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Offline Pod4477

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Pizza Hut Stuffed Crust Buffalo Chicken Pizza clone
« on: October 31, 2018, 02:20:57 AM »
One of my favorite pizzas over the years has been the Stuffed Crust Buffalo Chicken Pizza from Pizza Hut.  I remember a day when there were no fancy drizzles or crust flavors, but just the regular wonderful oil they put on their crusts.  It was a simpler time back in 2009 :-D. Now the only location is about an hour away, so I'm going to have to perfectly replicate this pizza.  I'm guessing I'm going to need a sugary buffalo sauce, some sugary Perdue Short Cuts chicken, a light and fluffy crust stuffed with salty string cheese, and oil below and on top of the crust.  Now do they brush the oil on the crust before or after it bakes, or both?  Butter Garlic spray is only mentioned once and in the Canadian list shown below.  Thank you! I understand almost all ingredients come in frozen too. 

I found two ingredient links of what I assume are both from the Canadian PH site.  One is: https://d3ixjveba7l33q.cloudfront.net/mobilem8-php/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/PH-Ingredient-Listings-English-June-2014.pdf and one is: https://www.pizzahut.ca/ingredients

However, the only info I can find for the U.S. version of the Stuffed Crust Buffalo Chicken Pizza from Pizza Hut is below:
INGREDIENTS:

Buffalo Drizzle: CORN SYRUP, DISTILLED VINEGAR, AGED RED PEPPERS, WATER, SALT, CONTAINS 2% OR LESS OF: SUGAR, VEGETABLE FIBER, XANTHAN GUM, NATURAL FLAVORS, SODIUM BENZOATE (PRESERVATIVE), OLEORESIN PAPRIKA, TITANIUM DIOXIDE.,

Buffalo Pizza Sauce: CORN SYRUP, DISTILLED VINEGAR, AGED RED PEPPERS, WATER, SALT, CONTAINS 2% OR LESS OF: SUGAR, VEGETABLE FIBER, XANTHAN GUM, NATURAL FLAVORS, SODIUM BENZOATE (PRESERVATIVE), OLEORESIN PAPRIKA, TITANIUM DIOXIDE.,

Cheese: MOZZARELLA CHEESE (PASTEURIZED MILK, CHEESE CULTURES, SALT, ENZYMES), MODIFIED FOOD STARCH, SUGAR CANE FIBER, POTASSIUM CHLORIDE, NATURAL FLAVORS, ASCORBIC ACID (TO PROTECT FLAVOR). CONTAINS: MILK,

Fresh Red Onions: RED ONIONS,

Grilled Chicken: CHICKEN WHITE MEAT, WATER, SEASONING (SALT, YEAST EXTRACT, SPICES, DRIED CANE SYRUP, DEXTROSE, CARRAGEENAN, DRIED CHICKEN BROTH, DRIED GARLIC, DRIED ONION, CHICKEN FAT, DRIED PARSLEY), MODIFIED FOOD STARCH, SODIUM PHOSPHATES.,

Original Stuffed Crust (Large): DOUGH: ENRICHED FLOUR (BLEACHED WHEAT FLOUR, MALTED BARLEY FLOUR, NIACIN, FERROUS SULFATE, THIAMINE MONONITRATE, RIBOFLAVIN, FOLIC ACID), WATER, YEAST, SOYBEAN OIL. CONTAINS 2% OR LESS OF: SALT, VITAL WHEAT GLUTEN, DATEM, SUGAR, ENZYMES, ASCORBIC ACID, SUCRALOSE. PAN OIL: SOYBEAN OIL, TBHQ ADDED TO PROTECT FRESHNESS. CHEESE: MOZZARELLA CHEESE (PASTEURIZED MILK, CHEESE CULTURES, SALT, POTASSIUM CHLORIDE, ENZYMES), MODIFIED FOOD STARCH, NONFAT MILK, FLAVORS.,

Sliced Banana Peppers: FRESH BANANA PEPPERS, VINEGAR, WATER, SALT, CONTAINS LESS THAN 2% OF LACTIC AND MALIC ACID, CALCIUM CHLORIDE, SODIUM BENOZOATE, POLYSORBATE 80, SODIUM METABISULFITE, TURMERIC EXTRACT.

I can omit the buffalo drizzle, banana peppers, and red onions as those have been added after 2009. 




From the links above (which seem to be from the Canadian PH site) I noticed little differences:

Stuffed Crust:
Water, Vegetable Oil, Classic Premix (Enriched Bleached Wheat Flour (Bleached Wheat Flour, Malted Barley Flour, Niacin, Ferrous Sulfate, Thiamine Mononitrate, Riboflavin, Folic Acid), Soybean Oil, Salt, Yeast), Pan Release (Soybean Oil, Lecithin, Propellant), Butter Garlic Spray (Corn Oil, Extra Virgin Olive Oil, Natural Butter Flavour, Natural Garlic Flavour, Beta Carotene (Color), Propellant), String Cheese Cheese: (Pasteurized Skimmed Milk, Bacterial Culture, Salt, Calcium Chloride, Microbial Enzyme), Modified Milk Ingredients, Water, Natural Flavour, Sodium Phosphates, Potassium Chloride, Salt, Potassium Sorbate.

Stuffed Crust: Water, Pan Dough Blend (Dry Yeast, Iodized Salt, Sugar, Rice Flour, Wheat Flour, Diacetyl Tartaric Acid Esters of Mono and Diglycerides, monoglycerides and diglycerides, soybean oil, sodium stearoyl-lactate, wheat gluten, enzymes and ascorbic acid), Vegetable Oil, Flour (Wheat Flour, Niacin, Iron, Thiamine Mononitrate, Riboflavin, Folic Acid), Pan Release (Soybean Oil, Lecithin, Propellant).

