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Offline Pod4477

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California Pizza Kitchen Dough?
« on: January 16, 2019, 12:18:36 PM »
So Ive watched the videos on CPKs pizza prep and always wondered what their dough consisted of. I expect they keep it tight to their chest, but does anyone know the ingredients or hydration of their dough?  Id love to make an exact clone when I make their bbq chicken pizza ;D. Thank you!

Edit: I found some awesome info on here that discusses California dough. My search if CPK didnt return any results, so thats the only reason I made a new thread. From what I read it is a low protein, 3 day minimum fermented dough. Maybe 5% oil but Im not sure but with 65% hydration.
I remembered this video from a several years ago I believe:

I definitely want to try to clone this pizza and this thread can either be deleted or kept, since the info is already out there. I will use the recipes Peter posted. From the video it looks similar to my 600 cooks with some Maillard reaction on there too. They said they cook around 500-600 and the crust reminds me of the bready PR crust, but Im sure they use lower protein flour. The crust is very bread-like and soft looking.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2019, 01:00:29 PM by Pod4477 »

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: California Pizza Kitchen Dough?
« Reply #1 on: January 16, 2019, 01:41:51 PM »
Pod4477,

Several years ago, I played around with some versions of the California pizza style, including pizzas based on the work of the California Pizza Kitchen. I found a recipe for the dough that the founders put into a pizza cookbook but I highly doubt that the recipe was the one they used to make the pizzas in their restaurants.

I don't know what posts you found through your search, but you may want to check out these posts, in no particular order, and those posts and links referenced therein, although some of the links may no longer work:

Reply 4 at https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=10176.msg91645#msg91645,

Reply 6 at https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=48445.msg486655;topicseen#msg486655,

Reply 3 at https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=22400.msg228027;topicseen#msg228027 (mainly for historical background),

Reply 13 at https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=702.msg56174#msg56174,

Reply 9 at https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=2797.msg28252#msg28252,

Reply 26 at https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=704.msg91701;topicseen#msg91701,

Reply 1 at https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=3351.msg28384;topicseen#msg28384,

Reply 5 at https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=3294.msg27992;topicseen#msg27992,

Reply 5 at https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=5487.msg46356;topicseen#msg46356.

Reply 1 at https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=5457.msg46094;topicseen#msg46094 (for historical background),

Reply 50 at https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=10213.msg89923#msg89923,

Reply 3 at https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=50188.msg504722;topicseen#msg504722,

Reply 1 at https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=5504.msg46556;topicseen#msg46556.

The above posts should keep you busy for a while but I wanted to put what you propose to do in perspective since, in my opinion, the California pizza style died when Ed Ladou died.

You should be fine to post your efforts in this thread if you so wish so that others can benefit from the complete experience, from the background and history of the California style to your representation of that style through your particular pizzas. The one thing that stood out over the years was how creative the toppings and sauces could be for the California pizza style.

Peter




Offline jsaras

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Re: California Pizza Kitchen Dough?
« Reply #2 on: January 16, 2019, 07:29:47 PM »
I cant remember where I got this formulation, but heres one to try:

CPK Basic Dough Recipe
100%, Flour (all-purpose)
59.3%, Water
3.75%, Sugar
2.63%, Salt,
8.78%, Extra virgin olive oil
0.94%, Instant dry yeast (IDY)

Thickness factor (TF) = 0.103
 
To make the dough:
1. Dissolve the yeast in the water and set aside for 5 to 10 minutes. Be sure that the water is not hot; temperatures of 120 F and above will kill the yeast and the dough will not rise.

2. If using an upright electric mixer, such as a KitchenAid, use the mixing paddle attachment because the batch size is too small for the dough hook to be effective. Combine all other ingredients (except one teaspoon of olive oil) and combine them with the dissolved yeast in the mixing bowl. (Do not pour the salt directly into the yeast water because this would kill some of the yeast.) Allow these 2 ingredients to mix gradually; use the lowest 2 speeds to mix the dough. Mix for 2 to 3 minutes, until the dough is smooth and elastic. Over mixing will produce tough, rubbery dough, and friction will cause dough to rise too fast.
 
