A D V E R T I S E M E N T


Author Topic: Re: Matt's NY Pizzeria Visits  (Read 4952 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline hammettjr

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3132
  • Location: Long Island, NY
  • Matt
Re: Re: Matt's NY Pizzeria Visits
« Reply #20 on: December 11, 2018, 07:08:19 AM »
Tell that to all of the NYers here that consider Joe's the best.
...

This doesn't make sense.

Who are all these NYers? People tend to have a favorite in their neighborhood, particularly if they grew up there. Tell all the NYers that consider Amore the best that they are eating crap pizza that isn't real NY style...

Joe's is an as-seen-on-tv destination. So is Di Fara. Given the poplularity there will be many people that call one or the other of these the best. But one is "simpler" as you say and one is loaded with flavors. How do we reconcile the 2?

My point, which everyone seems to want to ignore, is that there is no best or true style. There are differences. Some prefer one over the other. Some like both and on any given day choose what they're in the mood for.

« Last Edit: December 11, 2018, 07:17:12 AM by hammettjr »
Matt

Offline HansB

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 4446
  • Location: Detroit, MI
    • 500px
Re: Re: Matt's NY Pizzeria Visits
« Reply #21 on: December 11, 2018, 07:23:29 AM »

My point, which everyone seems to want to ignore, is that there is no best or true style. There are differences.

^^^
Hans

Offline Josh123

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 404
Re: Re: Matt's NY Pizzeria Visits
« Reply #22 on: December 11, 2018, 09:38:20 AM »
Tell that to all of the NYers here that consider Joe's the best. Maybe in Pittsburgh or the rust belt they prefer those heavy flavors (herbed sauce, lots of cheese, etc) but that's just not a NY thing and it never has been. My entire family was off the boat, settled in NY, and was eating pizza there before Joe's was even around. Historically, NY has always leaned toward "simpler" when it comes to pizza. The East Coast, in general, does (and that starts from people leaving NY and opening shops in Jersey)

Also, to compare the sauce/cheese on a neapolitan vs the sauce/cheese on a NY style is total apples and oranges. You're talking about fresh mozzarella and roughly crushed tomatoes on a 50 second baked unmalted dough vs a longer bake more akin to a bread like crust with NY style.

Anyway, it's my opinion Joe's has been significantly better (to my taste buds) than Suprema recently. I'm sure in no small part just because suprema has been so busy they can barely keep up. Oven was so cold pies were tearing on my last visit. So many guys back there making pies.

Thats why every slice shop has hordes of people dumping Romano, oregano, granulated garlic, hot pepper seeds on their street slices? Or why all these newer and bougie places, including Robertas and Nino's places doing like fennel pollen and figs on their Pizza? Lol, c'mon dude.

Offline Josh123

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 404
Re: Re: Matt's NY Pizzeria Visits
« Reply #23 on: December 11, 2018, 09:42:50 AM »
This doesn't make sense.

Who are all these NYers? People tend to have a favorite in their neighborhood, particularly if they grew up there. Tell all the NYers that consider Amore the best that they are eating crap pizza that isn't real NY style...

Joe's is an as-seen-on-tv destination. So is Di Fara. Given the poplularity there will be many people that call one or the other of these the best. But one is "simpler" as you say and one is loaded with flavors. How do we reconcile the 2?

My point, which everyone seems to want to ignore, is that there is no best or true style. There are differences. Some prefer one over the other. Some like both and on any given day choose what they're in the mood for.

Exactly. Post makes zero sense.  :-D

Offline Dangerous Salumi

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 976
  • Location: Few miles west of the George Washington Bridge
  • Using our home grown culture to leaven our dough
Re: Re: Matt's NY Pizzeria Visits
« Reply #24 on: December 11, 2018, 11:15:24 AM »
This doesn't make sense.

Who are all these NYers? People tend to have a favorite in their neighborhood, particularly if they grew up there. Tell all the NYers that consider Amore the best that they are eating crap pizza that isn't real NY style...

Joe's is an as-seen-on-tv destination. So is Di Fara. Given the poplularity there will be many people that call one or the other of these the best. But one is "simpler" as you say and one is loaded with flavors. How do we reconcile the 2?

My point, which everyone seems to want to ignore, is that there is no best or true style. There are differences. Some prefer one over the other. Some like both and on any given day choose what they're in the mood for.

Honestly, this is a legit street slice and my favorite https://www.2brospizza.com
Those others are likely hyp'd however I will try all three (four?) in the same day soon.

At this time my favorite of any pie besides my own is Frank Pepe's in New Haven.
Have a Dangerous day!


“They say that competitive eating is the battleground upon which God and Lucifer wage war for mens souls my friends, and they are right.”  - George Shea, Chairman, Major League Eating

A D V E R T I S E M E N T


Offline hammettjr

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3132
  • Location: Long Island, NY
  • Matt
Re: Re: Matt's NY Pizzeria Visits
« Reply #25 on: December 11, 2018, 12:16:57 PM »
...I will try all three (four?) in the same day soon.


