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Author Topic: Wanting to build a coal fired style outdoor pizza oven  (Read 10567 times)

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Offline Pod4477

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Re: Wanting to build a coal fired style outdoor pizza oven
« Reply #220 on: June 09, 2019, 07:04:27 PM »
I thought you were connecting the door to the angle. If you mortar over the angle, I think you lose that option. I don't know how every thing fits together. Any chance you could connect build up the angle section bu connecting a piece of flat stock steel?

I dont recall you mentioning a wood door. Wouldn't a wood door slowly smolder or burn?

Sorry, I made it confusing for sure.That was my original plan, but I'm just going to go the traditional route now, by using a removable steel door to close it off.  The wooden door would only be for residual heat.  My thought is both should maybe have a gasket, since the steel door would only be on there for residual heat as well and to cover from animals and weather.  I'd probably only need a wooden door then, but I'm just thinking rain on steel is better than wood.  Are you saying to mortar on a steel flat to the front piece of the angle iron?  That was actually my thought earlier coincidentally.  I have an extra 3/16" steel flat laying around from HD that I can cut.  I'm also thinking I'll need to use angle irons for the chimney landing area.  Do you think mortaring over angle iron prevents rust?
« Last Edit: June 09, 2019, 07:06:56 PM by Pod4477 »

Offline Jon in Albany

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Re: Wanting to build a coal fired style outdoor pizza oven
« Reply #221 on: June 09, 2019, 07:33:17 PM »
I was thinking bolts or welding, but I'm not totally clear on how you are putting the front together. I dont think mortar would create a good bond between pieces of steel. Picture an oreo where the steel is the cookie and the mortar is the filling. I do not think that will be strong. Casting a piece of steel entirely inside the mortar or concrete will prevent the steel from rusting. Unless the.concrete cracks a lot and water gets to the steel to do the rusting. Like the rebar in the slab.

I tried a few coats of vegetable oil baked onto the steel to protect it. Worked well on the parts not exposed to the elements. The outside face did rust a little. I was going to clean it up and either try again with more coats and more protection or use a high heat paint on the outside.

I dont know how effective wood will be at holding residual heat. I used to stack fire brick in front of the door and that worked well. Not sure what thickness you had in mind but I cant speak to how well wood will hold heat. If you are trying to start holding in heat with the oven at 600 or so, I would expect the door to at a minimum char. Usually after a bake I put some wood in the oven to really dry out. Once I put it in a little too soon. I was watching TV and could smell some smoke. The wood I had put in the oven was charred and smoldering.

Offline Pod4477

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Re: Wanting to build a coal fired style outdoor pizza oven
« Reply #222 on: June 09, 2019, 11:28:40 PM »
I was thinking bolts or welding, but I'm not totally clear on how you are putting the front together. I dont think mortar would create a good bond between pieces of steel. Picture an oreo where the steel is the cookie and the mortar is the filling. I do not think that will be strong. Casting a piece of steel entirely inside the mortar or concrete will prevent the steel from rusting. Unless the.concrete cracks a lot and water gets to the steel to do the rusting. Like the rebar in the slab.

I tried a few coats of vegetable oil baked onto the steel to protect it. Worked well on the parts not exposed to the elements. The outside face did rust a little. I was going to clean it up and either try again with more coats and more protection or use a high heat paint on the outside.

I dont know how effective wood will be at holding residual heat. I used to stack fire brick in front of the door and that worked well. Not sure what thickness you had in mind but I cant speak to how well wood will hold heat. If you are trying to start holding in heat with the oven at 600 or so, I would expect the door to at a minimum char. Usually after a bake I put some wood in the oven to really dry out. Once I put it in a little too soon. I was watching TV and could smell some smoke. The wood I had put in the oven was charred and smoldering.

Yup welding or bolts are definitely a better way.  The front steel will probably have the chimney bricks mortared to it.  Still I think I could weld a piece of steel to the other steel.  I've never done welding, but I could buy a machine, some goggles, and learn.  That would be the strongest way for sure.  Thank you for that idea!

