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Author Topic: 2nd try sicilian - still too doughy  (Read 943 times)

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Offline Pie Charles

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2nd try sicilian - still too doughy
« on: August 05, 2018, 07:57:14 PM »
This was my 2nd try on sicilian. Looks pretty good from above but the dough is too doughy. It's not light/airy. and the middle isn't quite cooked through. It tasted doughy.
I tried to replicate Craig's Sicilian recipe. Here are my steps. Any help or tips you could offer would be great. thank you...

Using a 12 x 17 aluminum (standard) baking sheet.

Flour 907g KAAP
Water     64.0%
EVOO     2.0%
Salt        2.0%
L-DMP    1.0%
Sugar     1.0%
IDY        0.065%

Put yeast in warm water and mix thoroughly for 30 seconds
Add flour and other ingredients (mixed into flour) and yeast/water mixture to KA Mixer.
Mix for 4 minutes on low setting.
let sit for 10 minutes.
remove from bowl and put in a bowl with damp towel covering it. Let sit for 5 hours at room temp.
oil baking sheet and form dough into sheet and stretch to corners. let sit for 1.5 hours with damp towel covering it.
stretch again to corners.
sauce the dough and parbake at 350 for ~20 minutes. (dough was not sticking to sheet when taking it out)
remove from oven, add fresh mozz and WM mozz and a little more sauce.
bake in convection oven at 550F for 10 minutes. (couldnt go any longer as cheese was about to burn too much).

I'm considering using less flour so it's not so thick and maybe using a steel sheet. Any other thoughts? thank you.

Offline jsaras

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  • Location: Camarillo, CA
Re: 2nd try sicilian - still too doughy
« Reply #1 on: August 05, 2018, 09:05:18 PM »
This was my 2nd try on sicilian. Looks pretty good from above but the dough is too doughy. It's not light/airy. and the middle isn't quite cooked through. It tasted doughy.
I tried to replicate Craig's Sicilian recipe. Here are my steps. Any help or tips you could offer would be great. thank you...

Using a 12 x 17 aluminum (standard) baking sheet.

Flour 907g KAAP
Water     64.0%
EVOO     2.0%
Salt        2.0%
L-DMP    1.0%
Sugar     1.0%
IDY        0.065%

Put yeast in warm water and mix thoroughly for 30 seconds
Add flour and other ingredients (mixed into flour) and yeast/water mixture to KA Mixer.
Mix for 4 minutes on low setting.
let sit for 10 minutes.
remove from bowl and put in a bowl with damp towel covering it. Let sit for 5 hours at room temp.
oil baking sheet and form dough into sheet and stretch to corners. let sit for 1.5 hours with damp towel covering it.
stretch again to corners.
sauce the dough and parbake at 350 for ~20 minutes. (dough was not sticking to sheet when taking it out)
remove from oven, add fresh mozz and WM mozz and a little more sauce.
bake in convection oven at 550F for 10 minutes. (couldnt go any longer as cheese was about to burn too much).

I'm considering using less flour so it's not so thick and maybe using a steel sheet. Any other thoughts? thank you.

That looks like an exceptionally thick pizza, so less dough would be a good place to start.  Why did you use 350F to parbake.  Increasing the temperature to 475F or higher will give the dough more spring and you’ll definitely get a lighter texture. 

Another avenue to explore is hand mixing using the “pincher” method along with some stretch and folds.  These techniques get more air into the dough mass.

Finally, the total fermentation time to at least 8 hours (preferably 12-24 hours) will also improve the end result.

Things have never been more like today than they are right now.

Offline TXCraig1

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    • Craig's Neapolitan Garage
Re: 2nd try sicilian - still too doughy
« Reply #2 on: August 06, 2018, 08:26:52 AM »
I agree with Jonas that less dough would be better. The pan I use for 900g dough is 13x18 which is about 9% larger. I'd suggest trying 700g and going up (or down) from there based on the result. I also agree with that the 350 parbake is hurting you. I'd do the whole pie, with or without the par bake, at 550F.
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, baker's yeast when we must, but always great pizza."  
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Offline PizzaManic

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  • Location: South Africa
Re: 2nd try sicilian - still too doughy
« Reply #3 on: August 06, 2018, 10:08:44 AM »
Hi Pie Charles

May I ask why are you par baking?