I highly recommend doing that. Even if you don't end up loving all the pizzerias, it's a great learning experience.
Matt

Offline Jon in Albany

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1930
  • Location: Albany, NY
    • Jon In Albany Blog
Re: Re: Matt's NY Pizzeria Visits
« Reply #26 on: December 11, 2018, 12:57:40 PM »
I highly recommend doing that. Even if you don't end up loving all the pizzerias, it's a great learning experience.
I totally agree. There a guy in my area with a food blog and he puts together seasonal tours like going to 5 places for wings or cider doughnuts. There were a few soft serve ice cream ones too. Anyhow, when you go back to back, you can really notice differences.

Offline Dangerous Salumi

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 976
  • Location: Few miles west of the George Washington Bridge
  • Using our home grown culture to leaven our dough
Re: Re: Matt's NY Pizzeria Visits
« Reply #27 on: December 11, 2018, 09:57:41 PM »
Have a Dangerous day!


“They say that competitive eating is the battleground upon which God and Lucifer wage war for mens souls my friends, and they are right.”  - George Shea, Chairman, Major League Eating

Offline hammettjr

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3132
  • Location: Long Island, NY
  • Matt
Matt

Offline hotsawce

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 2288
Re: Re: Matt's NY Pizzeria Visits
« Reply #29 on: December 12, 2018, 01:02:55 PM »
How does it not make sense?

Hate to break it to you, but there's a reason Joe's is consistently named by numerous NY publications as the prototypical NY slice. NY Times, Eater, Grubstreet, Food and Wine, Timeout, Scott's Pizza Tours, and everyone who owns or runs a pizza shop here (Mark Iacono, Frank Pinello, Paulie, Adam Kuban the list goes on.) Anyone who is actually here will tell you Joe's is the template for a NY slice, and other slices tend to follow that. Luigi's in South Brooklyn, countless other slice shops. It's dough, milled tomato with little to no seasoning, and aged mozzarella in the proper proportions baked on a stone.

I'm not saying you have to like it, but don't go changing what has historically been NY pizza for decades. You can have your personal preferences but this is what NY pizza has been. And by the way, there's a reason Amore or Lucia don't make those "best of lists." Again, you don't have to agree but you guys are in the minority compared to the people that actually live here or come from the area. But don't attribute it to "as seen on tv" you don't survive for 40 years from being on TV once. That pizzeria in "The Last Dragon" was heavily featured and doesn't get half the business Joe's does  :-D

I don't understand the quip about the condiments. The add-your-own condiment thing is, again, something that's tried and true NY. You claim it's because the pizza is flavorless, yet this has been around forever. You can see it in old pictures of NY pizzerias. Some people like oregano, some don't. Some like a little more sharp cheese, others don't. Same with chili flake. I don't see how that is a mark on the quality of the slice rather than a personal preference thing.

Again, you're going to have your own preferences for flavor but don't try and change the definition of what NY pizza has been for decades. The idea of cooked sauces, heavily doctored sauces, tons of cheese...just not accurate and never was a "thing." You can see it in the trend from Lombardi's to Totonno's through to John's and the move from the coal oven spots to deck ovens.

This doesn't make sense.

Who are all these NYers? People tend to have a favorite in their neighborhood, particularly if they grew up there. Tell all the NYers that consider Amore the best that they are eating crap pizza that isn't real NY style...

Joe's is an as-seen-on-tv destination. So is Di Fara. Given the poplularity there will be many people that call one or the other of these the best. But one is "simpler" as you say and one is loaded with flavors. How do we reconcile the 2?

My point, which everyone seems to want to ignore, is that there is no best or true style. There are differences. Some prefer one over the other. Some like both and on any given day choose what they're in the mood for.

A D V E R T I S E M E N T


Offline Josh123

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 404
Re: Re: Matt's NY Pizzeria Visits
« Reply #30 on: December 12, 2018, 04:31:45 PM »
Amore, Margherita, New Park, etc have all been open longer than Joe's. Busier than Joe's and more expensive. They dont make big time publications cause its not in lower manhattan or west Brooklyn. The people are the real test of what's good and timeless.

Offline Dangerous Salumi

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 976
  • Location: Few miles west of the George Washington Bridge
  • Using our home grown culture to leaven our dough
Re: Re: Matt's NY Pizzeria Visits
« Reply #31 on: December 12, 2018, 05:43:26 PM »
How does it not make sense?