Oil is a really good idea and I should probably oil the part the door will rest against!  I also wonder if I need heat stop for the chimney area.  My thought is to use it right next to the vent, but not along the sides of the landing where it will be cooler.

Ya I've been wondering.  https://www.flickr.com/photos/climbhipa/albums/72157613634415857/page1 has the type of door that I was thinking of, but firebricks are a good idea.  Good idea about putting wood in the oven to dry. haha that must have been annoying!  Reminds me of the story of someone's wood door lighting on fire  :-D
« Last Edit: June 10, 2019, 09:41:33 AM by Pod4477 »

Offline Pod4477

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Re: Wanting to build a coal fired style outdoor pizza oven
« Reply #223 on: June 10, 2019, 07:18:11 PM »
I bought some self drilling SS screws and a SS flat bar to screw into the angle iron.  It should work out well!  I also bought bricks for the chimney.  I am finding it tough to get screws in the steel.  I drilled a pilot hole through the stainless steel flat and angle iron, but #8 screws are too small and #10 screws are too big.  #9 is pretty close, but not perfect. 
« Last Edit: June 10, 2019, 11:26:27 PM by Pod4477 »

Offline foreplease

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Re: Wanting to build a coal fired style outdoor pizza oven
« Reply #224 on: June 10, 2019, 11:49:12 PM »
I bought some self drilling SS screws and a SS flat bar to screw into the angle iron.  It should work out well!  I also bought bricks for the chimney.  I am finding it tough to get screws in the steel.  I drilled a pilot hole through the stainless steel flat and angle iron, but #8 screws are too small and #10 screws are too big.  #9 is pretty close, but not perfect.
Can you go all the way through with bolt, lock washer, and nut? Or is back side buried?
-Tony

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Offline Pod4477

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Re: Wanting to build a coal fired style outdoor pizza oven
« Reply #225 on: June 11, 2019, 11:12:20 AM »
Can you go all the way through with bolt, lock washer, and nut? Or is back side buried?

The back side is buried :(. Definitely bolts, nut, washer would be the best way.  My guess is that the wider screw's threads are no match for the stainless steel and these bars are just too thick.  What about thread locking fluid?  I didn't want anything that would heat up though.  The piece of SS will have mortar and bricks pushed against it, so my guess is that it will be pretty set into place without falling.  I have a piece of regular steel as a backup incase I just decide to weld it.  My other idea was to drill another set of holes, but have the SS hole as a clearance hole and the steel angle iron hole as a pilot hole.  That way the screws don't fight the SS going in.  Of course this all might be for nothing as there may be pull out with regular screws.  My only other thought is that there won't be a lot of vibration usually.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2019, 11:26:53 AM by Pod4477 »

Offline foreplease

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Re: Wanting to build a coal fired style outdoor pizza oven
« Reply #226 on: June 11, 2019, 08:43:15 PM »
That 2 hole method might be your best bet, although you can weld stainless. I think I would try the pilot hole idea in the regular steel somewhere you do not really need a screw. In other words, see how much purchase you can get with self-threading in the regular steel before drilling a bunch of larger holes in your stainless piece. Good luck with it.
-Tony

Offline Pod4477

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Re: Wanting to build a coal fired style outdoor pizza oven
« Reply #227 on: June 12, 2019, 10:28:09 AM »
That 2 hole method might be your best bet, although you can weld stainless. I think I would try the pilot hole idea in the regular steel somewhere you do not really need a screw. In other words, see how much purchase you can get with self-threading in the regular steel before drilling a bunch of larger holes in your stainless piece. Good luck with it.

Very good idea!  I'm going to try things out and maybe just weld.  Do you think I could weld stainless to plain steel using a flux core wire feeder and .30-.35 wire?  The SS is about 3/16" and the steel is ľ".  I'd maybe have to wire a 20 amp breaker and outlet though, so idk if I want to do all that.  I do wonder if the mortar and bricks up against the steel will hold it in place anyway.

