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Author Topic: Ardore Natural Gas Hookup Question(s)  (Read 625 times)

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Offline champignon

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Ardore Natural Gas Hookup Question(s)
« on: February 09, 2019, 06:11:54 PM »
I bought my Ardore with BOTH the propane and natural gas combustion systems; the propane set up was installed on delivery.  Of course, I paid quite a bit extra for this, and it was only feasible because the nat gas burner and assembly was able to be packaged within the oven cavity at initial shipment.  I have used the oven on propane already.  I am thinking of swapping out the propane system in favor of using Nat gas for the rest of the winter.  Here are my questions:

I already have a natural gas line to a deck off of the kitchen which powers my natural gas Weber BBQ.  It is connected via a quick connect to the gas grill.  Normally, I turn the gas off at the shutoff valve that is before the quick connect when the gas grill is not in use.

Ultimately it would be nice to have a double quick connect system with one connector to the grill and the other to the ardore, so they could both be plugged in at the same time, whether or not they could both be used simultaneously I don't know, which I would guess is a question of the gas pressure (about 7 WC).  In any event I ought to be able to use each appliance by itself.  I have attached some pictures showing the quick connect valve currently present for the grill, plus the gas line that will hook up to the ardore side by side with the gas line/male part of quick connect to the grill. 

Initially I would be happy just getting the needed parts to connect the Ardore up to my natural gas quick connect, but I'm not knowledgeable about this sort of stuff and haven't dealt with it in years.  I believe that I will need an extension natural gas hose as the included hose with the pizza oven is very short.  In addition, I will need appropriate (male) quick connect parts.  I've taken some pictures which are below.

Thanks in advance to anyone who can point me in the right direction in terms of the parts I need to buy and where I might buy them; is there some quick and easy way to turn the single quick connect female coupling coming out of the gas pipe in the wall into a duplex connector that could service both the grill and the Ardore?

Thanks very much.

ken

Offline tkmcmichael

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Re: Ardore Natural Gas Hookup Question(s)
« Reply #1 on: February 09, 2019, 09:01:25 PM »
I have the exact same set up with my Ardore and Weber grill. See this post for what my set up looks like outside. https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=45366.msg561764#msg561764

I bought the following natural gas hose that would connect to the back of the Ardore and the quick connect in the back yard. DOZYANT 12 Feet Natural Gas Grill... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01CLJFSIG?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share

I have not tried to run both at the same because I am not sure how that would hook up. But it is fairly simple to connect/disconnect the appropriate hose based on what I am cooking.

I used my oven tonight and each time gets better and better.

Offline champignon

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Re: Ardore Natural Gas Hookup Question(s)
« Reply #2 on: February 09, 2019, 10:08:28 PM »
I have the exact same set up with my Ardore and Weber grill. See this post for what my set up looks like outside. https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=45366.msg561764#msg561764

I bought the following natural gas hose that would connect to the back of the Ardore and the quick connect in the back yard. DOZYANT 12 Feet Natural Gas Grill... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01CLJFSIG?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share

I have not tried to run both at the same because I am not sure how that would hook up. But it is fairly simple to connect/disconnect the appropriate hose based on what I am cooking.

I used my oven tonight and each time gets better and better.

Nice looking pizzas!

I'm concerned about the size of the fittings; when you look at this picture I included of the female quick part of the quick connect, it looks to me like I see "1/2" which would lead me to believe that I have a 1/2" fitting at the gas line quick connect.  I'm not sure what size the hose and fitting is that I received with the oven; is it 3/8" or 1/2"?

Will I need some sort of adapter or to choose a different diameter of hose?

Thanks.

