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Author Topic: The Doughs of My Life  (Read 42050 times)

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Offline Arne_Jervell

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Re: The Doughs of My Life
« Reply #800 on: May 16, 2020, 04:51:31 AM »
Thank you both, gentlemen. :pizza:

Yesterday was a cool but sunny day in Lommedalen and with Margherita Madness 2 planned three weeks from now, a little practice seems prudent. We actually had the pleasure of having guests over, which was really nice. (Don't worry, we have a rather spacious outdoor area with plenty of options for safe distance seating). ;D

I made dough with Petra 5063, a flour that has really grown on me. I used 66% water, 2.8% salt and 6% SD. Fermented and matured for 22 hours at 20.2°C (12 hours in bulk, 10 in balls). Pluviometer level around 26, meaning a rise of about 70%. I was very happy with this dough, it was spot on for my taste.

In addition to the practice margheritas, we topped up with other ingredients from the fridge too. Mushroom is a big hit these days, so is beef with spring onion and lemon zest. With our guests having the sense to bring plenty of warm clothing, we endured the sunset and ended up having a long and fun evening outdoors.



Offline SAUZER.ITALY

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Re: The Doughs of My Life
« Reply #801 on: May 16, 2020, 05:39:26 AM »
Wow !!! very goooooddddd  ^^^ ^^^ Bravo !

Offline Arne_Jervell

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Re: The Doughs of My Life
« Reply #802 on: May 16, 2020, 09:26:29 AM »
Thank you Renato! :chef:  :chef:

Offline DoouBall

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Re: The Doughs of My Life
« Reply #803 on: May 16, 2020, 11:05:15 AM »
Arne, these pies are some of my favorites from your whole thread! The browning on the cornicione is spot on. I am very jealous that you can get Petra 5063. I have heard it is a great flour but it is near impossible for home bakers to get Petra in US.

Offline Arne_Jervell

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Re: The Doughs of My Life
« Reply #804 on: May 17, 2020, 04:39:54 AM »
Arne, these pies are some of my favorites from your whole thread! The browning on the cornicione is spot on. I am very jealous that you can get Petra 5063. I have heard it is a great flour but it is near impossible for home bakers to get Petra in US.

Wow thanks a lot, Alex! Funny thing is that while I can get Petra from my local Italian specialty store, it is actually cheaper for me to buy Caputo Pizzeria online and have it shipped via UPS from Italy to my home. Now that I've fallen in love with Petra, I'll probably pay the price though (once my stockpile of Pizzeria is spent  :-D).

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Offline Pete_da_Bayer

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Re: The Doughs of My Life
« Reply #805 on: May 17, 2020, 05:39:43 AM »
Beautiful pies, Arne. They look like paintings. That flour makes me curious. Actually i wanted to get back to regional flour in the long run, but a test batch of unknown flours now and then is always interesting.

Offline Pedro1

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Re: The Doughs of My Life
« Reply #806 on: May 17, 2020, 08:24:24 AM »
Beautiful pies Arne! Would you say that there were any marked differences in terms of ease of shaping the doughs between Petra and Caputo Pizzeria with all other variables the same? Thanks!

Offline DoouBall

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Re: The Doughs of My Life
« Reply #807 on: May 17, 2020, 11:49:14 AM »
Wow thanks a lot, Alex! Funny thing is that while I can get Petra from my local Italian specialty store, it is actually cheaper for me to buy Caputo Pizzeria online and have it shipped via UPS from Italy to my home. Now that I've fallen in love with Petra, I'll probably pay the price though (once my stockpile of Pizzeria is spent  :-D).

Arne, what would you say are the main differences between the Petra and Caputo? Is Petra significantly better in some ways?

Thanks,

Alex

Offline Yael

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Re: The Doughs of My Life
« Reply #808 on: May 17, 2020, 08:48:42 PM »
I never thought I would go to Norway one day but... You convinced me  ;D ;D ;D
“Learn the rules like a pro so you can break them like an artist” - Pablo Picasso

Offline Arne_Jervell

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Re: The Doughs of My Life
« Reply #809 on: May 18, 2020, 02:09:55 AM »
Thank you all for the nice comments.  :D
That flour makes me curious. Actually i wanted to get back to regional flour in the long run, but a test batch of unknown flours now and then is always interesting.

