A D V E R T I S E M E N T


Author Topic: When is the dough ready to bake?  (Read 586 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline dmen

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 15
  • Location: Waukesha, WI
  • I Love Pizza!
When is the dough ready to bake?
« on: January 02, 2019, 07:47:02 PM »
So, I've been making dough with Ischia culture for a while and while it's always good tasting, sometimes it's not as airy and light as I'd like. Which leads me to my question - when is right? I do a 1.7% culture recipe, and I do 36 hours bulk ferment and then ball it. I have normally taken the dough out of my 64 basement about 6 hours before I want to cook - into my 73  kitchen. On New Years I made 5 doughs but only cooked 4 pies... they were a little flat. One dough ball sat out on the counter overnight and by morning it had risen to fill more than 1/2 of it's container. I dumped it out and opened it and it was awesome.. it smelled better than the night before and was so soft and supple. So, how do I know when to bake it? I mean I'd probably never use it after it rose THAT much but I think I used it too soon also. Thanks.

Offline dmen

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 15
  • Location: Waukesha, WI
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: When is the dough ready to bake?
« Reply #1 on: January 10, 2019, 02:50:02 PM »
Nothing?

Offline The Dough Doctor

  • Tom Lehmann
  • Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 4791
  • Location: Manhattan, KS
    • Dough Doctor
Re: When is the dough ready to bake?
« Reply #2 on: January 10, 2019, 02:59:10 PM »
It sounds like your dough isn't getting enough fermentation for your specific taste. Try increasing the amount of
SD culture but continue using your regular procedure.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

Offline dmen

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 15
  • Location: Waukesha, WI
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: When is the dough ready to bake?
« Reply #3 on: January 10, 2019, 03:12:20 PM »
Thanks Tom, I'm not sure that's quite it. Like I mentioned - when I left it overnight it had way over risen, so there's enough starter - at least given the longer fermentation time. I'm just wondering how to know when it's really ready to bake. Is it just a matter of trial and error? Essentially it just needed to sit out at room temp longer than I let before cooking, I'm just not quite sure how to tell when that is... yet. :)

Offline The Dough Doctor

  • Tom Lehmann
  • Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 4791
  • Location: Manhattan, KS
    • Dough Doctor
Re: When is the dough ready to bake?
« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2019, 07:40:13 PM »
Define "way over risen". Did the dough rise and then collapse all on its own? That's a pretty good definition of over risen since in that case the dough has become so weak that it can no longer support its own weight (re-balling may or may not salvage a dough that has over risen aka over fermented). If your dough just kept gradually rising without collapsing (you didn't mention anything about the dough collapsing) fermentation is most likely the issue. If you have a true SD based on a lactic acid forming bacteria it can easily take 18 to 24-hours for the dough to become properly fermented. We used to allow our SD rolls to final proof for 18-hours between forming and baking.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

A D V E R T I S E M E N T


Offline Lawnguy

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 13
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: When is the dough ready to bake?
« Reply #5 on: January 11, 2019, 04:38:26 AM »
From my experience with starter and from what I've read. You have to feed the starter and leave it at room temp until it doubles or more. Usually if the starter is being fed regularly this will take place in 4 to 6 hours. If you haven't been feeding the starter daily or weekly you may need to feed it and then see how long it takes to rise. If it takes longer than 6 hours than the starter is not active enough and may need another feeding before it is rejuvenated enough to do its thing. Timing also involves the ambient temps too.

What is your feeding schedule? At what temp? What do your feedings look like and how often? An active starter should be used withing 24 hours after it has shown that is active enough to do its thing.  The longer you wait once active the less effect it has and the more sour it gets. At what temp are you doing the 36 hour ferment? Are you using any yeast with the dough in addition to the starter?

I'm no expert as I'm learning all this myself. But everything you do from start to finish effects the end result. Are you documenting everything you are doing in your workflow so you can repeat the process once you have it refined? It sounds like you may be missing the starters peak and that is why your getting inconsistencies. Your fermentation time may be too long for the temps you are fermenting at. Are you retarding for 36 hours in your 64 degree basement? The colder it is retarded at the longer things are going to take and vise versa. The hardest thing for me has been learning what the dough should look like and feel like at the different stages of the whole process. Another thing is smell. Smelling and even tasting the starter will give you indications on what it is doing.

You could be over fermenting and everything is starting to breakdown. What are you doing start to finish?








Offline dmen

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 15
  • Location: Waukesha, WI
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: When is the dough ready to bake?
« Reply #6 on: January 11, 2019, 04:11:16 PM »
@Lawnguy thanks much - my starter is very active - it's fed every morning and doubles in ~3 hours. My question really wasn't so much about the starter - just knowing when the 'right' time is to bake. My bulk is done at 64 and no there's no other yeast.

@Tom thanks, that's good to know that it can take that long. It's a true SD yes- it's Ischia from sourdo.com. It was just starting to collapse at around 20 hours at room temp. So that'd be right around 80 hours in total - with 36 in bulk, and 24 in ball. Seems to me right around 15 hours would've been just about right. Time to make some dough...

Offline HansB

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3636
  • Location: Detroit, MI
    • 500px
Re: When is the dough ready to bake?
« Reply #7 on: January 11, 2019, 04:24:06 PM »
This works really well for my bread, I sometimes use it for pizza too. It's not fool proof but can be a good starting point for you to judge the proof.

Hans

Offline norcoscia

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 3979
  • Location: WA
  • I really Love Pizza!
    • MyPizzaMaster
Re: When is the dough ready to bake?
« Reply #8 on: January 11, 2019, 04:34:08 PM »
That is a good tip, I had forgotten all about that, learned it a long long time ago but we did not go in as far as he does - just a little dent to see if it springs back. Did that for bread but after a while you can just look at it and get pretty darn close. Don't think I have ever done that for pizza but no reason it could not work I guess...

Forgot to add -- when I learned that trick the how to push explanation involved a persons anatomy - FCC regulations don't allow me to repeat it online :-)

Now that I think about it more, it did involve language about doing it gently - he obviously did not hear about it from the same person I did  :-D
« Last Edit: January 11, 2019, 04:38:27 PM by norcoscia »
Norm
Baker's Pride GP-61 NG, Baker's Pride M02T 220V, PizzaParty Ardore (with saputo tiles) LP
Focus is NY style but do others too
Preferred Flour (for NY pies) is All Trumps BB
Preferred temperature for NY is 550F, for NP 900+F
Preferred type of yeast IDY

A D V E R T I S E M E N T


 

wordpress