Then we have the oils:

Pan Release:   Soybean Oil, Lecithin, Propellant
Vegetable Oil:   Canola Oil or Soybean Oil, Dimethylpolysiloxane (Antifoaming Agent)
Canola/Olive Oil Blend:   Canola oil, olive oil.
Pan Release:   Soybean Oil, Lecithin, Propellant
Buttery Oil:   High Oleic Low Linolenic Canola Oil, Soya Lecithin, Artificial Flavour, Colour, TBHQ.
Olive Oil:   Olive oil

And finally we have the cheeses, which is different in the US listing (it never mentions string cheese but mozzarella as the crust stuffing instead), along with the skim milk being mentioned in the pizza mozzarella cheese in Canada:

Pizza Mozzarella Cheese:   Pasteurized Partly Skimmed Milk, Modified Milk Ingredients, Bacterial Culture, Salt, Calcium Chloride, Microbial Enzyme, Cellulose Powder.
String Cheese:   Cheese (Pasteurized Skimmed Milk, Bacterial Culture, Salt, Calcium Chloride, Microbial Enzyme), Modified Milk Ingredients, Water, Salt, Flavour, Sodium Phosphate, Potassium Chloride, Potassium Sorbate.

I want my crust to have the oil on top and to look like picture 2, but picture 1 is what the overall cheese sauce and chicken realistically will look like.  I'm going to go work on it, but any help would be appreciated.  I'm not sure what bakers percentages or methods I should use on the dough, but I'll probably follow the pan pizza recipes. I don't see powdered milk in the ingredients list for the dough.  Any ideas of what the default oil that is being used on stuffed crusts?
« Last Edit: October 31, 2018, 02:42:37 AM by Pod4477 »

Offline MadMatt

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Re: Pizza Hut Stuffed Crust Buffalo Chicken Pizza clone
« Reply #1 on: October 31, 2018, 06:51:56 AM »
I imagine something like 5-7% oil         and from what I've seen of Pizza Hut is they use a sheeter to the dough even thickness and part way to size,  then finish stretching by hand. The dough is dense not airy because of this. Using a rolling pin should be fine. Even thickness, don't form a rim as the rim is created by folding over the cheese sticks.   


If I make one which I have been thinking about for ages I'd start with something like 55% water 5% oil see how that works then move up if I need to.


I'd make mine into a cheesy bites which to my knowledge is the same as stuffed crust except they cut the end into segments and twist.  They make a load of these in advance as its time consuming so I imagine some can be slightly proved than others.  Mine have always been super dense no air.   


Thickness factor is what I can't figure out  either as you have to take into consideration  the extra dough needed to fold it over the cheese sticks.

As I've only made a few thickness factor pizza's which are  0.085, 0.09,  0.1  and 0.136 from memory.   I'd say a 0.1 thickness factor is adequate but that doesn't take into consideration the extra dough needed for the stuffed crust.   ???

Here's a hot dog stuffed crust slice from Canada Pizza Hut that gives a better idea of thickness.   I think what we have in the UK is similar to this, if not thinner..            I have watched a few reviews of Pizza Hut's cheesy bites from American
 (Not Canadian) youtubers and they look to be the same as ours. One reviewer complained that the pizza is too thin.




Comparing Dominos UK stuffed crust to Pizza Huts there's a huge difference. Dominos  is clearly  more hand stretched,  you often get misshapen pizza's and absolutely massive crusts but a paper thin pizza.
Pizza Hut's look like they came out of a factory.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2018, 06:54:30 AM by MadMatt »

Offline Pod4477

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Re: Pizza Hut Stuffed Crust Buffalo Chicken Pizza clone
« Reply #2 on: October 31, 2018, 12:31:40 PM »
I imagine something like 5-7% oil         and from what I've seen of Pizza Hut is they use a sheeter to the dough even thickness and part way to size,  then finish stretching by hand. The dough is dense not airy because of this. Using a rolling pin should be fine. Even thickness, don't form a rim as the rim is created by folding over the cheese sticks.   


If I make one which I have been thinking about for ages I'd start with something like 55% water 5% oil see how that works then move up if I need to.


I'd make mine into a cheesy bites which to my knowledge is the same as stuffed crust except they cut the end into segments and twist.  They make a load of these in advance as its time consuming so I imagine some can be slightly proved than others.  Mine have always been super dense no air.   


Thickness factor is what I can't figure out  either as you have to take into consideration  the extra dough needed to fold it over the cheese sticks.

As I've only made a few thickness factor pizza's which are  0.085, 0.09,  0.1  and 0.136 from memory.   I'd say a 0.1 thickness factor is adequate but that doesn't take into consideration the extra dough needed for the stuffed crust.   ???

Here's a hot dog stuffed crust slice from Canada Pizza Hut that gives a better idea of thickness.   I think what we have in the UK is similar to this, if not thinner..            I have watched a few reviews of Pizza Hut's cheesy bites from American
 (Not Canadian) youtubers and they look to be the same as ours. One reviewer complained that the pizza is too thin.




Comparing Dominos UK stuffed crust to Pizza Huts there's a huge difference. Dominos  is clearly  more hand stretched,  you often get misshapen pizza's and absolutely massive crusts but a paper thin pizza.
Pizza Hut's look like they came out of a factory.

Thank you!  Thickness factor will be a bit tough for this pizza and Pizza Hut definitely does look like it comes from a factory.  55% with 5% oil is a good start, thank you. Also good tip about rolling it out and then folding the dough over the cheese. Cheesy bites is a good idea! I saw the hot dog stuffed crust last night on a google search. Perfect side pic for thickness reference, thank you again! So from what I gather, they have a pan spray and a finishing butter oil. I noticed my local PH didnít use the finishing butter oil a couple of times. How do they get the crust so shiny in my second pic? Do you think thatís from oil on before the bake? My dominos puts oil on after but it never looks shiny.