Would you say that there were any marked differences in terms of ease of shaping the doughs between Petra and Caputo Pizzeria with all other variables the same? Thanks!

Arne, what would you say are the main differences between the Petra and Caputo? Is Petra significantly better in some ways?

For the most part, I find that Petra 5063 is remarkably similar to Caputo Pizzeria in many ways, and by now I have come to be equally fond of these two flours. I also think there are a few minor differences that are interesting to me, but they are not huge. Making similar doughs and comparing side by side has at least convinced me of some differences.

Observation 1: 5063 absorbs water a little better than Pizzeria. Right out of the mixer, the 5063 holds better together and is less sticky than Pizzeria. This difference seems to diminish with time, however. After fermentation and maturation, this is no longer a detectable difference to me (but it is still noticeable when when I ball up the dough after bulk).

Observation 2: 5063 dough balls end up flatter than their Pizzeria equivalents. Initially I though this was my imagination, but after multiple comparison bakes I have found that on average, final height if my Caputo dough balls are 11% taller than similar balls made from the Petra flour. What's even stranger, the diameters are not different by my measurements! So there must be a volume difference. Maybe there is less air captured in my 5063 doughs, or maybe more air is escaping from them.

These two observations I am fairly confident of at this point.

In addition I could mention a couple of impressions that I have. I am not sure these are "real differences" yet. There are too many other variables to control, and I need more experience to evaluate:

Impression 1: Petra 5063 seems to get slightly more oven spring than Pizzeria.

Impression 2: Petra 5063 overall feels a bit softer to the touch when opened.

Impression 3: The finished pizza tastes practically identical.

I have not yet gone beyond 24 hours with Petra but am planning to do a side-by-side for a 48 hour dough at some point.

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Offline Arne_Jervell

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Re: The Doughs of My Life
« Reply #810 on: May 18, 2020, 04:44:46 AM »
I never thought I would go to Norway one day but... You convinced me  ;D ;D ;D

That's quite a trip, Yael!  :-D

If you do, come in the summer!  :pizza:

Offline Yael

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Re: The Doughs of My Life
« Reply #811 on: May 18, 2020, 10:08:02 AM »
That's quite a trip, Yael!  :-D

If you do, come in the summer!  :pizza:

Yeah I know, I wouldn't miss that day! (as my brother who lives in Quebec said: "summer is the day I prefer here"  ;D)
“Learn the rules like a pro so you can break them like an artist” - Pablo Picasso

Offline DoouBall

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Re: The Doughs of My Life
« Reply #812 on: May 18, 2020, 11:23:02 AM »
Thank you all for the nice comments.  :D
For the most part, I find that Petra 5063 is remarkably similar to Caputo Pizzeria in many ways, and by now I have come to be equally fond of these two flours. I also think there are a few minor differences that are interesting to me, but they are not huge. Making similar doughs and comparing side by side has at least convinced me of some differences.

Observation 1: 5063 absorbs water a little better than Pizzeria. Right out of the mixer, the 5063 holds better together and is less sticky than Pizzeria. This difference seems to diminish with time, however. After fermentation and maturation, this is no longer a detectable difference to me (but it is still noticeable when when I ball up the dough after bulk).

Observation 2: 5063 dough balls end up flatter than their Pizzeria equivalents. Initially I though this was my imagination, but after multiple comparison bakes I have found that on average, final height if my Caputo dough balls are 11% taller than similar balls made from the Petra flour. What's even stranger, the diameters are not different by my measurements! So there must be a volume difference. Maybe there is less air captured in my 5063 doughs, or maybe more air is escaping from them.

These two observations I am fairly confident of at this point.

In addition I could mention a couple of impressions that I have. I am not sure these are "real differences" yet. There are too many other variables to control, and I need more experience to evaluate:

Impression 1: Petra 5063 seems to get slightly more oven spring than Pizzeria.

Impression 2: Petra 5063 overall feels a bit softer to the touch when opened.