Offline foreplease

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Re: Ardore Natural Gas Hookup Question(s)
« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2019, 01:57:45 AM »
Turn off shut off valve and remove that quick coupler apart just above the valve. Before taking it to Lowe's with you, see if the end/fitting that fits your grill also fits the Ardore. If so, measure how long the extension needs to be to reach from the disconnect point to the Adore. You will need a tee somewhere close to where the quick coupler disconmects now. You probably will not find a tee with a QC. Choose from among the parts Lowes stocks - get someone in plumbing section to help you come up with parts to make a branch that will install where the QC above the valve is now. It may work out that you are traveling from the new tee to each of your 2 appliances in shielded flexinle gas hose you get at Lowes. They sell them in 1,2,3, and 4 foot length with fittings already pressed on each end. Other lengths my be available.  When you get home, do as much of the work on your work bench, or far away from where there is still gas being contained by the shut off valve. Test shut off valve. Confirm that the fittings on the 2 news hoses theead onto your oven and grill fittings before assembling your new manifold, for lack of a better word. Assemble eberything such that there are no open ends. Use the recommended type of Teflon tape. I think the plastic roll is yellow for gas rather than the more common blue for water lines. Test all connections for leaks (gas needs to be on) with soapy water bedore lighting anything. It is eqsier than I made it sound :) Think of it as a controlled series of leaks. Good luck.

-Tony
“Pizza is bread, after all.” - Brian Spangler

Offline champignon

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Re: Ardore Natural Gas Hookup Question(s)
« Reply #4 on: February 10, 2019, 04:12:29 PM »
Turn off shut off valve and remove that quick coupler apart just above the valve. Before taking it to Lowe's with you, see if the end/fitting that fits your grill also fits the Ardore. If so, measure how long the extension needs to be to reach from the disconnect point to the Adore. You will need a tee somewhere close to where the quick coupler disconmects now. You probably will not find a tee with a QC. Choose from among the parts Lowes stocks - get someone in plumbing section to help you come up with parts to make a branch that will install where the QC above the valve is now. It may work out that you are traveling from the new tee to each of your 2 appliances in shielded flexinle gas hose you get at Lowes. They sell them in 1,2,3, and 4 foot length with fittings already pressed on each end. Other lengths my be available.  When you get home, do as much of the work on your work bench, or far away from where there is still gas being contained by the shut off valve. Test shut off valve. Confirm that the fittings on the 2 news hoses theead onto your oven and grill fittings before assembling your new manifold, for lack of a better word. Assemble eberything such that there are no open ends. Use the recommended type of Teflon tape. I think the plastic roll is yellow for gas rather than the more common blue for water lines. Test all connections for leaks (gas needs to be on) with soapy water bedore lighting anything. It is eqsier than I made it sound :) Think of it as a controlled series of leaks. Good luck.

Thanks for the very logical and exhaustive post, which I would follow except that I'm leaving town early tomorrow and will be gone for almost 2 weeks.  By coincidence I'm having a dinner party tonight at my house where everything we are eating is going to be grilled and I can't take any risks with screwing up the Weber :-)  I live in a rural location, with no good hardware store nearby, and it's easier for me to deal with hardware issues when I am in the "big city," which is where I am going tomorrow.

I do have some additional information which may seal it, however.  I had another BBQ there before the Weber.  Inside of the Weber cabinet was another old gas line that was used for the old grill.  It also has a quick connect which is obviously smaller than the one coming from the Weber Grill.  I have included a picture of these male quick connects side by side.  The old one is way smaller than the female end of the connect now attached to the gas piping coming out of the house, after the shut off valve.

If you look at the close up picture of the gas piping and shut off valve coming out of the house (last photo) it looks like they went up a size in the fittings to get to the new quick connect.  I don't know why the appliance guy who hooked up the Weber for me did that, except that maybe the Weber's fitting was bigger, or these were the things he had in his truck.

