A D V E R T I S E M E N T


Author Topic: Instant Sourdough Yeast  (Read 3001 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Whisky

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 316
  • Location: Pingree, ND
  • I Love Pizza!
Instant Sourdough Yeast
« on: March 26, 2019, 10:16:56 AM »
I found something "new" in the store the other day:

https://redstaryeast.com/red-star-platinum-instant-sourdough-yeast/

Not sure how new it is, or if it's any good at all? Anybody try it with pizza? How would you go about determining the amount to use? It's an 18g pack that they say replaces a 7g pack of IDY. So essentially just uses about 2.5 times the amount of sourdough yeast in place of a known IDY formula?

Offline The Dough Doctor

  • Tom Lehmann
  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 6351
  • Location: Manhattan, KS
    • Dough Doctor
Re: Instant Sourdough Yeast
« Reply #1 on: March 26, 2019, 10:42:34 AM »
From the looks of it I'm guessing that it's nothing more than IDY with an added inactive white sour for flavor. We have been doing this for decades in the wholesale baking industry as well as in some segments of the frozen dough and frozen pizza industries. Red Star manufactures both of these items so it would only be natural that they combine them.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

Offline TXCraig1

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 27223
  • Location: Houston, TX
  • Pizza is not bread.
    • Craig's Neapolitan Garage
Re: Instant Sourdough Yeast
« Reply #2 on: March 26, 2019, 11:19:19 AM »
From the looks of it I'm guessing that it's nothing more than IDY with an added inactive white sour for flavor. We have been doing this for decades in the wholesale baking industry as well as in some segments of the frozen dough and frozen pizza industries. Red Star manufactures both of these items so it would only be natural that they combine them.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

That was my first thought when I saw the post, but reading the description at the site makes me think it may actually include a viable SD culture.
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, baker's yeast when we must, but always great pizza."  
Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Offline parallei

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2833
  • Location: Denver, CO
Re: Instant Sourdough Yeast
« Reply #3 on: March 26, 2019, 11:24:20 AM »
I was given a few packs at the Pizza Expo.

Ingredients are :

"Cultured Rye Flour [rye flour, stater culture (Lactobaccillus)], Yeast, Soy Flour, Ascorbic Acid, Sorbitan Monosterate, Wheat Flour, Enzymes."

As far as I can tell, the (Yeast, Ascorbic Acid, Sorbitan Monosterate, Ascorbic Acid) is IDY.  Maybe the enzymes are the same as added to wheat flour in place of malted flour.

I tried it is an overnight no knead bread dough and used twice as much as I would have straight IDY.  That was still a pretty low dose.  I noticed a mild flavor difference, but like I said, it was a pretty low dose.  Soon, I'll try it in a 24 hour room temp pizza dough and see how it stacks up against my starter.   




Offline TXCraig1

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 27223
  • Location: Houston, TX
  • Pizza is not bread.
    • Craig's Neapolitan Garage
Re: Instant Sourdough Yeast
« Reply #4 on: March 26, 2019, 11:38:09 AM »
Assuming there is viable SD yeast/LAB in the mix, I would imagine that the ratios is set so that a full pack of the product performs identically in terms of rise time as a full pack of straight IDY.  Since the growth rates of (most) SD cultures and IDY are different, you might get some interesting results using it in low doses at RT.
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, baker's yeast when we must, but always great pizza."  
Craig's Neapolitan Garage

A D V E R T I S E M E N T


Offline Whisky

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 316
  • Location: Pingree, ND
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: Instant Sourdough Yeast
« Reply #5 on: March 26, 2019, 11:49:51 AM »
On their site they say 1 pack is good for raising 1lb of flour. They don't say at what fermentation temp and time, although they do say mix with 120-130*F water. Quick rise obviously.

So, 260g NP dough balls (@ 5.58oz flour/ball) 1 pack should be good to make 3 260g NP pies (16.74 oz flour). Seems like a lot of stuff going in for 3 small pizzas.