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pizza Hut Stuffed Crust Buffalo Chicken Pizza clone
« Reply #3 on: October 31, 2018, 02:44:28 PM »
Pod4477,

In the early days, going back decades, Pizza Hut (PH) used fresh doughs to make their pizzas. They subsequently went to frozen doughs for most of their pizzas. That is when many of the chemicals you cited started to be used. To give you a sense of history on the PH doughs, take a look at the following documents that I retrieved from the Wayback Machine or other relevant sources:

July 29, 2004: https://web.archive.org/web/20050527010747/http://www.espanol.pizzahut.com/menu/nutritioninfo/documents/ph_ingredients.pdf

Canada, August, 2004: https://web.archive.org/web/20090920202302/http://www.redberryweb.com/pdf/ingredients.pdf

October 19, 2006: https://web.archive.org/web/20071022074747/http://www.pizzahut.com/Files/PDF/ph_ingredients.pdf

September 1, 2008: https://web.archive.org/web/20100602083641/http://www.pizzahut.com/Files/PDF/PIZZA%20HUT%20INGREDIENT%20STATEMENTS%20September%202008.pdf

October 7, 2009: https://web.archive.org/web/20091007014131/http://www.pizzahut.com:80/Files/pdf/Nutrition%20Request%20Form%20SCP.pdf

2010: https://web.archive.org/web/20100601230603/http://www.pizzahut.com:80/Files/PDF/PH&WSNationalBrochure4.13.10.pdf

Canada, August, 2010: https://web.archive.org/web/20120504040216/http://pizzahut.ca/Fileupload/ingredients.pdf

June, 2014: https://d3ixjveba7l33q.cloudfront.net/mobilem8-php/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/PH-Ingredient-Listings-English-June-2014.pdf

November, 2014: https://web.archive.org/web/20141125061135/http://www.pizzahut.com/assets/w/nutrition/BrandStandardNutritionalInformationFINAL111314.pdf

UK, 2017: https://www.pizzahut.co.uk/restaurants/r/SysSiteAssets/food/menu/nutrition/2017_remodel_nutritional_booklet.pdf/

UK, April, 2017: https://www.pizzahut.co.uk/order/images/Ingredients-Allegens.cb47c103daa9658f78dde7a8ca93afe0.pdf

UK, August, 2018: https://www.pizzahut.co.uk/restaurants/r/SysSiteAssets/rebrand/food/nutritionalinformation/pzh3084_8828_nutritional_booklet_210x297_ra_v2.pdf/

What you will see from the above PH documents, including a few from Canada, is that PH went from using fresh doughs to frozen doughs. And it published the relevant ingredients statements. It also provided nutrition information, as noted in a couple of the above documents, even though the FDA rules and regulations do not require that information (or ingredients statements either). In recent years, PH has gone to an outfit called Nutritionix that provides the nutrition information for PH (and for hundreds of other companies in the food business), as well as ingredients statements. See, for example:

https://m.nutritionix.com/pizza-hut/menu/premium/

I should also mention that in some countries outside of the US, PH stores may still make fresh dough but no doubt PH has been moving in the direction of frozen doughs loaded with chemicals in those countries also. I believe that PH has been using frozen dough since at least 2006 based on the above referenced documents (but earlier--as early as 2004--in Canada). That conclusion is based on where the yeast appears in the PH ingredients statements.

What I would like you to look at in particular is the 2004 documents. More particularly, note in the US 2004 document that there is a reference to string cheese in a stuffed crust under the heading Pan Dough. That suggests that PH may have used their Pan Dough for a stuffed crust. You will also note the Stuffed Crust fresh dough that was used in Canada in about 2004. And also the one in 2017 in the UK (you might also get a kick out of this UK piece: https://gizmodo.com/5899852/i-cant-believe-this-hot-dog-stuffed-crust-pizza-isnt-american). In the October 2009 document, you can see the nutrition information for a stuffed crust pizza.

I presented the above information in case you would like to try to replicate one of the early stuffed crust doughs that PH used or maybe the one cited in the 2017 UK document. Obviously, you are not going to be able to use all of the chemicals and additives and conditioners that PH now uses in most places, or to find natural equivalents to those items. By looking at the simpler dough formulations, you may also get a better feel for the ingredients and the related baker's percents to use. You will also find ingredients statements in the above documents for pizza sauces, cheeses, and so on.

If you'd like, you can also do an Advanced forum search using the search terms "Pizza Hut pdf Peter" (without the quotes) and my user name Pete-zza. Over the years, I tracked what PH was doing and wrote many posts about them. I also discussed several of the ingredients used by PH--for example, sucrose and dairy whey and other milk ingredients.

Peter

Offline Pod4477

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Re: Pizza Hut Stuffed Crust Buffalo Chicken Pizza clone
« Reply #4 on: November 01, 2018, 12:55:52 PM »
Pod4477,

In the early days, going back decades, Pizza Hut (PH) used fresh doughs to make their pizzas. They subsequently went to frozen doughs for most of their pizzas. That is when many of the chemicals you cited started to be used. To give you a sense of history on the PH doughs, take a look at the following documents that I retrieved from the Wayback Machine or other relevant sources:

July 29, 2004: https://web.archive.org/web/20050527010747/http://www.espanol.pizzahut.com/menu/nutritioninfo/documents/ph_ingredients.pdf

Canada, August, 2004: https://web.archive.org/web/20090920202302/http://www.redberryweb.com/pdf/ingredients.pdf

October 19, 2006: https://web.archive.org/web/20071022074747/http://www.pizzahut.com/Files/PDF/ph_ingredients.pdf

