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Author Topic: "Historical" US pizzas: anchovy  (Read 751 times)

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Offline peetzabone

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"Historical" US pizzas: anchovy
« on: November 30, 2018, 11:40:00 AM »
I have a saved search on ebay for menus. A lot of older pizzerias (50's, 60's, etc...) had an Anchovy pizza.

Example:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/143031275955?ul_noapp=true

I'm curious if "today's" anchovies bought in a tin are similar to what they used decades ago? Did they put them on whole? Chop them up? I assume they were rinsed first to remove some of the salt.

I like anchovy and want to make one but I want to make it similar to what apparently used to be a common practice. I read that Neapolitan anchovy pizza didn't even use cheese. I'm more interested in the ubiquitous American version.

Offline Yael

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Re: "Historical" US pizzas: anchovy
« Reply #1 on: November 30, 2018, 08:06:16 PM »
Hi,

It's interesting, as anchovy pizza is one of the pizzas we prefer in Marseille, south of France. When Neapolitan left Italy, they left for America, but also France. A few people know about it, but France also has a long history with pizza. I remember both of my grand mothers, even though they were from Spain, making this anchovy pizza. It's now the pizza I prefer. And indeed, there's no cheese, although what the popular pizza pizzamakers make in Marseille now is half anchovy and half cheese (the cheese used is emmental. When Italian arrived in France, they faced basically the same problems they faced when arriving in NY, and they couldn't get fresh mozza so they used the cheese French were using the most at this time : emmental).

In France, I don't know if it's the same anchovy we are using now, but it's just salted fish so I would say the process didn't change a lot, although in supermarket we see less anchovy in salt (this one you have to rinse a while under clear water to remove all the salt) and more anchovy in oil (salt already removed).
« Last Edit: December 01, 2018, 07:10:33 AM by Yael »
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Offline Dangerous Salumi

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Re: "Historical" US pizzas: anchovy
« Reply #2 on: November 30, 2018, 08:14:18 PM »
Hi,

It's interesting, as anchovy pizza is one of the pizzas we prefer in Marseille, south of France. When Neapolitan left Italy, they left for America, but also France. A few people know about it, but France also has a long history with pizza. I remember both of my grand mothers, even though they were from Spain, making this anchovy pizza. It's now the pizza I prefer. And indeed, there's no cheese, although the popular pizza pizzamkers make in Marseille now is half anchovy and half cheese (the cheese used is emmental. When Italian arrived in France, they faced basically the same problems they faced when arriving in NY, and they couldn't get fresh mozza so they used the cheese French were using the most at this time : emmental).

In France, I don't know if it's the same anchovy we are using now, but it's just salted fish so I would say the process didn't change a lot, although in supermarket we see less anchovy in salt (this one you have to rinse a while under clear water to remove all the salt) and more anchovy in oil (salt already removed).

Interesting
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Offline QwertyJuan

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Re: "Historical" US pizzas: anchovy
« Reply #3 on: November 30, 2018, 11:36:08 PM »
My dad moved to Canada from Italy in the 1950's.... he just put anchovy fillets on his pizza. His pizzas were more "gramma style"... I don't remember much besides hating it. The anchovies took over the taste of the pizza. Now as an adult I would love to try again.

Offline norma427

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Re: "Historical" US pizzas: anchovy
« Reply #4 on: December 01, 2018, 05:43:45 AM »
I have a saved search on ebay for menus. A lot of older pizzerias (50's, 60's, etc...) had an Anchovy pizza.

Example:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/143031275955?ul_noapp=true

I'm curious if "today's" anchovies bought in a tin are similar to what they used decades ago? Did they put them on whole? Chop them up? I assume they were rinsed first to remove some of the salt.

I like anchovy and want to make one but I want to make it similar to what apparently used to be a common practice. I read that Neapolitan anchovy pizza didn't even use cheese. I'm more interested in the ubiquitous American version.

peetzabone,

If the Pizza Filling is looked at on the photo at the bottom of Peter's post at Reply 140 https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=14920.msg391142#msg391142 it can be seen that anchovies are used.  That recipe and pizza toppings were from the 1940's.  Madeline Mastro Ferrentino also mentioned using anchovies as a pizza topping a long time ago.