I am assuming, perhaps incorrectly, that there are only 2 common sizes of gas fittings that one would put a quick connect onto for a BBQ grill; 3/8" and 1/2".  My guess is that the old grill used a 3/8" fitting and the newer (not new) Weber uses a 1/2"

In any event, I have the tubing and regulator for the Ardore, which I plan to take to the big city on my trip tomorrow, so we'll know what plugs into that at the Lowes I'll go to.  The only question will be what is the quick connect size I need on the male end to go into the female end I already have.  I'll take the old smaller tubing and fitting with me as well which should make it obvious what I have installed at my house now.

Unless there is some super simple way for me to turn the single quick connect female end of the gas piping after the shut off, into a duplex quick connect (which I doubt is the case) I'm probably not going to do any extensive surgery on the gas line myself.  If I find that swapping quick connects gets to be too big of a hassle, I'll probably pay someone who knows what he is doing to come over and do it before I blow up my house :-)

So at this point I think I will confine myself to trying to get tubing and a quick connect that will attach to the Ardore, that I can plug into my existing quick connect coming from the wall.  I think I'm looking for a 1/2" fitting on the male side, and then whatever fits into the Ardore's regulator, which will be pretty obvious once in the store.

Thanks so much for your suggestions, and if you have any more, please fire away!
« Last Edit: February 10, 2019, 04:15:39 PM by champignon »

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Offline champignon

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Re: Ardore Natural Gas Hookup Question(s)
« Reply #5 on: February 10, 2019, 04:42:19 PM »
I have the exact same set up with my Ardore and Weber grill. See this post for what my set up looks like outside. https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=45366.msg561764#msg561764

I bought the following natural gas hose that would connect to the back of the Ardore and the quick connect in the back yard. DOZYANT 12 Feet Natural Gas Grill... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01CLJFSIG?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share

I have not tried to run both at the same because I am not sure how that would hook up. But it is fairly simple to connect/disconnect the appropriate hose based on what I am cooking.

I used my oven tonight and each time gets better and better.

Thanks very much for the information!

Does anyone here know if there is only one type of Natural Gas Quick Connect system (other than size differences, as there appears to be at least 3/8"and 1/2"versions) and if there is more than one system, are the various ones compatible?

Offline tkmcmichael

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Ardore Natural Gas Hookup Question(s)
« Reply #6 on: February 11, 2019, 07:54:11 AM »
In doing my searching online there are many brands of quick connects and from what I found as long as you get the correct size they are interchangeable. I know my Weber grill has a 3/8” quick connect so i searched amazon for the same size. In doing that search there is also the 1/2” quick connect out there and I am not sure why they went with the bigger size in your case. Maybe it has to do with the elevation you are at?
« Last Edit: February 11, 2019, 07:55:48 AM by tkmcmichael »

Offline champignon

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Re: Ardore Natural Gas Hookup Question(s)
« Reply #7 on: February 11, 2019, 11:34:25 AM »
In doing my searching online there are many brands of quick connects and from what I found as long as you get the correct size they are interchangeable. I know my Weber grill has a 3/8” quick connect so i searched amazon for the same size. In doing that search there is also the 1/2” quick connect out there and I am not sure why they went with the bigger size in your case. Maybe it has to do with the elevation you are at?

Thanks for your kind response.

If my observations are correct, it looks like the gas pipe coming out of the wall on the deck is 3/8" that has been stepped up to a 1/2" quick connect.  I bought the grill and had it installed in 2011, according to the purchase receipt.  I already had the gas hose from the old grill, which was 3/8" but was by that point 14 years old.  The grill might have been shipped with a gas hose, in which case it was 1/2", or perhaps the installer decided that the old hose was too old to reuse, and all he had on his truck was a 1/2 inch hose; I doubt this however since the total charge, including the house call, was something like $75 for the hookup, which could not have included very much hardware.

I have a couple of additional questions, which perhaps you or someone else can answer, which may be interesting to other users as well:

(1) Would it be safe to get a short 1/2" hose with 1/2" male quick connect, that then goes into other fittings to become a duplex quick connect?  The hose could be as short as 6", I would think.  Then there would be two quick connects and the BBQ grill plus the Ardore could be plugged in at the same time?  There would still be the shut off valve below and I would use that when neither the grill nor the Ardore were in use.

