Ok, what's different

[CDennis]

First post, but been making pies for about a year.  Follow the typical NY style:
KABF
60% hydration
1% ADY (proofed before adding)
1.5% salt
4% EVOO
Do it all in KA mixer...again, pretty well dialed in.  Standard 90 min room temp rise than overnight in 'fridge.  I like it, but...

I broke down yesterday and bough a dough ball from my favorite pizzeria.  You can see the obvious differences.  Mine has tons of bubbles; theirs has none.  I can smell the yeast in mine early and scents of alcohol from fermentation afterwards on mine...can't detect any on theirs.
Mine tends to pull back as I stretch out (after coming back to room temp), theirs is much more workable.
I'm not sure I can taste any EVOO in theirs...minimal if so.
I think theirs has a cornmeal coating.  Prob can't see in the pic but it's there. 

So what's the deal?
Theirs tastes (and performs from a workability standpoint) better than mine...uncooked and cooked.   
Short of asking them for their recipe (which they might give me; I'm pretty friendly with the owner but the EGO won't allow that!), how can I duplicate?

Suggestions?  Thanks in advance.

Chris

[Rolls]

For starters, you're putting a lot of yeast and giving it a good boost by fermenting the dough at RT for 90 minutes before going to the fridge. You don't mention the temperature of the dough after mixing which can also be a big factor here. Olive oil is expensive, so the pizzeria probably isn't using any, or at least not in the amounts you're using (4%) which is enough to account for the difference in taste.  The degree of extensibility of a dough depends on many things, but usually it has to do with giving the gluten matrix sufficient time to relax.

Just some points to ponder until others chime in.


Rolls

edit:  didn't mean to post in the Dough Doctor's forum until he gets a chance to reply first. Apologies to the OP and Tom.

[CDennis]

For starters, you're putting a lot of yeast and giving it a good boost by fermenting the dough at RT for 90 minutes before going to the fridge. You don't mention the temperature of the dough after mixing which can also be a big factor here. Olive oil is expensive, so the pizzeria probably isn't using any, or at least in the amounts you're using (4%) which is enough to account for the difference in taste.  The degree of extensibility of a dough depends on many things, but usually it has to do with giving the gluten matrix sufficient time to relax.

Just some points to ponder until others chime in.


Rolls

edit:  didn't mean to post in the Dough Doctor's forum until he gets a chance to reply first. Apologies to the OP and Tom.

I never thought to measure the temperature but I just use RO water out of the reservoir under my sink so it's probably just at normal room temp (70F / 21C).  I proof the yeast at 100F but the volume is insignificant...just a few grams from the 60% total.  The 90 min rise is just in my microwave (off, of course) so that too is at the same room temp.

Any predicted differences in yeast (IDY vs ADY?)  Brand difference?  I just use a fresh jar of fleishmans (sp?).
RO water vs. tap?  I live in Indiana with hard water so it's softened (remove calcium) and RO filtered (taste...well...makes it tasteless, the way I like it!).

Thanks again!

[The Dough Doctor]

The interaction between the byproducts of fermentation and the gluten forming proteins in the flour is what's responsible for the rheological properties of the dough (the way is stretches and handles in general), not fermentation in itself. This is why a short time dough can have a lot of fermentation but still exhibit a lot of dough memory. The dough that came from the pizzeria was, in all probability, cold fermented for 2-days or more which, if managed properly, would give the dough pretty decent handling properties. It's not so much the dough formulation that makes the difference, it's how they are put together and managed that makes the biggest difference. Like I used to tell my students, brick castles and brick priveys are all made using the exact same ingredients, it's how you put them together that determines the finished product.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

[CDennis]

Good feedback...thanks.
I reduced yeast to 0.33%, added 2.0% table sugar, and went straight to 'fridge...and I darn near duplicated my "favorite" pizzeria.
Good for me, bad for them (and their sales).

Thanks again!