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Author Topic: The Doughs of My Life  (Read 33860 times)

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Offline Arne_Jervell

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Re: The Doughs of My Life
« Reply #80 on: July 10, 2018, 02:42:32 AM »


I'm curious to know what these famous places charge for a standard Margherita Napolitana - do they gouge the tourists, with a "secret" deal for locals?  I've seen ridiculous prices for MNs in big American cities, but was pleased that Prova in West Hollywood was US$12.75 for a 14" - considering their location's overhead that's not bad.

The places I visited had Margherita prices ranging from €4.00 to €6.50. There is no special price for tourists, everybody pays the same. :)

Offline JimInPT

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Re: The Doughs of My Life
« Reply #81 on: July 10, 2018, 10:09:20 AM »

The places I visited had Margherita prices ranging from €4.00 to €6.50. There is no special price for tourists, everybody pays the same. :)

Very nice pricing!  I think I could save enough money eating pizza there vs here to pay for the airfare.  And get great pizza in the bargain!   ;D

Offline Heikjo

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Re: The Doughs of My Life
« Reply #82 on: July 11, 2018, 08:57:29 AM »
What brand of tomatoes and cheese do you prefer? Something you buy locally?
-Heine. Mostly Neapolitan sourdough pizzas in an electric Effeuno P134H.

Offline Arne_Jervell

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Re: The Doughs of My Life
« Reply #83 on: July 11, 2018, 02:33:00 PM »
What brand of tomatoes and cheese do you prefer? Something you buy locally?

The cheese part is easy: Mozzarella di Bufala from Latbri (red bag 125 g, available at Coop Mega, Meny, Kolonial.no etc) is very good. Also the Fior Di Latte version (blue) is great when I want a leaner pizza.

Tomatoes: I have not settled on a clear favorite yet. I've tried all of the brands I can get hold of from grocery stores etc in Norway. "La Bella Napoli", which can be found at really great prices in Oslo, is tasty and inexpensive. La Valle Pomodori Pelati is also great, at a higher price. This year I have been expanding my search to include cans bought online. Some of my favorites this year are:
  • Gustarosso DOP San Marzano (really good)
  • Il Pomodoro Più Buono (fantastic and looks great, but a few too many really bad cans)
  • Fontanella DOP San Marzano
  • Cirio Pelati

As for basil (I know you didn't ask ;D ), I've been hunting for that rich basil flavor and aroma that I experienced at some of the best places in Naples. From kolonial.no I can buy some relatively big, robust and very fragrant leaves. Still, something is left to be desired.

Just a few weeks ago, the basil we've been growing in our garden seemed to be ready for consumption. I must admit I added this to the pizza a little reluctantly. The leaves were rather tough, and the raw taste was quite "sharp". Not sure how to explain it, perhaps slightly acidic or maybe a hint of cirtrus. Anyway, after cooking in the oven: Wow! The margherita suddenly was twice as good. I am in basil heaven.  :-D

If you have any other tips or favorites, please share!
« Last Edit: July 11, 2018, 05:43:46 PM by Arne_Jervell »

Offline Heikjo

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Re: The Doughs of My Life
« Reply #84 on: July 12, 2018, 08:41:12 AM »
Thanks. The red mozz is what I've used most by far, but recently I tried one from Rema 1000 that I like. They are 8-10 kroner less than the Latbri. I have tried mozzarella from some specialty shops in Oslo, but didn't find them better than Latbri. A photo of the Rema 1000 one here: https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=52374.msg530057#msg530057

I squeeze out quite a bit of liquid from the Latbri, but the ones from Rema 1000 doesn't hold as much.

I also like the La Bella tomatoes, and they are really cheap. I think I pay 7 kr on a local market. Im not sure if I've used the version you posted a picture of. I've used the choppes ones and chopped with basil. Will try the whole ones next. Do you just add some salt to them? The tomatoes in Naples were probably what stood most out to me, such exquisite combination of sweet and acidic. I had one pie without tomatoes and did regret it. I also had some with tomatoes that were more ordinary.

I've also bought the La Valle from Gutta på Haugen in Mathallen a few times, they are very good, but I've mostly used La Bella since they aren't cheaper and closer.

