder if I am just a slow study, I have a ton to learn yet.
Good luck with your pursuit
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Offline amolapizza

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Re: My Road To Napoli
« Reply #192 on: December 03, 2019, 06:02:40 AM »
Don't worry, I'll be back :)

At the moment I've been working on learning to cook the roman tonda style.  A much thinner and crunchy pizza.  Think I've more or less achieved what I wanted as to how to make the dough (my style).  I still want to get better at extending them and I also want to investigate how I can bake them better on the biscotto  (at the moment I cook them on the refractory stone).

For the Neapolitan I felt that I was in a slump and didn't quite know how to proceed.  I think the 32 hour Da Michele style dough was coming out very well, but I felt frustrated with my oven and how to improve cooking in it.

Thus I wanted to investigate my oven, its temperatures and maybe make some modifications to it.  I ordered the gadget above in the beginning of September, but due to buying it from china and a shipment that went awry it took until now to get it.  I've also been waiting for many months for a new resistance (differently shaped) that apparently helps with more even cooking.  Hopefully I'll finally get it this weekend (hope springs eternal) :)

I feel that opening the oven to turn the pizza is bad for the cooking, the oven cools down too much so I'd like to see if I can find a way of cooking them that doesn't include opening the door.

I have more plans for adding more insulation, adding insulation to the door and possibly replacing the thermostats with PID controllers, but I really wanted to start with measuring temperatures in the oven as is. This in order to better understand how it works, how I can improve my way of working with it, and what my eventual modification change.

Elena likes these 3.5 minute thin and crunchy pizza better than Neapolitan, but we both also like a good 2 minute pizza and personally I really like a 1 minute Margherita.  I think my problems with a lot of black on the bottom of the Neapolitan are probably due both to my own practices and the limitations of my electric oven.  I do hope to understand and eliminate my faults with the style.

I think it's been productive for me doing a different style for a while.  I know that some people swear that the Neapolitan is the best, but personally I think that there are so many different styles of delicious pizza that it's a bit of a pity to be one track minded about it.  For me it's been kind of a reset and very educative.  I'm pretty sure that I've learnt things about pizza making that will be helpful also when I come back to the Neapolitan!

I find myself gravitating back to traditional toppings, like ham, salami, funghi, olives, onions, etc.  I've tried many different combinations and will keep some of them, but many experiments have left me underwhelmed with the result.  It's also been interesting to note how toppings cook differently at different temperatures. 

Since I got caught up in a discussion about European vs US flours and NY style pizza, this has also been on my mind.  I think at some point I'll try to tackle the NY style too, even though I don't have easy access to US flours, nor pepperoni and other ingredients normally used.  I'm pretty confident that with a little bit of testing I could make a passable NY style pizza also with European flour.  Probably too small to be called NY, but still the taste ought to be similar.

My biggest problem in learning is probably that I only make pizza once a week.  If I would make pizza everyday I'm sure I'd advance a lot faster..  Maybe I can step it up to twice a week.  One, the by now traditional Saturday evening pizza, but maybe also Wednesday at lunch or something like that.  We'll see..

And in conclusion, thanks for caring!  It made me happy to see that you were missing my posts :D
Jack,

Effeuno P134H (1700W upper element), EGO 500C Thermostat (upper), Biscotto Fornace Saputo, Sunmix Sun6, Caputo Pizzeria, Caputo Sacorosso, Mutti Pelati Bio.

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