September 1, 2008: https://web.archive.org/web/20100602083641/http://www.pizzahut.com/Files/PDF/PIZZA%20HUT%20INGREDIENT%20STATEMENTS%20September%202008.pdf

October 7, 2009: https://web.archive.org/web/20091007014131/http://www.pizzahut.com:80/Files/pdf/Nutrition%20Request%20Form%20SCP.pdf

2010: https://web.archive.org/web/20100601230603/http://www.pizzahut.com:80/Files/PDF/PH&WSNationalBrochure4.13.10.pdf

Canada, August, 2010: https://web.archive.org/web/20120504040216/http://pizzahut.ca/Fileupload/ingredients.pdf

June, 2014: https://d3ixjveba7l33q.cloudfront.net/mobilem8-php/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/PH-Ingredient-Listings-English-June-2014.pdf

November, 2014: https://web.archive.org/web/20141125061135/http://www.pizzahut.com/assets/w/nutrition/BrandStandardNutritionalInformationFINAL111314.pdf

UK, 2017: https://www.pizzahut.co.uk/restaurants/r/SysSiteAssets/food/menu/nutrition/2017_remodel_nutritional_booklet.pdf/

UK, April, 2017: https://www.pizzahut.co.uk/order/images/Ingredients-Allegens.cb47c103daa9658f78dde7a8ca93afe0.pdf

What you will see from the above PH documents, including a few from Canada, is that PH went from using fresh doughs to frozen doughs. And it published the relevant ingredients statements. It also provided nutrition information, as noted in a couple of the above documents, even though the FDA rules and regulations do not require that information (or ingredients statements either). In recent years, PH has gone to an outfit called Nutritionix that provides the nutrition information for PH (and for hundreds of other companies in the food business), as well as ingredients statements. See, for example:

https://m.nutritionix.com/pizza-hut/menu/premium/

I should also mention that in some countries outside of the US, PH stores may still make fresh dough but no doubt PH has been moving in the direction of frozen doughs loaded with chemicals in those countries also. I believe that PH has been using frozen dough since at least 2006 based on the above referenced documents. That conclusion is based on where the yeast appears in the PH ingredients statements.

What I would like you to look at in particular is the 2004 documents. More particularly, note in the US 2004 document that there is a reference to string cheese in a stuffed crust under the heading Pan Dough. That suggests that PH may have used their Pan Dough for a stuffed crust. You will also note the Stuffed Crust fresh dough that was used in Canada in about 2004. And also the one in 2017 in the UK (you might also get a kick out of this UK piece: https://gizmodo.com/5899852/i-cant-believe-this-hot-dog-stuffed-crust-pizza-isnt-american). In the October 2009 document, you can see the nutrition information for a stuffed crust pizza.

I presented the above information in case you would like to try to replicate one of the early stuffed crust doughs that PH used or maybe the one cited in the 2017 UK document. Obviously, you are not going to be able to use all of the chemicals and additives and conditioners that PH now uses in most places, or to find natural equivalents to those items. By looking at the simpler dough formulations, you may also get a better feel for the ingredients and the related baker's percents to use. You will also find ingredients statements in the above documents for pizza sauces, cheeses, and so on.

If you'd like, you can also do an Advanced forum search using the search terms "Pizza Hut pdf Peter" (without the quotes) and my user name Pete-zza. Over the years, I tracked what PH was doing and wrote many posts about them. I also discussed several of the ingredients used by PH--for example, sucrose and dairy whey and other milk ingredients.

Peter

Thank you again Peter! These documents are awesome and that pan dough from 2004 may be the best way to replicate it.  I saw the milk ingredients you mentioned in the 2004 documents, but it seems to be missing from the nutrition facts of the buffalo chicken stuffed crust I posted in the first post.  Do you think they still use milk ingredients and don't list it anymore, or do you think they aren't using them?  I always use powdered milk in my Jimmy John's Bread clone, and it does remind me of PH crust, so I'm guessing I should be using powdered milk.

Also I'm thinking how I'm going to replicate the oil.  From what I gather, they put oil on the pan (much like I did when I took an UNO class) and then reading the posts on here from the man who worked at PH, they spray oil on the dough before it's proofed, and then I believe again.  This seems to be key to the look of their crust, along with the ingredients in the dough.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2018, 12:58:35 PM by Pod4477 »

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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pizza Hut Stuffed Crust Buffalo Chicken Pizza clone
« Reply #5 on: November 01, 2018, 02:42:44 PM »
Pod4477,

It appears that PH is not currently using nonfat milk in its large stuffed crust, at least in the US. To confirm that, I went to the Nutritionix page that I cited in my last post and scrolled down to the stuffed crust ingredients list, at:

https://m.nutritionix.com/pizza-hut/buffalo-chicken-large-original-stuffed-crust-slice/?show

You will see that there is no nonfat milk listed in the ingredients. However, in the 2004 Canadian pdf document (https://web.archive.org/web/20090920202302/http://www.redberryweb.com/pdf/ingredients.pdf), a dairy blend was used. That blend was also noted in the US 2004 pdf document (https://web.archive.org/web/20050527010747/http://www.espanol.pizzahut.com/menu/nutritioninfo/documents/ph_ingredients.pdf).

Apropo of what you are considering of doing, maybe you have already seen my post where I modified the PH style pan pizza dough recipe that was posted on the forum's recipe page at https://www.pizzamaking.com/panpizza.php. My modified version and the reason for the modification can be seen at Reply 6 at:

https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=4607.msg38909#msg38909

I cannot say whether my modified version of the PH style dough formulation is an accurate or correct one inasmuch as the original recipe was not tied to a particular PH ingredients statement such as given in my last post. You can give that formulation a try or, if you prefer, try to come up with a PH clone dough formulation based on one of the pdf documents I cited in my last post. I think the US and Canadian 2004 ingredients statements would be a good place to start. However, I would substitute sugar in place of fructose or high fructose corn syrup or corn syrup solids. At least the doughs would be fresh and not loaded with chemical additives, conditioners and preservatives. On the other hand, if you like the current PH stuffed crust pizzas, the reason may be because of those added items :-D. That said, I think it is possible to use the current PH stuffed crust ingredients statement and weed out all of the additives and other such ingredients to come up with a clone dough formulation.