Not sure how the anchovies tasted years ago, but found when purchasing anchovies, there sure are better ones and not too good ones.

Norma

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Offline norcoscia

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Re: "Historical" US pizzas: anchovy
« Reply #5 on: December 01, 2018, 07:08:19 AM »
Hi,

It's interesting, as anchovy pizza is one of the pizzas we prefer in Marseille, south of France. When Neapolitan left Italy, they left for America, but also France. A few people know about it, but France also has a long history with pizza. I remember both of my grand mothers, even though they were from Spain, making this anchovy pizza. It's now the pizza I prefer. And indeed, there's no cheese, although the popular pizza pizzamkers make in Marseille now is half anchovy and half cheese (the cheese used is emmental. When Italian arrived in France, they faced basically the same problems they faced when arriving in NY, and they couldn't get fresh mozza so they used the cheese French were using the most at this time : emmental).

In France, I don't know if it's the same anchovy we are using now, but it's just salted fish so I would say the process didn't change a lot, although in supermarket we see less anchovy in salt (this one you have to rinse a while under clear water to remove all the salt) and more anchovy in oil (salt already removed).

Is the Anchovy usually cooked or placed on the pie post bake?
Norm
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Offline Bill/SFNM

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Re: "Historical" US pizzas: anchovy
« Reply #6 on: December 01, 2018, 08:26:55 AM »

It's interesting, as anchovy pizza is one of the pizzas we prefer in Marseille, south of France.


Yael,

Is this the same thing you are describing?

https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=3986.msg35146#msg35146

Offline Yael

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Re: "Historical" US pizzas: anchovy
« Reply #7 on: December 02, 2018, 01:45:15 AM »
Yael,

Is this the same thing you are describing?

https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=3986.msg35146#msg35146

No, it's not pissaladière. It really is a tomato base pizza  :)
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Offline Yael

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Re: "Historical" US pizzas: anchovy
« Reply #8 on: December 02, 2018, 01:55:07 AM »
You know, that day back in 1889 Raffaele Esposito made 3 pizzas to Queen Margherita : the Margherita we know now ; the Marinera we know now ; and one we talk less about with small fish on it ("cicinielli", you can google it). I suppose anchovies were already used at that time, I don't know why he chose this small fish over anchovy. Well my guess is that anchovies weren't fresh, or were too cheap for the queen...
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Offline peetzabone

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Re: "Historical" US pizzas: anchovy
« Reply #9 on: January 07, 2019, 11:59:31 AM »
Hi,

It's interesting, as anchovy pizza is one of the pizzas we prefer in Marseille, south of France. When Neapolitan left Italy, they left for America, but also France. A few people know about it, but France also has a long history with pizza. I remember both of my grand mothers, even though they were from Spain, making this anchovy pizza. It's now the pizza I prefer. And indeed, there's no cheese, although what the popular pizza pizzamakers make in Marseille now is half anchovy and half cheese (the cheese used is emmental. When Italian arrived in France, they faced basically the same problems they faced when arriving in NY, and they couldn't get fresh mozza so they used the cheese French were using the most at this time : emmental).

In France, I don't know if it's the same anchovy we are using now, but it's just salted fish so I would say the process didn't change a lot, although in supermarket we see less anchovy in salt (this one you have to rinse a while under clear water to remove all the salt) and more anchovy in oil (salt already removed).

Thank you for the fascinating reply!   This pizza is not the same as pissaladiere, correct? Sounds similar.

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Offline Yael

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Re: "Historical" US pizzas: anchovy
« Reply #10 on: January 07, 2019, 08:30:15 PM »
Thank you for the fascinating reply!   This pizza is not the same as pissaladiere, correct? Sounds similar.

Hi!
Pizza and Pissaladiere are different indeed. According to what I read, it's not the same origin ("pissa" looks like "pizza", but the etymology of pissaladiere comes from "fish" - https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pissaladi%C3%A8re).
“Learn the rules like a pro so you can break them like an artist” - Pablo Picasso

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