3. Lightly oil the dough ball and the interior of a 1 quart glass bowl. Place the dough ball in the bowl and seal the bowl with clear food wrap; seal air tight. Set aside at room temperature (70-80 F) to rise until double in size; about 1 to 2 hours.

4. Note: The dough could be used at this point, but it will not be that wonderful, chewy, flavorful dough that it will become later. Punch down the dough, re-form a nice round ball and return it to the same bowl; cover again with clear food wrap. Place the bowl in the refrigerator overnight covered airtight.

5. About 2 hours before you are ready to assemble your pizza, remove the dough from the refrigerator.

I find the salt, sugar and oil amounts to be so high as to be ludicrous.  Member November had a formulation that seems more plausible:

100% flour <= 12% protein
62.1% water
3.90% olive oil
2.67% sugar
2.41% salt
0.87% ADY or 0.39% IDY
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: California Pizza Kitchen Dough?
« Reply #3 on: January 16, 2019, 08:04:29 PM »
Seeing Jonas' reference to the use of extra virgin olive oil, I recall reading an article by California Olive Ranch that CPK used their olive oils. I wrote about such use at Reply 12 at https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=36892.msg367562#msg367562 but the article did not say that extra virgin olive oil was used in the CPK dough. However, both recipes cited by Jonas call for EVOO, so it can't be ruled out.

Peter

Offline Pod4477

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Re: California Pizza Kitchen Dough?
« Reply #4 on: January 17, 2019, 03:24:16 AM »
Thank you both! I will look over these links and recipes. 

Peter,
That's interesting because I mainly use California Olive Ranch EVOO and love it. 

jsaras,
I agree that the salt, oil, and sugar are quite high.  I have used 15% oil as a test and found no big difference flavor-wise, so I tend to use less oil now.  It definitely makes the dough softer, but also costs more money ingredient wise.  With Pizzeria Regina, I found the long fermentation is what gives it the most flavor.  Also, it seems that this dough shouldn't be kneaded for a long time.  2-3 minutes seems like minimal gluten formation.  Do you know if this dough is supposed to have less gluten structure on purpose? 

Do you both think that my best approach would be be mix and then cold ferment for 1-3 days; or mix, bulk rise at room temp for the 2 hours, and then cold ferment for 1-3 days?  I also think the 9 day cold ferment of PR could be fun to try here with the All-Purpose flour, but I may need to lower the IDY or keep it the same for that.  I also wonder if I will be brushing EVOO on the crust.  From the video I posted, it looks like they don't do that. 

The process looks very similar to how I make the PR pizza.  Hand stretched and baked around 600F.  It seems the only differences are the lower protein flour being used and the fermentation time.  What do you think gives it the signature light, crispy, sturdy, no-flop characteristics?  The chef in the CPK video said it was the longer bake time at 600F instead of the 2 minute bake at 800F+.  Dough ball weight will be key here so I appreciate the thickness factor!
« Last Edit: January 17, 2019, 03:29:56 AM by Pod4477 »

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Offline Pod4477

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Re: California Pizza Kitchen Dough?
« Reply #5 on: January 22, 2019, 11:36:07 PM »
My second all time CPK BBQ Chicken Pizza test was yesterday using the PR dough.  I wanted to see how it would compare even though I used more dough than they do. I used 500g and I didn't open it much so it came out to around 10".  I was going for more of a doughy 10" pie such as Pizzeria Regina makes, but next time I will do a thinner one.  It was very close to CPK, but I know theirs must use less dough.  I will make a dough specific for this pizza, this week, but I was happy with the firm crust of this one already from cooking indoors on my steel, at 485F.  I used pressure cooked chicken breasts that I sliced and tossed in BBQ sauce, along with smoked gouda cheese, mozzarella cheese, red onions, and cilantro. 
« Last Edit: January 23, 2019, 12:07:21 AM by Pod4477 »

Offline Pod4477

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Re: California Pizza Kitchen Dough?
« Reply #6 on: January 25, 2019, 12:35:03 PM »
I cant remember where I got this formulation, but heres one to try:

CPK Basic Dough Recipe
100%, Flour (all-purpose)
59.3%, Water
3.75%, Sugar
2.63%, Salt,
8.78%, Extra virgin olive oil
0.94%, Instant dry yeast (IDY)

Thickness factor (TF) = 0.103
 
To make the dough:
1. Dissolve the yeast in the water and set aside for 5 to 10 minutes. Be sure that the water is not hot; temperatures of 120 F and above will kill the yeast and the dough will not rise.