Since the door would only be used without flames and really only to keep it sealed when not in use, my other idea is to just install a gasket to a wood or metal door to make up for the gap.  It seems to be what they did at the Flickr site.  Is it tough to install a gasket to steel though?
« Last Edit: June 12, 2019, 10:53:42 AM by Pod4477 »

Offline Jon in Albany

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Re: Wanting to build a coal fired style outdoor pizza oven
« Reply #228 on: June 12, 2019, 11:27:59 AM »
Can't help with any welding questions.

Depending on how you build it, I would have thought it was attached with a high temp adhesive. Similar to the gasket on the door of a wood stove. Depending on how the door is built, the adhesive might not last as long. If the gasket get moved a lot, the adhesive will fail...at least that is what I was told about my door. The gap on mine isn't very big so I have added a gasket yet so I have no direct experience with putting a gasket on a door. A wood stove/fireplace store should be able to help you out.

Offline Pod4477

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Re: Wanting to build a coal fired style outdoor pizza oven
« Reply #229 on: June 12, 2019, 04:45:08 PM »
Can't help with any welding questions.

Depending on how you build it, I would have thought it was attached with a high temp adhesive. Similar to the gasket on the door of a wood stove. Depending on how the door is built, the adhesive might not last as long. If the gasket get moved a lot, the adhesive will fail...at least that is what I was told about my door. The gap on mine isn't very big so I have added a gasket yet so I have no direct experience with putting a gasket on a door. A wood stove/fireplace store should be able to help you out.

Thank you.  I think I may hire a welder or just stuff the steel in there between the fireplace/landing walls and oven walls.  I can try to do the screws again tonight too.  Since it's not structural, I feel that it may be okay being encased in mortar, and then the bricks up against that mortar.  I guess the worst that could happen would be it shifting or falling and needing to be repaired.  You are still right about mortar not being a strong bond, but I'm thinking the mortar and bricks may hold it in place.  If not I can always cut it and use a gasket on my door.  I may want to use a gasket, so thank you for that help too.  High temp adhesive sounds good and I found a 800F rated bbq gasket on Amazon.

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Offline barryvabeach

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Re: Wanting to build a coal fired style outdoor pizza oven
« Reply #230 on: June 13, 2019, 07:02:25 AM »
Pod,  I am no expert on welding, but yes, you can use regular flux core wire to weld steel to stainless, though of course the weld will not be stainless.  If you were going to weld stainless to stainless, you can buy a flux core stainless that would make the whole assembly resistant to rust  - though it is fairly expensive. 

Offline Pod4477

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Re: Wanting to build a coal fired style outdoor pizza oven
« Reply #231 on: June 13, 2019, 11:39:17 AM »
Pod,  I am no expert on welding, but yes, you can use regular flux core wire to weld steel to stainless, though of course the weld will not be stainless.  If you were going to weld stainless to stainless, you can buy a flux core stainless that would make the whole assembly resistant to rust  - though it is fairly expensive.
Thank you!  That was a very good explanation that I was looking for.  I'm a bit frustrated because the oven is far away from my 30 amp outlet and the unit is a 20 amp unit.  I could buy or rent a gas welder though, but might be the same price to hire someone.  I'm wondering if being encased in mortar will hold the steel anyway.

Offline barryvabeach

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Re: Wanting to build a coal fired style outdoor pizza oven
« Reply #232 on: June 13, 2019, 08:34:11 PM »
Pod, renting  a gas welder would not help unless you got a special mix of shielding gas for stainless steel ( usually a trimix, not the standard argon co mix used for steel ) , as well as a spool of stainless wire.  It would probably be cheaper to just find someone to weld it if you want the weld to be stainless , or go with the flux core  which is around $30  https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B00G5GHA7E/?tag=pmak-20   
Here is an article which talks about the shielding gases at the end.  https://www.lincolnelectric.com/en-ca/support/welding-solutions/Pages/compact-welders.aspx?utm_referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F 