It also says this

Quote
Since the packet contains a blend of yeast and sourdough starter, only full packets of Platinum Instant Sourdough should be used in recipes.

Offline parallei

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2833
  • Location: Denver, CO
Re: Instant Sourdough Yeast
« Reply #6 on: March 26, 2019, 11:58:53 AM »
Assuming there is viable SD yeast/LAB in the mix, I would imagine that the ratios is set so that a full pack of the product performs identically in terms of rise time as a full pack of straight IDY.  Since the growth rates of (most) SD cultures and IDY are different, you might get some interesting results using it in low doses at RT.

We'll see.

There was an International Artisan Bakery Expo (IABE) running concurrently with the Pizza Expo.  At the IABE part of the displays there were a couple of manufacturers showing their dry sourdough starters.  I'm not sure how to describe them, but basically dry mixes one would activate and then use like starter.  The thought being one wouldn't need to hassle with maintaining one's own starter.  Obviously for the commercial baker.  Lots of cool bubbling vats of stuff though!

 

Offline parallei

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2833
  • Location: Denver, CO
Re: Instant Sourdough Yeast
« Reply #7 on: March 26, 2019, 12:10:58 PM »
On their site they say 1 pack is good for raising 1lb of flour. They don't say at what fermentation temp and time, although they do say mix with 120-130*F water. Quick rise obviously.

So, 260g NP dough balls (@ 5.58oz flour/ball) 1 pack should be good to make 3 260g NP pies (16.74 oz flour). Seems like a lot of stuff going in for 3 small pizzas.

It also says this

Interesting.  It doesn't say any of that on the retail packets I was given at their booth.  Just ".....Use it in any recipe that calls for yeast."  And "Simply substitute this package for 1/4 ounce packet of Red Star Yeast".  Mine are 0.63 oz packets, so I figured use 2.5x what I'd normally use of straight IDY.  I've no idea how that ratio would effect the sourdough related ingredients, particularly at the lower yeast dosages we tend to us.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2019, 12:15:57 PM by parallei »

Offline Whisky

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 316
  • Location: Pingree, ND
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: Instant Sourdough Yeast
« Reply #8 on: April 02, 2019, 12:11:33 PM »
parallei, did you ever try the 24hr RT comparison? Anymore feedback on this? thanks

Offline parallei

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2833
  • Location: Denver, CO
Re: Instant Sourdough Yeast
« Reply #9 on: April 02, 2019, 12:45:06 PM »
parallei, did you ever try the 24hr RT comparison? Anymore feedback on this? thanks

No not yet.

A D V E R T I S E M E N T


Offline TXCraig1

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 27223
  • Location: Houston, TX
  • Pizza is not bread.
    • Craig's Neapolitan Garage
Re: Instant Sourdough Yeast
« Reply #10 on: May 18, 2019, 08:58:29 PM »
They stock this at HEB (local grocery chain) now. $0.89/pack. I bought a pack and gave it a try in bread. I made a typical lean dough. For 1000g total weight, I used half the package. I did a preferment for about 8hours at RT with 100g each of the formula flour and water. After incorporating the rest of the ingredients into a final dough, I put it in the fridge for a few days. Three if I remember right.

My first observation is that the yeast mix itself has a very strange smell that I did not care for at all. The finished poolish smelled a bit better but still a bit strange. By the time I made the dough, it had more of a smell that I'd expect in a sourdough. The baked loaf had a very nice sourdough smell and a nice mild-medium sour taste that was well beyond what I think you could ever develop with plain baker's yeast.

While it's probably not something I'd ever use for pizza unless I wanted to make a very sourdough pizza for some one-off reason, it is something I can see myself using for sourdough bread as it's a lot simpler logistically than a culture because it works well at refrigeration temps and doesn't require any care, feeding, etc.
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, baker's yeast when we must, but always great pizza."  
Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Offline quietdesperation

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2165
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: Instant Sourdough Yeast
« Reply #11 on: May 18, 2019, 09:29:17 PM »
"If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world" - the hobbit, jrr tolkien

Offline PizzAmateur

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 471
  • Location: North Alabama
  • There is nothing wrong with pizza 3 times a day.
Re: Instant Sourdough Yeast
« Reply #12 on: May 20, 2019, 12:57:37 AM »
tom l posted an overnight sourdough recipe here:
https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=57588.msg577792#msg577792

That link takes me below your recipe in that thread.