I haven't bought anything online yet, but maybe I'll try one of those you tried. I haven't found any other tomatoes in ordinary stores that I like.

Basil can be difficult, for sure. Some of the leaves they used in Napoli were huge and really tasteful, it can be tricky to find the right ones. I bought some seeds online which we've planted, but not used them too much yet. We also put too many in the pots and haven't moved them to a larger pot yet, so they are crowded and hasn't grown too well. They seem to have survived our weeks of vacation so far, but will need some careful when we get back. It's also been very hot all summer, and I'm not sure if they like the 30C degrees.

I wonder if it's possible to buy some basil seeds from Italy and plant them, or if the type they use needs the heat and sun down there.

I bought some plants from Plantasjen some years ago that I liked a lot. They were lively and grew well. I've wanted to get a light of some sort to keep more herbs during winter.

Interesting note on how the basil leaves tasted raw compared to after baking. I've usually added them post-bake, but I'll try adding before. Maybe even below some cheese, which some pies in Naples had (probably because they got jumbled during launch). I think my experience is them drying out without my six minute bake, but maybe it works better if they are a bit soaked in cheese and sauce.
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Offline amolapizza

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Re: The Doughs of My Life
« Reply #85 on: July 12, 2018, 09:43:26 AM »
I suppose you could just add the basil on top mid baking, so that they are only cooked for 1-2 minutes.
Jack

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Offline Arne_Jervell

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Re: The Doughs of My Life
« Reply #86 on: July 12, 2018, 01:45:53 PM »
Thanks. The red mozz is what I've used most by far, but recently I tried one from Rema 1000 that I like. They are 8-10 kroner less than the Latbri. I have tried mozzarella from some specialty shops in Oslo, but didn't find them better than Latbri. A photo of the Rema 1000 one here: https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=52374.msg530057#msg530057

I squeeze out quite a bit of liquid from the Latbri, but the ones from Rema 1000 doesn't hold as much.

I have never seen that Rema 1000 mozzarella, but I'll keep my eyes peeled.

The mozzarella from Latbri can be very moist indeed. To get around this, I usually slice open the bags in the morning, cut the cheese in two halves, put them in a colander, place the colander in a bowl, cover and let drain in the fridge untill an hour or two before baking. At that time, a lot of water has been collected in the bows. I discard this, cut the cheese and place it back in the colander to drain untill bake time. This way I never have a problem with too moist mozzarella.

I also like the La Bella tomatoes, and they are really cheap. I think I pay 7 kr on a local market. Im not sure if I've used the version you posted a picture of. I've used the choppes ones and chopped with basil. Will try the whole ones next. Do you just add some salt to them? The tomatoes in Naples were probably what stood most out to me, such exquisite combination of sweet and acidic. I had one pie without tomatoes and did regret it. I also had some with tomatoes that were more ordinary.

Yes, if the tomatoes seem lacking I will usually add add a pinch of salt. I agree with you that some of the sauces in Naples are crazy delicious. My trip there really got me into high gear in search for better tomatoes.

I bought some plants from Plantasjen some years ago that I liked a lot. They were lively and grew well. I've wanted to get a light of some sort to keep more herbs during winter.

Interesting note on how the basil leaves tasted raw compared to after baking. I've usually added them post-bake, but I'll try adding before. Maybe even below some cheese, which some pies in Naples had (probably because they got jumbled during launch). I think my experience is them drying out without my six minute bake, but maybe it works better if they are a bit soaked in cheese and sauce.

Our basil is grown from seeds purchased on Plantasjen.

Nailing the basil is tricky. My usual routine has been to add it on top pre bake. They turn ugly, so I've tried adding post bake. The pizza will look better, but I get very little basil flavor that way. Lately I've tried adding the basil before the cheese, which I actually like alot. The last three times I've gone overboard and added a small "blanket" of basil directly on top of the tomatoes.  ;D

Offline Arne_Jervell

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Re: The Doughs of My Life
« Reply #87 on: July 13, 2018, 04:05:03 AM »
Since the Santos mixer seems to be able to make a much stronger dough than I am used to, I decided to go nuts and attempt a 72% hydration dough:

High Hydration Attempt

100% Flour (Caputo Pizzeria)
72.0% Water (including water in starter)
2.8% Salt
4.7% SD (Ischia)

Fermentation: 22 hours (14+8) @ 21 °C

Actually, I made two doughs. Let’s call them... A and B.  :-D They were both identical except for the mixing time in the Santos: A was mixed for 4 ½ minutes, B was mixed for 6 minutes.