As an aside, you will note that in the pdf documents I cited in my last post the water was not always indicated in the ingredients statements. In some cases, I think it was just an innocent omission, but often when premixes are used the ingredients statements do not recite the water. But, in all cases, the water follows the flour in such statements in terms of baker's percent. I also noted a typo in the 2004 US pdf document, in the Pan Dough ingredients statement. In addition to leaving out the water, the expression "nonfat mild" should be "nonfat milk". I didn't want you to spend your time Googling nonfat mild ;D. Also, if you elect to use a dairy blend, I once looked into a source and found one but it was for a 50-lb bag. But you can get an idea as to the components of such a blend at Reply 1 at:

https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=8791.msg76201#msg76201

It is possible for you to create your own dairy blend. If you look at the other pdf documents after 2004, you will see that PH used whey in the dough in 2006 (https://web.archive.org/web/20071022074747/http://www.pizzahut.com/Files/PDF/ph_ingredients.pdf), and then went without any dairy products in the dough, apparently for many years thereafter. But in 2017, they again went with whey powder in the UK. So, they have been all over the place.

Finally, is there a particular size pizza you have in mind?

Peter

Offline Pod4477

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Re: Pizza Hut Stuffed Crust Buffalo Chicken Pizza clone
« Reply #6 on: November 01, 2018, 08:02:04 PM »
Pod4477,

It appears that PH is not currently using nonfat milk in its large stuffed crust, at least in the US. To confirm that, I went to the Nutritionix page that I cited in my last post and scrolled down to the stuffed crust ingredients list, at:

https://m.nutritionix.com/pizza-hut/buffalo-chicken-large-original-stuffed-crust-slice/?show

You will see that there is no nonfat milk listed in the ingredients. However, in the 2004 Canadian pdf document (https://web.archive.org/web/20090920202302/http://www.redberryweb.com/pdf/ingredients.pdf), a dairy blend was used. That blend was also noted in the US 2004 pdf document (https://web.archive.org/web/20050527010747/http://www.espanol.pizzahut.com/menu/nutritioninfo/documents/ph_ingredients.pdf).

Apropo of what you are considering of doing, maybe you have already seen my post where I modified the PH style pan pizza dough recipe that was posted on the forum's recipe page at https://www.pizzamaking.com/panpizza.php. My modified version and the reason for the modification can be seen at Reply 6 at:

https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=4607.msg38909#msg38909

I cannot say whether my modified version of the PH style dough formulation is an accurate or correct one inasmuch as the original recipe was not tied to a particular PH ingredients statement such as given in my last post. You can give that formulation a try or, if you prefer, try to come up with a PH clone dough formulation based on one of the pdf documents I cited in my last post. I think the US and Canadian 2004 ingredients statements would be a good place to start. However, I would substitute sugar in place of fructose or high fructose corn syrup or corn syrup solids. At least the doughs would be fresh and not loaded with chemical additives, conditioners and preservatives. On the other hand, if you like the current PH stuffed crust pizzas, the reason may be because of those added items :-D. That said, I think it is possible to use the current PH stuffed crust ingredients statement and weed out all of the additives and other such ingredients to come up with a clone dough formulation.

As an aside, you will note that in the pdf documents I cited in my last post the water was not always indicated in the ingredients statements. In some cases, I think it was just an innocent omission, but often when premixes are used the ingredients statements do not recite the water. But, in all cases, the water follows the flour in such statements in terms of baker's percent. I also noted a typo in the 2004 US pdf document, in the Pan Dough ingredients statement. In addition to leaving out the water, the expression "nonfat mild" should be "nonfat milk". I didn't want you to spend your time Googling nonfat mild ;D. Also, if you elect to use a dairy blend, I once looked into a source and found one but it was for a 50-lb bag. But you can get an idea as to the components of such a blend at Reply 1 at:

https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=8791.msg76201#msg76201

It is possible for you to create your own dairy blend. If you look at the other pdf documents after 2004, you will see that PH used whey in the dough in 2006 (https://web.archive.org/web/20071022074747/http://www.pizzahut.com/Files/PDF/ph_ingredients.pdf), and then went without any dairy products in the dough, apparently for many years thereafter. But in 2017, they again went with whey powder in the UK. So, they have been all over the place.

Finally, is there a particular size pizza you have in mind?

Peter

Thanks Peter! I love having bakers percentages, so I really appreciate you linking your recipe!  I'm going to try it, and it doesn't seem much different than the PR recipe :P  I will use regular sugar, but I do wonder if the high fructose corn syrup is what I like.  I often prefer regular Coca Cola compared to the real sugar versions. I'm so used to the high fructose corn syrup.  I suspect the reason I like their buffalo sauce is because it's mainly sugar ;D So I have some Stop & Shop dry milk, but how do I know if it's bakers grade?  Very good info that you posted about that, which I never knew about.  Should I be boiling it?  Also, I'm thinking of making it fit the sizes I have for my pans which are 11" and 16".