Try this: https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=57588.msg577684#msg577684

Takes you to the top of the message thread and your recipe?  I could be wrong...
« Last Edit: May 20, 2019, 01:03:26 AM by PizzAmateur »

Offline The Dough Doctor

  • Tom Lehmann
  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 6351
  • Location: Manhattan, KS
    • Dough Doctor
Re: Instant Sourdough Yeast
« Reply #13 on: May 20, 2019, 01:43:21 AM »
The "cultured rye flour" is the tip off that it's a dry, inactive sourdough material that is being added. The ingredients following it in brackets are the ingredients of the "cultured rye flour".
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

Offline TXCraig1

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 27223
  • Location: Houston, TX
  • Pizza is not bread.
    • Craig's Neapolitan Garage
Re: Instant Sourdough Yeast
« Reply #14 on: May 20, 2019, 06:38:36 AM »
The "cultured rye flour" is the tip off that it's a dry, inactive sourdough material that is being added. The ingredients following it in brackets are the ingredients of the "cultured rye flour".
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

What do you mean by "inactive?" Inactive like the yeast are inactive until hydrated or inactive like the cultured rye flour is just a flavoring and does not contain viable organisms?
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, baker's yeast when we must, but always great pizza."  
Craig's Neapolitan Garage

A D V E R T I S E M E N T


Offline PizzAmateur

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 471
  • Location: North Alabama
  • There is nothing wrong with pizza 3 times a day.
Re: Instant Sourdough Yeast
« Reply #15 on: May 20, 2019, 06:53:13 AM »
What do you mean by "inactive?" Inactive like the yeast are inactive until hydrated or inactive like the cultured rye flour is just a flavoring and does not contain viable organisms?

At least for me, it is obvious that this is just a "flavoring".  Although there may be actual SD culture that could be nurtured and revived, that is not what the post was about.

This is a fast dough, not a long fermenting dough, right?

Even I get that. ::) >:D :angel:

Offline TXCraig1

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 27223
  • Location: Houston, TX
  • Pizza is not bread.
    • Craig's Neapolitan Garage
Re: Instant Sourdough Yeast
« Reply #16 on: May 20, 2019, 07:30:24 AM »
At least for me, it is obvious that this is just a "flavoring".  Although there may be actual SD culture that could be nurtured and revived, that is not what the post was about.

This is a fast dough, not a long fermenting dough, right?

Even I get that. ::) >:D :angel:

Have you tried it?
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, baker's yeast when we must, but always great pizza."  
Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Offline PizzAmateur

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 471
  • Location: North Alabama
  • There is nothing wrong with pizza 3 times a day.
Re: Instant Sourdough Yeast
« Reply #17 on: May 20, 2019, 07:34:43 AM »
Have you tried it?

No.  Have you?

Offline TXCraig1

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 27223
  • Location: Houston, TX
  • Pizza is not bread.
    • Craig's Neapolitan Garage
Re: Instant Sourdough Yeast
« Reply #18 on: May 20, 2019, 07:41:33 AM »
No.  Have you?

Scroll up about 8 posts...
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, baker's yeast when we must, but always great pizza."  
Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Offline PizzAmateur

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 471
  • Location: North Alabama
  • There is nothing wrong with pizza 3 times a day.
Re: Instant Sourdough Yeast
« Reply #19 on: May 20, 2019, 07:48:34 AM »
Scroll up about 8 posts...

I've read the entire thread.

More than once...

Oops... I see that you did try something.

https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=56858.msg577823#msg577823
« Last Edit: May 20, 2019, 07:51:11 AM by PizzAmateur »

A D V E R T I S E M E N T