This was really fun, as both doughs turned out relatively manageable! That said, the A version was too slack for my preferences. It took a lot of effort to launch without mishaps (there were a few), and I was disappointed with the cornicione. I surmise that the gluten network was not sufficiently developed to keep the air trapped…? Anyway: The B dough was much better. It felt good, and although I accidentally did make a few "pizze al metro", the cornicione was better. And perhaps more importantly: we could eat all of the pizzas.

Besides, the crust on both A and B was very soft and tender. Perhaps the most tender crust I've done to date.

The next time I make dough this hydrated, I think I will actually try to include riposi in the workflow. I understand a little better now what Bill was talking about.

Low Hydration Escape

Working at 72% hydration was pretty exhausting to me, so yesterday I went back to my standard 65% dough. Let’s call it dough C.

100% Flour (Caputo Pizzeria)
65.0% Water (including water in starter)
2.8% Salt
3.2% SD (Ischia)

Fermentation: 22 hours (16+6) @ 22 °C

This was a small batch, so I made it with my good old Kenwood. This time, however, with the spiral hook, which I just recently received in the mail. The spiral hook works way better than the J-hook. With the "J", I need to work continuously with a spatula alongside the machine. With the spiral hook, that was not necessary at all. And it kneaded much more efficiently. It needed to run for just 6 minutes in total, compared to my typical 10 with the "J".

Resulting pizza was good, though there was something a little off. It almost seemed wetter than 65% during forming. It even stuck to the peel once. Furthermore, the cornicione seemed denser than usual for this kind of dough. Very strange. But decent pizza.

Perhaps a little more mixing next time...

Some pictures included below.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2018, 05:03:48 AM by Arne_Jervell »

Offline sub

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Re: The Doughs of My Life
« Reply #88 on: July 13, 2018, 05:49:35 AM »
Hi Arne,

I've enjoyed reading your thread, beautifull pies and a lot of passion !

For you next batch of pies, may I suggest you to try 1 hour autolyse instead of your riposo ?  (I always got a beautifull crumb this way )

Cheers

Offline Arne_Jervell

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Re: The Doughs of My Life
« Reply #89 on: July 13, 2018, 08:01:24 AM »


Hi Arne,

I've enjoyed reading your thread, beautifull pies and a lot of passion !

For you next batch of pies, may I suggest you to try 1 hour autolyse instead of your riposo ?  (I always got a beautifull crumb this way )

Cheers

Hi Sub,

Thank you! I love the suggestion. You mean for the wetter dough, right?

We are off on a small summer holiday now. I will try this as soon as I'm back. :)

Arne

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Offline Icelandr

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Re: The Doughs of My Life
« Reply #90 on: July 13, 2018, 05:05:46 PM »
Enjoy your holiday!


Once again a good read and very nice looking Pizza! I am intrigued with the last picture, labelled Scarpetta . . . . What is the topping placed post bake? Enquiring minds need to know!
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Offline Arne_Jervell

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Re: The Doughs of My Life
« Reply #91 on: July 14, 2018, 01:31:41 AM »


Enjoy your holiday!


Once again a good read and very nice looking Pizza! I am intrigued with the last picture, labelled Scarpetta . . . . What is the topping placed post bake? Enquiring minds need to know!

Thanks I will! Looking forward to some lazy days. :)

Yes, post bake, the Scarpetta is topped with tomato compote, parmigiano shavings and basil oil. Before it goes into the oven, I only add parmigiano cream and some mozzarella.

This is my attempt at recreating one of Franco Pepe's signature pizzas, which I had the Fortune of tasting in Caiazzo this spring. It was sublime! The contrasts in texture, temperature and taste is fantastic! My clear favorite from the trip to Naples.

I crave one just by writing this. Too bad I'm on an airplane waiting for takeoff...