2. If using an upright electric mixer, such as a KitchenAid, use the mixing paddle attachment because the batch size is too small for the dough hook to be effective. Combine all other ingredients (except one teaspoon of olive oil) and combine them with the dissolved yeast in the mixing bowl. (Do not pour the salt directly into the yeast water because this would kill some of the yeast.) Allow these 2 ingredients to mix gradually; use the lowest 2 speeds to mix the dough. Mix for 2 to 3 minutes, until the dough is smooth and elastic. Over mixing will produce tough, rubbery dough, and friction will cause dough to rise too fast.
 
3. Lightly oil the dough ball and the interior of a 1 quart glass bowl. Place the dough ball in the bowl and seal the bowl with clear food wrap; seal air tight. Set aside at room temperature (70-80 F) to rise until double in size; about 1 to 2 hours.

4. Note: The dough could be used at this point, but it will not be that wonderful, chewy, flavorful dough that it will become later. Punch down the dough, re-form a nice round ball and return it to the same bowl; cover again with clear food wrap. Place the bowl in the refrigerator overnight covered airtight.

5. About 2 hours before you are ready to assemble your pizza, remove the dough from the refrigerator.

I find the salt, sugar and oil amounts to be so high as to be ludicrous.  Member November had a formulation that seems more plausible:

100% flour <= 12% protein
62.1% water
3.90% olive oil
2.67% sugar
2.41% salt
0.87% ADY or 0.39% IDY

Going to make a some doughs with either of these calculations.  I tend to prefer lower IDY so I think I may like the latter more.  Does anyone know the size of a regular CPK pizza?  I also assume the original chicken that was used on the BBQ chicken pizza was strips of chicken breast tossed in BBQ sauce, but not sure.  I also wonder what type of BBQ sauce they use.  Thank you!
« Last Edit: January 25, 2019, 12:47:37 PM by Pod4477 »

Offline jsaras

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Re: California Pizza Kitchen Dough?
« Reply #7 on: January 25, 2019, 11:33:28 PM »
Going to make a some doughs with either of these calculations.  I tend to prefer lower IDY so I think I may like the latter more.  Does anyone know the size of a regular CPK pizza?  I also assume the original chicken that was used on the BBQ chicken pizza was strips of chicken breast tossed in BBQ sauce, but not sure.  I also wonder what type of BBQ sauce they use.  Thank you!


Id suggest 11-inch pizzas.  The BBQ sauce is completely up to you, but I used it on the crust, like tomato sauce.  Precooked chicken strips worked fine when I tried it.  If I remember correctly, I think I just added a bit of oil and black pepper to it.
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: California Pizza Kitchen Dough?
« Reply #8 on: January 26, 2019, 10:41:17 AM »
Does anyone know the size of a regular CPK pizza?  I also assume the original chicken that was used on the BBQ chicken pizza was strips of chicken breast tossed in BBQ sauce, but not sure.  I also wonder what type of BBQ sauce they use.  Thank you!

Pod4477,

I can only speak to what I have read about the CPK BBQ chicken pizza in the CPK cookbook and online searches.

As for the chicken used to make the BBQ chicken pizza, the cookbook calls for 10 ounces of boneless skinless chicken breasts, cut into 1/4-inch cubes. The chicken is cooked in a large frying pan in olive oil over medium-high heat until just cooked, 5 to 6 minutes. The cooked chicken is then set aside in the refrigerator until chilled through. Once chilled, coat the chicken with 2 tablespoons BBQ sauce; set aside in the refrigerator. According to the book, the BBQ sauce is described as one's "favorite BBQ sauce".