Impression 3: The finished pizza tastes practically identical.

I have not yet gone beyond 24 hours with Petra but am planning to do a side-by-side for a 48 hour dough at some point.

Arne, thanks for the detailed analysis. I was curious about these differences so I also dug up the spec sheet. Petra is really great about that - very detailed information available. You can click Download here to download the spec sheet:

https://shop.farinaearte.it/pizzeria/27-petra-5063-special.html#/7-peso_confezione-12_5_kg

And here's the info on Pizzeria:

https://www.mulinocaputo.it/en/flour/la-linea-professionale/pizzeria

Seems almost identical in Protein values and W values. Petra might be a tiny bit stronger as it is 12.50-13% protein and Pizzeria is 12.5%. The other difference I can see is that 5063 has a p/l value of 0.55-0.65 and Pizzeria has a p/l value of 0.50/0.60. Here, "P" expresses the resistance of the dough to deformation and "L" represents the extensibility of the dough or its ability to rise (source = http://www.theartisan.net/flour_criteria_judging.htm). This means Petra might rise a bit higher and mirrors your experience during baking.

On a separate note, my friend Dario Scopelliti, an award-winning Pizzaiolo in the UK has had great success using Petra Allegra (5046), the weaker sibling of 5063, although he uses fresh yeast, and I think that Allegra might be too weak for sourdough. He also said he had good results with using Petra Special (5063) as a preferment and Petra Allegra as the refreshment flour. Cheers! -Alex





« Last Edit: May 18, 2020, 11:25:44 AM by DoouBall »

Offline amolapizza

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Re: The Doughs of My Life
« Reply #813 on: May 18, 2020, 11:35:22 AM »
FWIW, in the last pdf for the Caputo pizzeria that I have, the Brabender absorbment measurement is listed as 58-60%.
Jack

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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: The Doughs of My Life
« Reply #814 on: May 18, 2020, 05:16:31 PM »
There is also good information on the Petra flours, including the Petra 5063, at:

https://www.farinapetra.it/assortimento.php

Peter

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Offline Arne_Jervell

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Re: The Doughs of My Life
« Reply #815 on: May 26, 2020, 06:45:18 AM »
Yesterday was nice, sunny and warm (20°C), so I jumped at the chance of making pizza outside again.

100% Petra 5063, 66% water, 2.7% salt and 6% SD.
24 hours at 19.6°C, 14 in bulk and 10 in balls.
Spy/pluviometer showed 70% volume expansion.


The dough was good, but I've come to like a little more salt. I'm still playing with the salt levels, and 2.9% is my normal. I've tried a couple at 2.8%, and this time I went down to 2.7%. Funny how such a minor adjustment seems to matter. The dough even felt a little weaker/more elastic than expected.

I found a piece of "well matured" guanciale in the back of my fridge and figured I had to use it before it got too mature. It was supposed to be cooked with a little mozzarella and blue cheese, then garnished with pomegranate seeds post bake, but I forgot and added everything upfront. It was still good, but I really prefer the contrast that I get when they are not cooked with the rest of the pie.

« Last Edit: May 26, 2020, 06:47:28 AM by Arne_Jervell »

Offline stefan

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Re: The Doughs of My Life
« Reply #816 on: May 26, 2020, 07:15:01 AM »
That looks delicious. I love the ‚red sprinkles‘ aka pomegranate on the pizza. What a beautiful contrast!

Offline Arne_Jervell

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Re: The Doughs of My Life
« Reply #817 on: May 26, 2020, 12:27:22 PM »
Thank you Stefan, the sweet crunch from cool pomegrenate seeds is really nice with the savory topping too. Just as long as I remember not to cook it.  ;D

Offline schold

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Re: The Doughs of My Life
« Reply #818 on: May 26, 2020, 02:40:03 PM »
Really beautiful.
Cooking is not a recipe, it's a philosophy - unless it's pastry, then it's chemistry.

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Offline sk

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Re: The Doughs of My Life
« Reply #819 on: May 27, 2020, 01:45:30 PM »
Very nice Arne!  The cheese is done perfectly!  Bravo!!
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