Offline sub

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Re: The Doughs of My Life
« Reply #92 on: July 14, 2018, 02:00:13 AM »

Hi Sub,

Thank you! I love the suggestion. You mean for the wetter dough, right?


It works for both but the benefits are more visible on a lower hydration dough.

Offline mrmafix

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Re: The Doughs of My Life
« Reply #93 on: July 14, 2018, 04:20:09 PM »

Thanks I will! Looking forward to some lazy days. :)

Yes, post bake, the Scarpetta is topped with tomato compote, parmigiano shavings and basil oil. Before it goes into the oven, I only add parmigiano cream and some mozzarella.

This is my attempt at recreating one of Franco Pepe's signature pizzas, which I had the Fortune of tasting in Caiazzo this spring. It was sublime! The contrasts in texture, temperature and taste is fantastic! My clear favorite from the trip to Naples.

I crave one just by writing this. Too bad I'm on an airplane waiting for takeoff...

Tomato compote looks great!  Would you be willing to share your recipe for it?! 

Offline Arne_Jervell

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Re: The Doughs of My Life
« Reply #94 on: July 15, 2018, 08:16:42 AM »
Tomato compote looks great!  Would you be willing to share your recipe for it?!

Absolutely!

Ingredients for two pizzas:

Tomato compote:

- 350 g tomatoes
- 1/2 red onion
- 1 large clove of garlic
- 1/2 tbsp balsamic vinegar (I splurge and use the real stuff)
- 1/2 tsp tomato paste
- a few basil leaves
- EVOO
- salt and pepper

1. Skin the tomatoes. I do this by slicing an X in the skin, dump in boiling water for about 20 seconds and then immediately transfer to ice water. Skin then peels off with ease.
2. Finely chop the onion and garlic.
3. Add some olive oil in a frying pan, heat up and add the onion and garlic
4. Stir well until onion is soft
5. Add the balsamic vinegar, stir while cooking until no longer wet (only moist), about a minute or so
6. Add chopped tomatoes and tomato paste
7. Simmer for at least 40 minutes, stirring occasionally and "mashing" any large tomato chunks.
8. Finish by adding finely chopped basil leaves and salt+pepper to taste


Parmigiano Cream:

Make bechamel sauce with 10 g butter, 10 g 00-flour and 135 ml whole milk. After removing the sauce from the stove, add 50 grams of grated parmigiano and stir well.

To me, the parmigiano cream is definitely best when using aged Parmigiano (24 months or more). Pepe uses aged Grana but I am not able to source that here.

The cream can be a little stiff and so difficult to apply with a spoon. I have started using a piping bag. That works well.


Basil oil:

The pizza I got at Pepe's had some powdery basil added to it, perhaps it was freeze dried or something, I really don't know. What I found works for me is to chop some basil very finely, into almost a moist powder, and then stir this with some good EVOO. I then drizzle this over the top using a tea spoon.


The pizza:

Pre-bake: Add parmigiano cream and some mozzarella.
Post-bake: Cut pizza in 6 slices, apply a small spoon of tomato compote to each slice, top with shaved parmigiano and basil oil.

If you try it, you're in for a treat! Please let me know how it went. :-)


Some pictures below, more to follow soon...

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Offline Arne_Jervell

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Re: The Doughs of My Life
« Reply #95 on: July 15, 2018, 08:18:42 AM »
More pictures...

Offline Arne_Jervell

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Re: The Doughs of My Life
« Reply #96 on: July 15, 2018, 08:20:05 AM »
Even more pictures.

Offline Icelandr

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Re: The Doughs of My Life
« Reply #97 on: July 15, 2018, 10:09:11 AM »
Just WOW!
You do not do things by half’s! Not just helpful but incredibly so! I will be saving this for future reference.
Thank you so much for your time!


I have to worry a bit because of your thorough answers, - there could be many questions out there!
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Offline mrmafix

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Re: The Doughs of My Life
« Reply #98 on: July 15, 2018, 01:48:25 PM »
Even more pictures.

Thank you so much!

Offline Arne_Jervell

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Re: The Doughs of My Life
« Reply #99 on: July 15, 2018, 02:46:07 PM »
You are very welcome! I have taken a lot from all of you, it delights me to have something to offer in return.

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