I did not find pizza sizes at the CPK website but the book calls for a 9-inch size. Copycat recipes seem to call for the same size, although there is also now a 7-inch size for children.

Peter

Offline Pod4477

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Re: California Pizza Kitchen Dough?
« Reply #9 on: January 27, 2019, 12:47:11 AM »

Id suggest 11-inch pizzas.  The BBQ sauce is completely up to you, but I used it on the crust, like tomato sauce.  Precooked chicken strips worked fine when I tried it.  If I remember correctly, I think I just added a bit of oil and black pepper to it.

Thank you.  I love using sauce on the crust as you get that nice browning from it.  I add black pepper as well, and oil is a good idea.

Pod4477,

I can only speak to what I have read about the CPK BBQ chicken pizza in the CPK cookbook and online searches.

As for the chicken used to make the BBQ chicken pizza, the cookbook calls for 10 ounces of boneless skinless chicken breasts, cut into 1/4-inch cubes. The chicken is cooked in a large frying pan in olive oil over medium-high heat until just cooked, 5 to 6 minutes. The cooked chicken is then set aside in the refrigerator until chilled through. Once chilled, coat the chicken with 2 tablespoons BBQ sauce; set aside in the refrigerator. According to the book, the BBQ sauce is described as one's "favorite BBQ sauce".

I did not find pizza sizes at the CPK website but the book calls for a 9-inch size. Copycat recipes seem to call for the same size, although there is also now a 7-inch size for children.

Peter

Thank you.  That sounds very similar to what I saw, but I saw strips sometimes, and cubes other times.  The coating of the BBQ sauce is something I saw as well.  I've been really liking The Shed Southern Sweet BBQ sauce on it.  It's one of the best BBQ sauces, but I've also been making my own sweet BBQ sauce for Boston Baked Beans.  The fact that the book has both sizes makes me feel good about them saying 9", since they seem to be a stickler for details. 

So now I wonder if I should enter 9 or 11 inch pizza diameter into the pizza dough calculator.  Also, I've been experimenting with chicken.  I find that pressure cooking the chicken seems to make it more tender, and I may try brining it to make it even more tender.   I also found that I enjoy adding the BBQ sauced chicken to the pizza halfway through the cook or even after the cook.  It may not meld with the cheese as well or at all, but it helps it not dry out.  I really don't like fried chicken that is baked after, but plain chicken seems to be ok in the oven.

This is the calculation I came up with using jsaras' post.  No bowl residue compensation and I used IDY and Regular/Fine Sea Salt.  I'll use all-purpose flour as I've read that is what they use.

9-inch:
Flour (100%):    108.34 g  |  3.82 oz | 0.24 lbs
Water (62.1%):    67.28 g  |  2.37 oz | 0.15 lbs
IDY (0.39%):    0.42 g | 0.01 oz | 0 lbs | 0.14 tsp | 0.05 tbsp
Salt (2.41%):    2.61 g | 0.09 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.47 tsp | 0.16 tbsp
Olive Oil (3.90%):    4.23 g | 0.15 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.94 tsp | 0.31 tbsp
Sugar (2.67%):    2.89 g | 0.1 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.73 tsp | 0.24 tbsp
Total (171.47%):   185.77 g | 6.55 oz | 0.41 lbs | TF = 0.103

11-inch:
Flour (100%):    161.84 g  |  5.71 oz | 0.36 lbs
Water (62.1%):    100.5 g  |  3.54 oz | 0.22 lbs
IDY (0.39%):    0.63 g | 0.02 oz | 0 lbs | 0.21 tsp | 0.07 tbsp
Salt (2.41%):    3.9 g | 0.14 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.7 tsp | 0.23 tbsp
Olive Oil (3.90%):    6.31 g | 0.22 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.4 tsp | 0.47 tbsp
Sugar (2.67%):    4.32 g | 0.15 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.08 tsp | 0.36 tbsp
Total (171.47%):   277.5 g | 9.79 oz | 0.61 lbs | TF = 0.103
« Last Edit: January 27, 2019, 12:58:06 AM by Pod4477 »

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