For me, I find the Stuffed Crust Buffalo Chicken needs 3 things:
1.  Oily crust stuffed with salty cheese (I assume from being brushed with oil before and after cooking)
2.  Sugary buffalo sauce
3.  The crust should also be very bread-like and commercial tasting (guessing because it's frozen and chemicals added)
4.  Blue Cheese to dip the stuffed crust into  :D

Do you think the 4 hours cold ferment in the pan or 24 hours would be better?
« Last Edit: November 01, 2018, 08:09:41 PM by Pod4477 »

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pizza Hut Stuffed Crust Buffalo Chicken Pizza clone
« Reply #7 on: November 01, 2018, 08:53:30 PM »
Pod4477,

My recollection is that all of the Carnation dry non-fat milk powders at my local supermarket were of the instant variety. But my recollection is that I found a non-instant dry milk powder in one of the markets that I shop at that caters to a Hispanic clientele. However, I don't recall the brand offhand. If I can find the post where I mentioned the name, I will let you know.

Since you mentioned the Stop & Shop, is this the product you have?:

https://www.instacart.com/stop-shop/products/3191695-giant-brand-instant-nonfat-dry-milk-3-2-oz

I suspect that you will have a hard time finding a non-instant dry milk powder at the supermarket, and I seriously doubt that you will find a baker's grade dry non-fat milk at the supermarket level. But there are several places online where baker's grade dry non-fat milk can be purchased (more on this below). But, for now, to avoid going that route, you can read Tom Lehmann's advice on how to treat the supermarket type of dry non-fat milk, at:

Reply 6 at https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=3257.msg27655;topicseen#msg27655

For the record, if you decide at any point that you would like to try a baker's grade dry non-fat milk product, there are some sources mentioned in this post:

Reply 193 at https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=12173.msg119961;topicseen#msg119961.

With respect to your question about using a 4-hr versus a 24-hour cold fermentation, a former manager at PH said that he used the 24-hour period. You may already have seen the thread he started at:

https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=213.msg1498#msg1498

That is a thread that you may want to review.

On the changes you would like to make to have the dough fit your size pans, let me play around with the numbers to see if there is a way of going from the dough ball weights for the 14" and 12" pans to the sizes of pans you want to use.

Peter

Offline Pod4477

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Re: Pizza Hut Stuffed Crust Buffalo Chicken Pizza clone
« Reply #8 on: November 01, 2018, 09:01:52 PM »
Pod4477,

My recollection is that all of the Carnation dry non-fat milk powders at my local supermarket were of the instant variety. But my recollection is that I found a non-instant dry milk powder in one of the markets that I shop at that caters to a Hispanic clientele. However, I don't recall the brand offhand. If I can find the post where I mentioned the name, I will let you know.

Since you mentioned the Stop & Shop, is this the product you have?:

https://www.instacart.com/stop-shop/products/3191695-giant-brand-instant-nonfat-dry-milk-3-2-oz

I suspect that you will have a hard time finding a non-instant dry milk powder at the supermarket, and I seriously doubt that you will find a baker's grade dry non-fat milk at the supermarket level. But there are several places online where baker's grade dry non-fat milk can be purchased (more on this below). But, for now, to avoid going that route, you can read Tom Lehmann's advice on how to treat the supermarket type of dry non-fat milk, at:

Reply 6 at https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=3257.msg27655;topicseen#msg27655

For the record, if you decide at any point that you would like to try a baker's grade dry non-fat milk product, there are some sources mentioned in this post:

Reply 193 at https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=12173.msg119961;topicseen#msg119961.

With respect to your question about using a 4-hr versus a 24-hour cold fermentation, a former manager at PH said that he used the 24-hour period. You may already have seen the thread he started at:

https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=213.msg1498#msg1498

That is a thread that you may want to review.

On the changes you would like to make to have the dough fit your size pans, let me play around with the numbers to see if there is a way of going from the dough ball weights for the 14" and 12" pans to the sizes of pans you want to use.

Peter

Thank you so much! So using Instant non-fat dry milk is usually not a good idea because the whey protein in the powder has a dough softening effect?  I am a fan of using dry milk in bread doughs so I should have figured they used it.  Thank you for helping with dough ball weights.  11" is an odd number for a pan size.

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pizza Hut Stuffed Crust Buffalo Chicken Pizza clone
« Reply #9 on: November 01, 2018, 09:11:05 PM »
Thank you so much! So using Instant non-fat dry milk is usually not a good idea because the whey protein in the powder has a dough softening effect?  I am a fan of using dry milk in bread doughs so I should have figured they used it.  Thank you for helping with dough ball weights.  11" is an odd number for a pan size.
Pod4477,

I once had an exchange with another member, dms, who basically said not to worry about following Tom's advice as noted in my earlier post, on the basis that the dough batch size would be small. You can read the exchange in the three posts starting at Reply 9 at https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=5609.msg47756#msg47756.

After digging into my brain after my last post, I remembered the brand of dry milk powder that I saw in my local supermarket that caters to Hispanics. It is a Nestle product called NIDO:

https://www.nestlenido.com/en/products/nido-fortificada

The NIDO product is a whole milk product and I do not believe that it is an instant type of product.

Peter


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Offline Pod4477

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Re: Pizza Hut Stuffed Crust Buffalo Chicken Pizza clone
« Reply #10 on: November 01, 2018, 09:23:31 PM »
Pod4477,

I once had an exchange with another member, dms, who basically said not to worry about following Tom's advice as noted in my earlier post, on the basis that the dough batch size would be small. You can read the exchange in the three posts starting at Reply 9 at https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=5609.msg47756#msg47756.

After digging into my brain after my last post, I remembered the brand of dry milk powder that I saw in my local supermarket that caters to Hispanics. It is a Nestle product called NIDO:

https://www.nestlenido.com/en/products/nido-fortificada

The NIDO product is a whole milk product and I do not believe that it is an instant type of product.

Peter

Thank you.  That's interesting.  So when using small amounts of dry milk, scalding may not be needed?

I may have seen NIDO actually as we have a lot of hispanic products here in MA.

