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Author Topic: Caputo Pizzeria v GM Neapolitan  (Read 504 times)

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Online rdbedwards

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Caputo Pizzeria v GM Neapolitan
« on: November 21, 2018, 01:44:20 PM »
Tom, I have another question for you.  For the past year or two I've been dialing in my Neapolitan pizza using Caputo blue, and I've reached a point where I really like the softness, oven spring, and tenderness of the crust.  I recently tried the GM Neapolitan flour and was surprised how different it is, keeping everything else the same.  Here's my current process:

Caputo 00 Pizzeria
64% HR
3% salt
.008% IDY for 48hr RT (40 hours bulk, 8 hrs ball, all 72F)
6-7 minute mix followed by 3 sets of stretches and folds, 20 minutes apart,
35-50 second bakes in WFO, deck temp 850-915F.

The two big differences between the flours was how much chewier the GM is, and also the flavour, which is hard to describe, but I'll say the GM has a "coarser" flavour, perhaps more wheaty.  Do you have any suggestions on improving the texture (I can't see how the flavour can be adjusted), but a softer, less chewy crust would be nice.  The straight GM flour seemed to absorb more water and the dough was less sticky than Caputo when balling.  I tried upping the hydration to 66% and blending 2/3 Caputo with 1/3 GM, but even then the crust tasted like the straight GM and it was too chewy and not tender.  Do you think extending the fermentation to 72 hours might help?  I can't think of any other options.

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Caputo Pizzeria v GM Neapolitan
« Reply #1 on: November 21, 2018, 02:35:53 PM »
Did you just try it the one time? If so, my guess is that something was different in your recipe or workflow, or maybe you got an off bag. I've made 100's of pies with GM Neapolitan and found to be all but indistinguishable from Caputo Pizzeria (I assume this what you mean by "blue"). We did side-by-side cuttings at one of the pizza summits, and dozens of folks thought the same. I know several pizzerias that made the switch and didn't have to adjust the formula or workflow at all.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2018, 02:37:44 PM by TXCraig1 »
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Re: Caputo Pizzeria v GM Neapolitan
« Reply #2 on: November 21, 2018, 02:54:40 PM »
I've used the GM Neapolitan three times now, the first was 100% GM at 64% HR, the second was 100% GM at 66% HR, and the last was 2/3 Caputo Pizzeria aka blue and 1/3 GM, and each time the result was the same - very chewy, coarser flavour in the crust.  Maybe you're right and I got an off bag, but I've got the rest of the 50 pounds to use!

I think you ball your dough earlier than I do, perhaps 12 hours in balls might relax them a bit more and result in a more tender crust?  Or do a longer fermentation?  I can't think of anything else to change.

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Caputo Pizzeria v GM Neapolitan
« Reply #3 on: November 21, 2018, 04:22:48 PM »
I've used the GM Neapolitan three times now, the first was 100% GM at 64% HR, the second was 100% GM at 66% HR, and the last was 2/3 Caputo Pizzeria aka blue and 1/3 GM, and each time the result was the same - very chewy, coarser flavour in the crust.  Maybe you're right and I got an off bag, but I've got the rest of the 50 pounds to use!

I think you ball your dough earlier than I do, perhaps 12 hours in balls might relax them a bit more and result in a more tender crust?  Or do a longer fermentation?  I can't think of anything else to change.

I'm doing either 36+12 or 12+12.

5# or 50#, I put too much effort into my pizza to use flour I don't like. I've pitched several 50# bags over the years.
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, baker's yeast when we must, but always great pizza."  
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Re: Caputo Pizzeria v GM Neapolitan
« Reply #4 on: November 21, 2018, 06:12:49 PM »
Craig, my plan was to try one more time to get a light texture from this flour, if I can come up with a recipe or workflow change that might get me there.  You said you've chucked several big bags of flour over the years - does that mean that getting a bad bag is rather common?  Can you remember if you've had to pitch any GM Neapolitan before?  I've bought 4 or 5 bags of Caputo and never had a problem, but maybe I've just been lucky.

I think I'll try high hydration (68%?) and 36 hours bulk, 12 balls.  With Caputo I've been doing 40h bulk, 8 balls, but I think that's because Caputo can get pretty weak when pushed to 48 hour room temp ferments.