Offline Pod4477

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Re: Wanting to build a coal fired style outdoor pizza oven
« Reply #233 on: June 13, 2019, 09:59:23 PM »
Pod, renting  a gas welder would not help unless you got a special mix of shielding gas for stainless steel ( usually a trimix, not the standard argon co mix used for steel ) , as well as a spool of stainless wire.  It would probably be cheaper to just find someone to weld it if you want the weld to be stainless , or go with the flux core  which is around $30  https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B00G5GHA7E/?tag=pmak-20   
Here is an article which talks about the shielding gases at the end.  https://www.lincolnelectric.com/en-ca/support/welding-solutions/Pages/compact-welders.aspx?utm_referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F

Thank you! Yah probably just going to hire a welder, but I enjoyed reading that.  They should be coming down tomorrow or Saturday.

Offline Pod4477

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Re: Wanting to build a coal fired style outdoor pizza oven
« Reply #234 on: June 15, 2019, 05:35:45 PM »
Got it welded today from a local shop and started my first course of bricks for the chimney!

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Offline Pod4477

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Re: Wanting to build a coal fired style outdoor pizza oven
« Reply #235 on: June 18, 2019, 01:15:52 AM »
So I finished the sides of the chimney/vent.  I'm trying to figure out how I proceed with the angle iron over the top.  The bricks won't fill up the entire space between two of the angle irons, so I wonder if I should use a lot of mortar or how I should fill the gap between the bricks and angle iron.  I've tried different brick orientations and sideways seems to be the only way the bricks will fit in the angle irons, so that the angle irons fit in the area.  I plan on using a simple vent mortared onto the angle irons. 

I also need to decide on using either a blanket or just perlcrete/concrete on the oven for insulation/mass.  My idea is to probably build a covering over the oven, so I can cook in the rain, and because building a facade may be difficult due to uneven ground right next to the oven.

Offline Pod4477

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Re: Wanting to build a coal fired style outdoor pizza oven
« Reply #236 on: June 18, 2019, 11:27:42 AM »
Sorry I passed out and forgot to post pictures. These are my ideas for the chimney vent area. I just wonder about such a large gap between the sides of the brick and the angle irons.

Offline Jon in Albany

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Re: Wanting to build a coal fired style outdoor pizza oven
« Reply #237 on: June 18, 2019, 11:37:47 AM »
Not totally clear on what you want to do. In terms of spacing, would you be able to continue the pattern of the columns? In other words, set up the angles so that there is one long brick and one short brick. I dont believe the angles need to be evenly spaced.

Offline foreplease

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Re: Wanting to build a coal fired style outdoor pizza oven
« Reply #238 on: June 18, 2019, 12:32:24 PM »
Not totally clear on what you want to do. In terms of spacing, would you be able to continue the pattern of the columns? In other words, set up the angles so that there is one long brick and one short brick. I dont believe the angles need to be evenly spaced.
First, it is easier to picture with photos  ;D . Prior to those above I was lost. I was thinking he should cut bricks to fit but overlooked that the angle iron is not yet fixed in place. I like your idea and would add he can avoid cutting brick if he spaces one set of angle irons for the brick width and the next for brick length. That is, the rows of bricks would be perpendicular. Perhaps you already had that in mind.


Without a comprehensive plan before starting itís amazing that this is going to come out well and functional. And I mean that neither as criticism or praise.
-Tony

Offline Jon in Albany

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Re: Wanting to build a coal fired style outdoor pizza oven
« Reply #239 on: June 18, 2019, 01:11:33 PM »


First, it is easier to picture with photos  ;D . Prior to those above I was lost. I was thinking he should cut bricks to fit but overlooked that the angle iron is not yet fixed in place. I like your idea and would add he can avoid cutting brick if he spaces one set of angle irons for the brick width and the next for brick length. That is, the rows of bricks would be perpendicular. Perhaps you already had that in mind.


Without a comprehensive plan before starting itís amazing that this is going to come out well and functional. And I mean that neither as criticism or praise.

Yes. That is what I meant. Once that first course is down, he would be above the angle sections and could do what ever he wants. And I'm not sure if I am correct, but the way I envision it, the full length bricks stop over the door to create the opening for the chimney and the perpendicular bricks would be the front face.

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