(2) The Ardore ships with a pressure regulator that appears to be 5 WC inches if I read it correctly.  The gas coming out of my wall is at around 7 WC inches.  My Weber BBQ grill does not appear to have any sort of regulator on it, unless it is hidden somewhere in the internals.  Given that I live at almost 6000 ft. of elevation, and that combustion is ~20% less efficient at my altitude, would it make sense to consider bypassing the regulator and just getting another piece of tubing/piping that would screw directly into the Ardore and provide more gas pressure?  I could see where this could go either way; it might provide too much gas for the oxygen present in the air, exacerbating the poor combustion at altitude, or it could help.  The presence of the regulator on the Ardore COULD possibly make it feasible to use both the Weber and the Ardore simultaneously, as it will restrict the gas going to the Ardore.  I never run the BBQ grill on full power; doing so just incinerates the food, as it gets too hot.  So I am usually restricting the gas flow to the grill burners at the burner controls anyway.

Any comments would be very much appreciated and assuming that others are in a similar situation as regards already having a gas line or planning a gas line for more than just the Ardore, this could help others as well.

Offline barryvabeach

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Re: Ardore Natural Gas Hookup Question(s)
« Reply #8 on: February 11, 2019, 09:31:15 PM »
First, is your Weber a Summit?  The Summit is the high end Weber and requires the larger disconnect.  That would be why they stepped up the size of the quick disconnect.

Second,  I don't see a problem creating a T , and having two disconnects connected to it, one to the Weber , one to the Ardore.  Before I got my Ardore,  I would have used soapy water to check all connections, and probably would still do so, though I bought a very inexpensive combustible gas sniffer, so I would use that as well to make sure everything is tight.  I didn't follow you on the short hose, I would use brass fittings. 

As to the Weber, my guess is that it has a regulator in the body of the grill, and would be stunned if it didn't

I wouldn't try to bypass the regulator for the Ardore.  While you house is around 7 inches of WC,  my understanding is that amount varies from time to time, and that is why you have a regulator at the appliance to be certain the pressure is correct.

Offline champignon

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Re: Ardore Natural Gas Hookup Question(s)
« Reply #9 on: February 12, 2019, 05:47:29 PM »
I drove to the "big city" yesterday, and this morning I did a tour various stores that might be able to solve my gas hookup dilemma. 

First I went to Lowes, as suggested above.  Either they have more applicable stuff seasonally (now not being the season) or they are reducing stock and choices on this sort of stuff.  I spoke with a guy from the plumbing department who showed me what they had, and then he walked me over to the grill dept and I met with both him and a lady from the grill dept.  Bottom line is that they do not (any longer, or now) sell natural gas quick connects, nor quick connects mounted on hoses.  They suggested that I go to a particular plumbing and heating supply store.  I went there, and the very helpful employee there told me that they don't have what I need, but he directed me to a specialty hose and connector store.

I went to the connector and hose store, and they have everything needed, were very helpful, but bring your wallet!

We discussed various alternatives.  The quick connect sets cost about $52 each, and I needed two.  The hose and the other fittings were likewise NOT cheap.  They did offer to assemble everything, which I let them do.

I chose a way of doing this which requires no pipe surgery or manipulation of plumbing parts myself.  This was not the cheapest way to do this, nor the simplest.  In the end it cost almost $200.  I did avoid (1) having to work on the gas line fittings myself, and, (2) paying for a service call to have an appliance repair or other tradesman come to my house to install something.  Plus, this contraption could conceivably be used elsewhere, were I to decided to do so in the future.  If I had hired someone to come to my house to do this, there would still have been the cost for most of these parts, so that would not have been cheap, either. 

Obviously, most of the cost of doing this comes down to doing a complicated one-off adapter.  Were you able to buy this whole assembly, made in China, it probably would have cost a small fraction of what I paid.