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pizza Hut Stuffed Crust Buffalo Chicken Pizza clone
« Reply #11 on: November 01, 2018, 09:34:45 PM »
Thank you.  That's interesting.  So when using small amounts of dry milk, scalding may not be needed?

Pod4477,

That is my understanding, and is what I would try. If you end up liking the product, that is all that counts. And you can always decide later to try a baker's grade product if you want to get a bit closer to what PH does.

Peter

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Re: Pizza Hut Stuffed Crust Buffalo Chicken Pizza clone
« Reply #12 on: November 01, 2018, 09:40:27 PM »
Pod4477,

That is my understanding, and is what I would try. If you end up liking the product, that is all that counts. And you can always decide later to try a baker's grade product if you want to get a bit closer to what PH does.

Peter

Thank you for the advice! You're so right.  Do you know the process of how they apply the oil?  Reading some of the posts it seems like it should be sprayed on the pan, on the dough as it proofs, and on the dough again before it bakes, and maybe again after it bakes.  I was a bit confused about this.  It seems that the butter/butter garlic oil is spread after baking, but I never taste garlic on the buffalo chicken pizza, so I wonder if it's just butter oil spread on that pizza after its cooked.  I'd love to replicate the look of picture 2 in my first post.  Smooth and shiny.

Also, picture 2 is how I remembered it years ago.  Perfectly shine and a high rim.  Picture 1 is how I seem to get them these days, with no shine and flat rim.  Picture 1 almost looks like Regina, so I wonder if any oil was even used before or after baking.  I've noticed sometimes they are not sealing the rims properly, and therefor cheese is leaking out.  Maybe that is why the rims can be flatter sometimes.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2018, 09:51:19 PM by Pod4477 »

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pizza Hut Stuffed Crust Buffalo Chicken Pizza clone
« Reply #13 on: November 01, 2018, 10:18:05 PM »
Pod4477,

With respect to the way the oil is used, have you seen this thread?:

https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=4067.msg33930#msg33930.

I think you may also want to read this thread:

https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=25862.msg260623#msg260623,

and also this post about the use of a cheese sauce ring, at

Reply 2 at https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=39681.msg396364#msg396364

For your additional information, I double checked the pdf documents I cited in my original post to see if PH ever used only dry non-fat milk. I saw no evidence of that. I suspect that the PH store workers did not know exactly what was in the PH dough (the dairy blend) and most likely were told that it was a dry milk powder without further detail.

Peter

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Re: Pizza Hut Stuffed Crust Buffalo Chicken Pizza clone
« Reply #14 on: November 02, 2018, 11:20:30 AM »
Pod4477,

On the matter of dough ball weights to use with your pan sizes, I started by going back to the post where a former PH employee gave the dough ball weights for the PH 12" and 14" pans. That post is at Reply 5 at:

https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=4067.msg33990#msg33990

As you can see, the two dough ball weights are 22 ounces (14" pan) and 16 ounces (12" pan). The corresponding thickness factors for the 14" and 12" pan sizes are 0.14292 and 0.14147, respectively. The reason for the difference is because one or the other of the dough ball weights was rounded to a whole number, which is a common practice when there are many pizza sizes. There can also be minor variations at the commissary level where dough ball rounders are used. I don't really think it matters which thickness factor number you use because the differences will be slight. But to simplify matters, you might use the average of the two numbers. That comes to 0.142195. On that basis, the dough ball weight for your 11" pan comes to 3.14159 x 5.5 x 5.5 x 0.142195 = 13.51 ounces, or about 383 grams. For your 16" pan, the dough ball weight comes to 3.14159 x 8 x 8 x 0.142195 = 28.6 ounces, or 810.5 grams (811 grams if rounded).

For purposes of the dough calculating tool, you can use either the thickness factor 0.142195 or the dough weight option, in either ounces or grams.

I do not believe that the procedure outlined in Reply 5 as referenced above will work for what you want to do. But perhaps this video--which is based on a 22-ounce dough ball and a 16" pan--will help:



Peter

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Re: Pizza Hut Stuffed Crust Buffalo Chicken Pizza clone
« Reply #15 on: November 02, 2018, 04:17:29 PM »
Here's a cheesy bites being made if anyone's interested    but if you make one I recommend being careful not to damage the pan when cutting the edge.








Awhile back I bought I an anodized pan all the way from China on ebay. Apart from the darkening by use, it looks the same to me as in the videos (the amount of holes varies depending on size of pan)     After awhile searching I  actually found the pan I bought on a Chinese manufacturer website that had the Pizza Hut logo stamped on the back.   I thought maybe  Pizza Hut  in China used Chinese made pan but perhaps they use Chinese made pans elsewhere too? or the pans simply look the same but are made in different countries.



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Re: Pizza Hut Stuffed Crust Buffalo Chicken Pizza clone
« Reply #16 on: November 02, 2018, 05:22:06 PM »
Thank you Peter!  The threads you posted brought back memories of getting PH and then telling me they used spray oil on the pizza. The white and green cans are what brought back the memory. I wonder if it was garlic oil or just butter flavored oil. This was definitely key and something Iíll ask for every time I go to PH. Iíll try and replicate that for myself too. Thank you for doing the calculations Peter! I really appreciate it. I wasnít sure what dough ball weights to use at first. Also, thank you Peter and MadMatt for the videos. Amazing how they use their thumbs to close the dough and smooth it out with their palms. Thatís why it always looks so perfectly done. Now, do you think the perforated pan is better than some of my UNO type pans? Iím also going to get a dough docker and the chicken seems to have the exact same calories as the Perdue Short Cuts Grilled Chicken, so Iím going to try that.