My suggestion from personal experience with Detroit Style after many unsatisfactory attempts was to bake directly on a Baking Steel (Think mine is 1/2") preheated to 525F for around 10 minutes for a 8" X 8" pie. I found that Aluminium pans don't have enough mass to caramelize the crust in a way that a true Detroit pan does hence the baking steel will aid in this.

Here's a pic of my most recent attempt - it was delicious  :drool:

Take care and good luck  :)

Mo
Regards Mo

Offline Fiorot

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Re: 2nd try sicilian - still too doughy
« Reply #4 on: August 06, 2018, 12:31:50 PM »
I use the Pizza Bible L and B recipe with the starter called "the Brooklyn " and it is fantastic.  And you do par bake at 450.  69 percent hydration

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Offline Pie Charles

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  • Posts: 31
  • Location: Houston, Texas
Re: 2nd try sicilian - still too doughy
« Reply #5 on: August 08, 2018, 08:02:51 PM »
That looks like an exceptionally thick pizza, so less dough would be a good place to start.  Why did you use 350F to parbake.  Increasing the temperature to 475F or higher will give the dough more spring and you’ll definitely get a lighter texture. 

Another avenue to explore is hand mixing using the “pincher” method along with some stretch and folds.  These techniques get more air into the dough mass.

Finally, the total fermentation time to at least 8 hours (preferably 12-24 hours) will also improve the end result.

Thank you! Will definitely try this. Appreciate the advice.

Offline Pie Charles

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  • Posts: 31
  • Location: Houston, Texas
Re: 2nd try sicilian - still too doughy
« Reply #6 on: August 08, 2018, 08:03:26 PM »
I agree with Jonas that less dough would be better. The pan I use for 900g dough is 13x18 which is about 9% larger. I'd suggest trying 700g and going up (or down) from there based on the result. I also agree with that the 350 parbake is hurting you. I'd do the whole pie, with or without the par bake, at 550F.

Thanks for the response and advice, Craig!!!

Offline Pie Charles

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  • Posts: 31
  • Location: Houston, Texas
Re: 2nd try sicilian - still too doughy
« Reply #7 on: August 08, 2018, 08:04:47 PM »
Hi Pie Charles

May I ask why are you par baking?

My suggestion from personal experience with Detroit Style after many unsatisfactory attempts was to bake directly on a Baking Steel (Think mine is 1/2") preheated to 525F for around 10 minutes for a 8" X 8" pie. I found that Aluminium pans don't have enough mass to caramelize the crust in a way that a true Detroit pan does hence the baking steel will aid in this.

Here's a pic of my most recent attempt - it was delicious  :drool:

Take care and good luck  :)

Mo

Thanks Mo. I'm going to try other pans, not just aluminum. I have a detroit style pan already that i need to try out.

Offline Pie Charles

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  • Posts: 31
  • Location: Houston, Texas
Re: 2nd try sicilian - still too doughy
« Reply #8 on: August 08, 2018, 08:05:51 PM »
I use the Pizza Bible L and B recipe with the starter called "the Brooklyn " and it is fantastic.  And you do par bake at 450.  69 percent hydration

I have the Pizza Bible and have been meaning to try the L & B recipe. I'll move it up the list of priorities now that i hear a "fantastic" review. Thanks for the response!

Offline podein

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Re: 2nd try sicilian - still too doughy
« Reply #9 on: August 31, 2018, 07:51:57 PM »
Use a higher hydration dough without oil and a steel pan. For a 10X14

300g   Bread Flour
220g   Water
  8G    salt
   5g   yeast

Mix in a food processor for 15 seconds.

Pour 2 or 3 tablespoons of olive oil into a square steel pan and go from there.



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