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Author Topic: Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?  (Read 4409 times)

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Offline dmaclaren

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Trying again today.  Trying 90% with more yeast and 85%  more yeast.  I watched the videos again and the dough just is more firm and able to hold it's structure than out 90%'s

Don't get me wrong, I like the flavor and texture but lets see what 80% does.  then if I like I can shoot for the 85%.


Don.

Offline moosebytes

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I made one yesterday, was not real happy.  Used previous formula but mixed it shorter time and less resting between.  Was a little too dense, but great chew.  Too much sauce too.

still, I don't  get that pillow dough they seem to get, ever in the process


It's a lot of work so it's disappointing when you don't get the results you were hoping for.  :(  My dough isn't as billowy as theirs either. I don't plan to try again until the weather warms up here. I'm sticking with the 90% hydration, but may try more yeast next time.
Donna

Offline dmaclaren

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yeah, it is hard when it fails.  I need to try some bread forums too for advise and get some info on the ability to get so able to hold up to touching, flipping while rising.


I need to go bribe a worker in the place, ya know and hang out the back door and catch them with a couple hundred in my hand :)
Don.

Offline moosebytes

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yeah, it is hard when it fails.  I need to try some bread forums too for advise and get some info on the ability to get so able to hold up to touching, flipping while rising.


I need to go bribe a worker in the place, ya know and hang out the back door and catch them with a couple hundred in my hand.
It seems like the process is a lot like making ciabatta. Itís tricky. You want to keep the bubbles, but you donít want the top to puff up and separate from the bottom. I make a lot of bread, and would recommend King Arthur and Cook's Illustrated (America's Test Kitchen).


If all else fails, I think a bribe is in order.  ;)







Donna

Offline dmaclaren

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Two failed attempts today so I tested my IDY.  I freeze it and don't allow it to thaw, I take what I need and return.  I do this because I bought it in bulk and it's good IDY.  I put a teaspoon IDY, some sugar in some warm water and it did well, so I don't feel it's the yeast.


The structure doesn't  hold, it just spreads and fails form.  I will try again using some tucking to see if I can get it to hold up.  if you check the vid in first page, you can see the balls before they are elongated and are holding shape like it's 60% hydration dough and no wear near this 90%


Don.

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Offline moosebytes

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Two failed attempts today so I tested my IDY.  I freeze it and don't allow it to thaw, I take what I need and return.  I do this because I bought it in bulk and it's good IDY.  I put a teaspoon IDY, some sugar in some warm water and it did well, so I don't feel it's the yeast.


The structure doesn't  hold, it just spreads and fails form.  I will try again using some tucking to see if I can get it to hold up.  if you check the vid in first page, you can see the balls before they are elongated and are holding shape like it's 60% hydration dough and no wear near this 90%
If your yeast is stored in the freezer, it will last indefinitely. I swear by SAF Instant Yeast. I buy the 1-lb. package, and keep a working supply (Ĺ cup or so) in a jar in the fridge. I vacuum seal the rest, and keep it in the freezer. I make enough bread that it's inconvenient to have to dig through the freezer every time.


I think the dough has to have enough gluten structure to hold in all the air bubbles. How to develop that is the kicker. If you decrease the hydration, I think you'll lose the light billowy texture.


Sure wish I could figure out the secret.


Donna

Offline dmaclaren

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yeah, the secret.  Because those on the table, pre rectangle, look to have nice structure.   

And, since they are hand mixing it, how much are they doing.....

Don.

Offline dmaclaren

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Don.

Offline moosebytes

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Thanks for the link. I've seen this one before, and just watched it again. I think it's the best video I've seen on shaping high-hydration dough. :chef:
Donna

Offline dmaclaren

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I did another one, not sure I will have tme to bake it off.   I did a lot of mixing to get the gluten to form.  It's holding up better and I think I will try 85% hydration on next go.   But I like this one more with the 2 4  minute mix with paddle attachment on 10 minute rest   stay tuned


Don.

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Offline moosebytes

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I did another one, not sure I will have tme to bake it off.   I did a lot of mixing to get the gluten to form.  It's holding up better and I think I will try 85% hydration on next go.   But I like this one more with the 2 4  minute mix with paddle attachment on 10 minute rest   stay tuned
Was this one 90% hydration? Did you knead twice for 4 minutes each time with a 10 minute rest in between? If you have a KA mixer, did you use speed #2?