Hate to break it to you, but there's a reason Joe's is consistently named by numerous NY publications as the prototypical NY slice. NY Times, Eater, Grubstreet, Food and Wine, Timeout, Scott's Pizza Tours, and everyone who owns or runs a pizza shop here (Mark Iacono, Frank Pinello, Paulie, Adam Kuban the list goes on.) Anyone who is actually here will tell you Joe's is the template for a NY slice, and other slices tend to follow that. Luigi's in South Brooklyn, countless other slice shops. It's dough, milled tomato with little to no seasoning, and aged mozzarella in the proper proportions baked on a stone.

I'm not saying you have to like it, but don't go changing what has historically been NY pizza for decades. You can have your personal preferences but this is what NY pizza has been. And by the way, there's a reason Amore or Lucia don't make those "best of lists." Again, you don't have to agree but you guys are in the minority compared to the people that actually live here or come from the area. But don't attribute it to "as seen on tv" you don't survive for 40 years from being on TV once. That pizzeria in "The Last Dragon" was heavily featured and doesn't get half the business Joe's does  :-D

I don't understand the quip about the condiments. The add-your-own condiment thing is, again, something that's tried and true NY. You claim it's because the pizza is flavorless, yet this has been around forever. You can see it in old pictures of NY pizzerias. Some people like oregano, some don't. Some like a little more sharp cheese, others don't. Same with chili flake. I don't see how that is a mark on the quality of the slice rather than a personal preference thing.

Again, you're going to have your own preferences for flavor but don't try and change the definition of what NY pizza has been for decades. The idea of cooked sauces, heavily doctored sauces, tons of cheese...just not accurate and never was a "thing." You can see it in the trend from Lombardi's to Totonno's through to John's and the move from the coal oven spots to deck ovens.

Look at these reviews... 2Bros ftw

https://www.tripadvisor.com/Restaurant_Review-g60763-d2200990-Reviews-2_Bros_Pizza-New_York_City_New_York.html
Have a Dangerous day!


“They say that competitive eating is the battleground upon which God and Lucifer wage war for mens souls my friends, and they are right.”  - George Shea, Chairman, Major League Eating

Offline Dangerous Salumi

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 976
  • Location: Few miles west of the George Washington Bridge
  • Using our home grown culture to leaven our dough
Re: Re: Matt's NY Pizzeria Visits
« Reply #32 on: December 12, 2018, 05:46:42 PM »
Have a Dangerous day!


“They say that competitive eating is the battleground upon which God and Lucifer wage war for mens souls my friends, and they are right.”  - George Shea, Chairman, Major League Eating

Offline Dangerous Salumi

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 976
  • Location: Few miles west of the George Washington Bridge
  • Using our home grown culture to leaven our dough
Re: Re: Matt's NY Pizzeria Visits
« Reply #33 on: December 12, 2018, 05:58:33 PM »
This guy thinks Joe's is the best and 2Bros should not be called "pizza" ...douchebaggery if you ask me.


https://thepizzasnob.net/2012/07/19/one-last-slice-of-new-york-joes-pizza/
Have a Dangerous day!


“They say that competitive eating is the battleground upon which God and Lucifer wage war for mens souls my friends, and they are right.”  - George Shea, Chairman, Major League Eating

Offline hotsawce

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 2288
Re: Re: Matt's NY Pizzeria Visits
« Reply #34 on: December 13, 2018, 12:12:20 AM »
I agree with the guy  :-X

I gotta say, 2Bros has a pretty questionable reputation here... it's very thick, bready, baked on a screen. See here https://slice.seriouseats.com/2009/04/cheap-dollar-slice-pizza-showdown-99-cent-fresh-pizza-vs-st-marks-2-bros-pizza-hells-kitchen-manhattan-nyc-review.html

I'm decidedly in Adam Kuban's corner here... but different strokes for different folks. you like what you like.

This guy thinks Joe's is the best and 2Bros should not be called "pizza" ...douchebaggery if you ask me.


https://thepizzasnob.net/2012/07/19/one-last-slice-of-new-york-joes-pizza/
« Last Edit: December 13, 2018, 12:21:45 AM by hotsawce »

A D V E R T I S E M E N T


Offline Dangerous Salumi

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 976
  • Location: Few miles west of the George Washington Bridge
  • Using our home grown culture to leaven our dough
Re: Re: Matt's NY Pizzeria Visits
« Reply #35 on: December 13, 2018, 06:22:22 AM »
I agree with the guy  :-X

I gotta say, 2Bros has a pretty questionable reputation here... it's very thick, bready, baked on a screen. See here https://slice.seriouseats.com/2009/04/cheap-dollar-slice-pizza-showdown-99-cent-fresh-pizza-vs-st-marks-2-bros-pizza-hells-kitchen-manhattan-nyc-review.html

I'm decidedly in Adam Kuban's corner here... but different strokes for different folks. you like what you like.

If I wasn’t so busy today I would take the train into the city today just to have a couple slices at Joe’s. Maybe tomorrow.
Have a Dangerous day!