The first photo shows a 2 foot Natural Gas hose with a male quick connect on one end and the other end having a duplex/splitter, with a couple of female quick connects on it.  The second photo is a close up of the splitter assembly.  The third photo shows the hose with fitting to screw into the Ardore's regulator, which has a male quick connect at the other end.  We originally considered doing this without any hose, and simply mounting the splitter plus the quick connects directly on a male quick connect to plug into the gas line's quick connect.  When feeling how heavy the whole set of brass fittings were, I decided that it would be better to have a hose long enough that the pile of fittings could rest on the deck and not have all that weight on the gas outlet pipe.

This setup will enable me to (plug and play) hook up both the Weber BBQ grill and the Ardore to the gas line simultaneously.  When and if I remove the Ardore from the setup (such as in the summer if I end up using it with its propane assembly elsewhere), I will simply remove this contraption from the gas outlet on the deck and plug the Weber grill directly back in, by itself.  I will use the on off valve on the gas line whenever neither appliance is being used.

« Last Edit: February 12, 2019, 05:58:43 PM by champignon »

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Offline champignon

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Re: Ardore Natural Gas Hookup Question(s)
« Reply #10 on: February 22, 2019, 12:57:43 PM »
As an update, I have returned home from my trip, and I have tested the quick connect apparatus that I had assembled last week.  I unplugged the gas grill from the quick connect, plugged in my splitter contraption, and ran the gas grill off it successfully.  I then removed the propane burner and assembly from the Ardore and replaced it with the natural gas assembly and burner that I had purchased separately.  This was fairly easy to do and everything fit in nicely.

I have yet to hook the Ardore into the splitter assembly and to do a leak test of all of the fittings.  Any issue that would present itself from this stage on would simply reflect a faulty assembly, either on the part of the hose and fittings store I used to make the splitter, bad fittings or sealant, etc.  The concept works, even if it was more expensive than it needed to be.  So this is one way that another owner might choose to hook up his natural gas Ardore along with a pre-existing gas grill, to a gas quick connect if he or she already has a gas grill hooked up before purchasing the Ardore, and wants to avoid having to do surgery on the gas fittings.

Offline tkmcmichael

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Re: Ardore Natural Gas Hookup Question(s)
« Reply #11 on: February 22, 2019, 03:41:17 PM »
I will be curious to see how well it works when/if you try to use both at the same time. It is definitely convenient to not have to unhook one when you want to use the other.

Offline champignon

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Re: Ardore Natural Gas Hookup Question(s)
« Reply #12 on: February 22, 2019, 05:07:48 PM »
I will be curious to see how well it works when/if you try to use both at the same time. It is definitely convenient to not have to unhook one when you want to use the other.

It is unlikely that I would be using both at the same time for an extended period of time; perhaps if I was more into entertaining large groups of people at home, that would be different.  In the case of my own concurrent use, it would be way more likely that pizza would be served as a first course, and that the grill would be used for the main course.

I have no experience using the Ardore on natural gas being as my use of it so far has been on propane.  I would expect that the natural gas would be more efficient, especially now when it is very cold outside.  Having seen the amount of flame produced with natural gas, it appears to have a fuel draw way below my 4-burner Weber gas grill.

The Weber gas grill pre-heats very quickly, needing less than 10 minutes before full on use.  I generally use the Weber at about 1/2 power on the burner adjustment knobs, because it gets too hot at the high setting and meat is incinerated when cooked at such a high temperature.  Putting these two observations together, e.g. that the Ardore seems to consume a lot less gas (or at least has way less evidence of flames) than the Weber grill, and the fact that I don't use the Weber at anything approaching full power in normal use, I'm fairly certain that both could be used simultaneously without issue, at least without any issues of whether there is enough gas flow or pressure to support both appliances simultaneously.

I should get a better idea in the coming days with actual testing.

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