It sounds promising.
Donna

Offline dmaclaren

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it was  mixed, 4 minutes, rested 10 minutes then mixed again 4 minutes in a KA #2 and with paddle

It held up better but not like theirs.  So, going for 85% with a fold after 1.5 hour.  then 45 min rest then try to do their 10 min degas flip.

I liked the sauce I did.  can whole tomatoes, blended, 1/2 tsp garlic gran, 1 tsp salt, 1.5 tsp sugar, cooked high for 5 minutes.  I thought it was going to taste thin and raw but it was perfect, I was surprised.


1/4 baking sheet
Flour (KABF): 100%      390   
Water: 88%                  343   
IDY: 2%                          8   
Salt: 2%                         8   
Oil: 2%                           8   
Sugar: 2%                      8     
(water and oil = 90%)
« Last Edit: June 01, 2019, 07:03:22 AM by dmaclaren »
Don.

Offline moosebytes

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it was  mixed, 4 minutes, rested 10 minutes then mixed again 4 minutes in a KA #2 and with paddle

It held up better but not like theirs.  So, going for 85% with a fold after 1.5 hour.  then 45 min rest then try to do their 10 min degas flip.

I liked the sauce I did.  can whole tomatoes, blended, 1/2 tsp garlic gran, 1 tsp salt, 1.5 tsp sugar, cooked high for 5 minutes.  I thought it was going to taste thin and raw but it was perfect, I was surprised.


1/4 baking sheet
Flour (KABF): 100%      390   
Water: 88%                  343   
IDY: 2%                          8   
Salt: 2%                         8   
Oil: 2%                           8   
Sugar: 2%                      8     
(water and oil = 90%)


The pizza looks good. It sounds like you were fairly happy with it. Was it doughy at all in the middle?
Donna

Offline stiks47

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Iím impressed they can hand mix a 90% dough. I think I may join in this madness  ;D. That dough has impressive structure that I could never replicate by hand so I will attempt with the mixer.

Offline dmaclaren

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"and letting the dough rise five times over the course of its three-hour fermentation."

Okay, I really need to break this down.  IN the videos you can see the flip, degas, and cover.  One woman in the vid said for "10 minutes"  so in 3 hours, there could be 3 10 minute flips but I would think that last one is more as it's in the pan and they want it to the rim.  Then there needs to be more spring for the over to take it over the rim and be able to hold up to the sauce and cheese and not flatten out.


5 = -1 pan rise, then 4 flip and covers, yes? 
4 = 40 minutes.

40 Minutes =   flip, degas, 10min rise, flip, degas rise, 10min, flip, degas rise, 10min, flip, degas, 10min rise,
10 - 20 min = Fold and pan rise, sauce, cheese, salt, oregano, oil, bake 15 - 18 MIN @ 550

This is 50 - 60 min, so are we thinking 2 hour to hydrate, mix, first rise?
Is 10 min is enough for some rise in the dough between the degas flip?

Now the Gluten formation and Yeast usage.  How much gluten is needed, in the pic on one link he pulls on dough to show elastic but no window pane gluten  talk here on this one, what does this mean?

Do we need a large % of yeast to get this 5 times rise?  if yes, do we need more Sugar?


I went from producing back to step 1 with more  questions.

Don




Don.

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Offline dmaclaren

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I am trying an 80%. Combine,
I am trying an 80%.

Combine, rest 10 min

add oil, mix 2 min rest 10 min

mix 4 min rest 1.5 - hour

then start the punch downs.

 

We shall see
Don.

Offline dmaclaren

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Fail.  Just won't rise in 80 degree proofer, wonder if yeast is junk

Flour (KABF): 100%       390   
Water: 78%                304-   
IDY: 1.25%                 4.8    -    
Salt: 2%                    7.8   
Oil: 2%                      7.8   
Sugar: 2%                    7.8 
Water and oil = 80%

no ability to hold up at all, went to blob and in 3 hours very little rise.  Have kept yeast in freezer too and only take out to pull what I need then back in freezer.   Going to make some bread with over night biga to see if it's still good, I know that recipe and can judge from that
Don.

Offline dmaclaren

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Maybe I need over 2% yeast in this.

Don.

Offline dmaclaren

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I messed it up, balled again, and let rise  long time 

Almost  the same as SLAB but failed process on forming.
Don.

Offline moosebytes

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I messed it up, balled again, and let rise  long time 

Almost  the same as SLAB but failed process on forming.
What did you mess up? This looks pretty darned good to me. Is this what you posted above with 1.25% IDY?
Donna

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