“They say that competitive eating is the battleground upon which God and Lucifer wage war for mens souls my friends, and they are right.”  - George Shea, Chairman, Major League Eating

Offline hammettjr

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3132
  • Location: Long Island, NY
  • Matt
Re: Re: Matt's NY Pizzeria Visits
« Reply #36 on: December 13, 2018, 09:53:39 PM »
How does it not make sense?
...

Your argument was that lots of NYers saying Joe's is the best demonstrates that herbs and heavy flavors "is not a NY thing and never has been". That logic fails for a number of reasons. One of which I already pointed out - lots of NYers say Di Fara is the best...so evidently it is a thing.

I'm not saying you have to like it, but don't go changing what has historically been NY pizza for decades. You can have your personal preferences but this is what NY pizza has been. And by the way, there's a reason Amore or Lucia don't make those "best of lists." Again, you don't have to agree but you guys are in the minority compared to the people that actually live here or come from the area....

I never once made any statement during this discussion about what defines NY pizza. On the contrary, I've said repeatedly that I'm trying not to do so. All I said was that Joe's had simple flavors and I appreciated the crust, and Suprema had an in your face romano and sauce.

Moreover, I refer to the heavily topped pizzas in Queens as "Queens style" acknowledging that these are not the typical classic slice. I'm not sure why you're even bringing them up in this discussion about Joe's and Suprema.

And I really dont care what magazines or celebrities say, but thats besides the point. And I do live "here". My parents and in-laws have been eating pizza here since the 50s. But again, none of this is really relevant.

I dont think I've said anything controversial during this discussion. But Josh saying he thought Joe's is bland seems to have led you to defend it.


« Last Edit: December 13, 2018, 09:57:51 PM by hammettjr »
Matt

Online jkb

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 6158
Re: Re: Matt's NY Pizzeria Visits
« Reply #37 on: December 14, 2018, 01:04:07 AM »
But Josh saying he thought Joe's is bland seems to have led you to defend it.


Joe's is bland, but the flavors are great and well balanced.  That's tough to pull off.  I'd like to get there.  My parents were born in Queens in the '20s.  My early pizza memories are from visiting my grandparents.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2018, 02:50:48 AM by jkb »
John

Offline hotsawce

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 2288
Re: Re: Matt's NY Pizzeria Visits
« Reply #38 on: December 14, 2018, 02:21:35 AM »
DiFara is something unique that hasn’t always been topped the way you have come to know it. It’s definitely changed over the years.

That being said, his pie is basically a dressed up NY pie. Uncooked plum tomatoes and aged low moisture mozzarella with a lard of hard cheese and basil post bake.

I’m simply saying the flavors you find in Joe’s pizza are what have come to define Ny pizzerias. Joes is the one that executed it best, but countless others do it the same way. You have the addition of a Romano sprinkle here and there, or a shake of oregano pre bake, but there’s never the cooked sauce or heavily doctored sauces in the style. It’s always been dough, tomatoes, aged mozz not messed with too much. I actually think I posted a vid from Suprema where the owner actually says this in his definition of NY pizza.

By the way, history matters. Culture matters. Italian American food is its own cuisine. Carbone has made it the backbone of his restaurant empire. But believe whatever you want

Your argument was that lots of NYers saying Joe's is the best demonstrates that herbs and heavy flavors "is not a NY thing and never has been". That logic fails for a number of reasons. One of which I already pointed out - lots of NYers say Di Fara is the best...so evidently it is a thing.

I never once made any statement during this discussion about what defines NY pizza. On the contrary, I've said repeatedly that I'm trying not to do so. All I said was that Joe's had simple flavors and I appreciated the crust, and Suprema had an in your face romano and sauce.

Moreover, I refer to the heavily topped pizzas in Queens as "Queens style" acknowledging that these are not the typical classic slice. I'm not sure why you're even bringing them up in this discussion about Joe's and Suprema.

And I really dont care what magazines or celebrities say, but thats besides the point. And I do live "here". My parents and in-laws have been eating pizza here since the 50s. But again, none of this is really relevant.

I dont think I've said anything controversial during this discussion. But Josh saying he thought Joe's is bland seems to have led you to defend it.

Offline hotsawce

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 2288
Re: Re: Matt's NY Pizzeria Visits
« Reply #39 on: December 14, 2018, 02:23:10 AM »
What you call bland, I call balance. I don’t mean that in a bad way. But I think that’s what you want in a NY slice - something that is greater than the sum of its parts in harmony. It should taste of gold bread, good tomatoes, and salted milk.


Joe's is bland, but the the flavors are great and well balanced.  That's tough to pull off.  I'd like to get there.  My parents were born in Queens in the '20s.  My early pizza memories are from visiting my grandparents.

A D V E R T I S E M E N T


 

wordpress