I apologize Peter,
My pan sizes are actually 7Ē, 10Ē, 14Ē. I did some better measurements today and for some reason I thought it was a 16Ē but itís 14Ē.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2018, 06:02:18 PM by Pod4477 »

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pizza Hut Stuffed Crust Buffalo Chicken Pizza clone
« Reply #17 on: November 02, 2018, 06:43:40 PM »
I apologize Peter,
My pan sizes are actually 7Ē, 10Ē, 14Ē. I did some better measurements today and for some reason I thought it was a 16Ē but itís 14Ē.
Pod4477,

That is no problem. Just use the thickness factor 0.142195 in the dough calculating tool along with the diameters of the pans you mentioned.

Peter

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Re: Pizza Hut Stuffed Crust Buffalo Chicken Pizza clone
« Reply #18 on: November 03, 2018, 02:03:01 PM »
Pod4477,

That is no problem. Just use the thickness factor 0.142195 in the dough calculating tool along with the diameters of the pans you mentioned.

Peter

Thank you!  I did a test bake last night and I need to improve a few things.
1.  I had too big of a dough ball and didn't trim any off the edges, so my rim was way too doughy and thick.
2.  Less cheese
3.  More sauce
4.  A lot of my cheese sticks leaked out of the dough.  I guess I didn't seal them perfectly in a couple spots.

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pizza Hut Stuffed Crust Buffalo Chicken Pizza clone
« Reply #19 on: November 03, 2018, 09:37:35 PM »
Pod4477,

I decided to play around with the numbers at the Nutritionix website (at https://m.nutritionix.com/pizza-hut/menu/premium/) for the PH stuffed crust buffalo chicken pizza and its component parts. I was able to find the Nutrition Facts and ingredients for the entire pizza but for the stuffed crust itself, the grilled chicken, the cheese, the buffalo pizza sauce, the fresh red onions, the sliced banana peppers, and the buffalo drizzle, I was only able to find the generic numbers. But those items are for an original stuffed crust pizza. 

It is important to keep in mind that the major pizza chains, like Pizza Hut, report their nutrition information for their pizzas differently. For example, some report that information for their pizzas as baked, whereas others report the information for their pizzas unbaked. I once had an exchange with Pizza Hut on this matter and was told that their nutrition information was for their pizzas as baked. However, you can never be sure that you are getting the right answer. Nutrition information is a tricky matter. You can get an idea as to how tricky it is by reading Reply 1 at https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=35610.msg354617;topicseen#msg354617.

For now, I just want to post what I have found to date, to give myself some time to play around with the numbers to see whether they tell us of any value. There are also weight losses during baking to consider. You will note below that I calculated the total weights of the items noted. If you click on the links, you will get weights for only one slice. That is what Nutritionix gives you. To get eight slices, you have to change the numbers in the small boxes to get the weights for eight slices.

Large Original Stuffed Crust Buffalo Chicken Pizza: https://m.nutritionix.com/pizza-hut/buffalo-chicken-large-original-stuffed-crust-slice/?show (8 x 144.7 = 1157.6 grams)

Original Large Stuffed Crust Only: https://m.nutritionix.com/pizza-hut/ingredient/23424/original-stuffed-crust-large/?grp=2745&hideServ=1&show (8 x 88.9 = 711.2 grams); for the string cheese, estimate of fat for five pieces = 30 grams

Grilled Chicken Topping for Original Stuffed Crust Pizza: https://m.nutritionix.com/pizza-hut/ingredient/23430/grilled-chicken/?grp=2881&hideServ=1&show (8 x 25.8 = 206.4 grams)

Cheese for Original Stuffed Crust Pizza: https://m.nutritionix.com/pizza-hut/ingredient/23429/cheese/?grp=2816&hideServ=1&show (8 x 19.8 = 158.4 grams)

Buffalo Pizza Sauce for Large Stuffed Crust Pizza: https://m.nutritionix.com/pizza-hut/ingredient/23436/buffalo-pizza-sauce/?grp=2880&hideServ=1&show (8 x 6.9 = 55.2 grams

Fresh Red Onions for Large Stuffed Crust Pizza: https://m.nutritionix.com/pizza-hut/ingredient/23407/fresh-red-onions/?grp=2881&hideServ=1&show (8 x 15 = 120 grams/2 = 60 grams)

Sliced Banana Peppers for Large Original Stuffed Crust Pizza: https://m.nutritionix.com/pizza-hut/ingredient/23452/sliced-banana-peppers/?grp=2881&hideServ=1&show (8 x 7.7 = 61.6/2 = 30.8 grams)

Buffalo Drizzle (Large): https://m.nutritionix.com/pizza-hut/ingredient/23437/buffalo-drizzle/?grp=2808&hideServ=1&show (8 x 6.8 = 54.4 grams)

Pan Oil (soybean oil): No nutrition information given but estimate about 1 1/3 teaspoon (from a test I conducted on a 14" pan), or 6 grams

I think you will also find it interesting to compare the nutrition information and ingredients statement for the Pizza Hut Large Original Buffalo Chicken Pizza, at:

https://m.nutritionix.com/pizza-hut/buffalo-chicken-large-original-pan-slice/?show (8 x 152.6 = 1220.8 grams)

In comparing the two pizzas, I believe the Large Original Stuffed Crust Buffalo Chicken Pizza, whose ingredients list includes mozzarella cheese in two different places, uses a different mozzarella cheese in the rim of the pizza itself. The rim cheese is most likely a stick or string cheese, much as shown in the videos that Matt cited. I would estimate five pieces for a 14Ē pan. And the source is likely to be Leprino Foods, which according to this Forbes article, https://www.forbes.com/sites/chloesorvino/2017/05/23/james-leprino-exclusive-mozzarella-billionaire-cheese-pizza-hut-dominos-papa-johns/#1a109af04958, is Pizza Hutís cheese source. And Leprinoís makes string cheeses for stuffed pizzas: https://leprinofoods.com/product/string-cheese/.

Peter

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