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Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Caputo Pizzeria v GM Neapolitan
« Reply #5 on: November 21, 2018, 06:38:05 PM »
Craig, my plan was to try one more time to get a light texture from this flour, if I can come up with a recipe or workflow change that might get me there.  You said you've chucked several big bags of flour over the years - does that mean that getting a bad bag is rather common?  Can you remember if you've had to pitch any GM Neapolitan before?  I've bought 4 or 5 bags of Caputo and never had a problem, but maybe I've just been lucky.

I think I'll try high hydration (68%?) and 36 hours bulk, 12 balls.  With Caputo I've been doing 40h bulk, 8 balls, but I think that's because Caputo can get pretty weak when pushed to 48 hour room temp ferments.

I don't think I've ever had to throw away a bad bag of flour (save one 5# bag of AP that seemed to have zero gluten) - just flours I didn't care for. I gave another member here 125# of 5Stagioni Napoletana once because I bought 3, used half a bag and didn't like it. Every bag of GMN I've used has been the same. I really like that flour a lot.
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, baker's yeast when we must, but always great pizza."  
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Re: Caputo Pizzeria v GM Neapolitan
« Reply #6 on: November 28, 2018, 03:53:36 PM »
This weekend I had another bash at the GM Neapolitan, and did make some progress.  By increasing the hydration to 69% and increasing the time in balls from 8 hours to over 10 hours, I was able to get a crust that was much less chewy.  The texture is not as soft as Caputo blue, but much better than the previous attempts.  What didn't change, though, is the flavour, which didn't surprise me, because I don't think there's any recipe or workflow that could do so.  Changing the yeast might do it, but I don't have a sourdough culture and no experience working with it.

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Re: Caputo Pizzeria v GM Neapolitan
« Reply #7 on: December 04, 2018, 07:59:31 PM »
After four attempts with the GM flour, I was able to get the texture where I wanted it, but as I last reported, I still experienced a vastly different flavour than with Caputo.  With Craig saying his perception was that the two flours are very similar, I was starting to think that either he or I was crazy.  Well, this weekend I gave it another shot and to my great surprise, the pizza was much better!  Not only was the texture soft and light, but the flavour was great, very similar to Caputo. 

The frustrating part is that I don't know why.  The only change I made to the previous attempt was to use slightly more yeast, but the difference is negligible, as in .01% IDY rather than .009% (.061g this time, .056g last time).  With everything else kept as consistent as I could, surely this isn't the difference?

I'm going to keep using it and see what happens from here.

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Re: Caputo Pizzeria v GM Neapolitan
« Reply #8 on: December 04, 2018, 08:23:51 PM »
Sometimes pizza does what pizza wants to do. I've had days I'm not happy with the pies and have no idea why.
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, baker's yeast when we must, but always great pizza."  
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Offline Little bean

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Re: Caputo Pizzeria v GM Neapolitan
« Reply #9 on: December 04, 2018, 08:52:48 PM »
Sometimes pizza does what pizza wants to do. I've had days I'm not happy with the pies and have no idea why.

I wish I could put this on a t shirt and wear it every day!

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Offline Jon in Albany

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Re: Caputo Pizzeria v GM Neapolitan
« Reply #10 on: December 04, 2018, 11:15:30 PM »
Sometimes pizza does what pizza wants to do. I've had days I'm not happy with the pies and have no idea why.

The worst is when you are really happy with the pies and have no idea why. That happened to me back in June.

Offline Jersey Pie Boy

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Re: Caputo Pizzeria v GM Neapolitan
« Reply #11 on: December 05, 2018, 05:50:26 AM »
Glad you're liking it better. I really love this flour, either straight, or for me, more often in a blend. Availability is the only tricky part...Wish my RD carried it. I hear some do.

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Re: Caputo Pizzeria v GM Neapolitan
« Reply #12 on: December 05, 2018, 02:41:10 PM »
It will be interesting to see if this flour continues to appeal to me or reverts back to the undesirable flavour I was getting before.  I also made pizza with Caputo this weekend and was disappointed, so maybe aliens have transplanted my taste buds. 

"Sometimes pizza does what pizza wants to do" - I like that!

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