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Author Topic: Pizza with last minute balling ?  (Read 475 times)

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Offline fckace

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Pizza with last minute balling ?
« on: April 20, 2019, 03:08:38 AM »
Hello guys,
I'd like to know if there is a protocol/recipe for the pizza (cooked in the WFO) balled at last minute before roll it with the rolling pin and baked it. Because I see a lot of pizza maker do this, taking a little mass of their big dough to make the pizza at last moment.
What should be the temperature of the oven in this case ?
Thanks.

Offline PizzAmateur

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Re: Pizza with last minute balling ?
« Reply #1 on: April 20, 2019, 03:19:12 AM »
Hello guys,
I'd like to know if there is a protocol/recipe for the pizza (cooked in the WFO) balled at last minute before roll it with the rolling pin and baked it. Because I see a lot of pizza maker do this, taking a little mass of their big dough to make the pizza at last moment.
What should be the temperature of the oven in this case ?
Thanks.

Where do you live?  I ask, because none of the chain pizza places in my area do that and NONE of the very few independent shops in North Alabama ball immediately before cooking.

Now, opening up a "ball" of dough immediately prior to cooking is quite different.

Oops..., just noticed that you DID qualify this for WFO's.

Sorry... my bad.  ::)

Offline fckace

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Re: Pizza with last minute balling ?
« Reply #2 on: April 20, 2019, 03:55:51 AM »
Where do you live?  I ask, because none of the chain pizza places in my area do that and NONE of the very few independent shops in North Alabama ball immediately before cooking.

Now, opening up a "ball" of dough immediately prior to cooking is quite different.

Oops..., just noticed that you DID qualify this for WFO's.

Sorry... my bad.  ::)

Haha, no problem, I'm in France and I see that almost everywhere (specially in the truck shop), the pizza maker takes little mass from the big dough and makes somes balls and roll it just after.
I noticed when eating them that the dough is very salty, I don't know if it is linked.

Offline PizzAmateur

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Re: Pizza with last minute balling ?
« Reply #3 on: April 20, 2019, 04:03:42 AM »
Haha, no problem, I'm in France and I see that almost everywhere (specially in the truck shop), the pizza maker takes little mass from the big dough and makes somes balls and roll it just after.
I noticed when eating them that the dough is very salty, I don't know if it is linked.

Ah... pulling from a bulk ferment.  That is not really balling as I use the term.

Sorry about Notre Dame.  I was there in June or July 1976. 

Tragic loss to the world.

Offline fckace

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Re: Pizza with last minute balling ?
« Reply #4 on: April 20, 2019, 04:12:38 AM »
Oh okay, maybe "balling" is not the term that I should use. I thought the meaning was for the final shape of the pizza dough. (250g balls usually)

Yes it's really sad. Hope that it will be rebuilt the same as it used to be, and not with adding some disgusting modernism parts like we see so often.

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Offline PizzAmateur

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Re: Pizza with last minute balling ?
« Reply #5 on: April 20, 2019, 05:45:19 AM »
Oh okay, maybe "balling" is not the term that I should use. I thought the meaning was for the final shape of the pizza dough. (250g balls usually)

Yes it's really sad. Hope that it will be rebuilt the same as it used to be, and not with adding some disgusting modernism parts like we see so often.

Don't quote me on ANY thing related to pizza!  I am really an amateur.  (smile)

It is actually likely that I did not understand your post and those who are much more knowledgeable than I will step in soon and admonish me for my ignorance.

In any case, keep moving forward and best wishes for your success!

PA

Offline foreplease

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Re: Pizza with last minute balling ?
« Reply #6 on: April 20, 2019, 10:12:23 AM »
Hello guys,
I'd like to know if there is a protocol/recipe for the pizza (cooked in the WFO) balled at last minute before roll it with the rolling pin and baked it. Because I see a lot of pizza maker do this, taking a little mass of their big dough to make the pizza at last moment.
What should be the temperature of the oven in this case ?
Thanks.
Check out this thread. There was a lot of experimentation leading to a dough formulation and dough management procedure that will probably help you a lot. In the first post there is a link to a video of Vincent pulling dough from a bulk piece and effortlessly stretching. As you will see, a rolling pin was not needed and would not have been at all useful. The dough practically shapes itself.


https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=36842.0
-Tony

Offline fckace

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Re: Pizza with last minute balling ?
« Reply #7 on: April 20, 2019, 10:43:11 AM »
Check out this thread. There was a lot of experimentation leading to a dough formulation and dough management procedure that will probably help you a lot. In the first post there is a link to a video of Vincent pulling dough from a bulk piece and effortlessly stretching. As you will see, a rolling pin was not needed and would not have been at all useful. The dough practically shapes itself.


https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=36842.0

Thanks, I'm surprised of the final result, very nice. I'll search on this topic to found the best protocol then.  :chef:

Offline The Dough Doctor

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Re: Pizza with last minute balling ?
« Reply #8 on: April 20, 2019, 11:13:36 AM »
The method described here, cutting a piece of dough from the large fermented dough mass, and immediately flouring and sheeting it (NOT ROUNDING  IT) is the same process commonly used by pizzerias back in the late 40's and through the 50's. It died out in the 60's when we began looking for a more effective way to manage the dough as this method had two major flaws. 1) It gave pizzas that were somewhat inconsistent as the dough continued to ferment and change throughout the day. 2) It limited the number of pizzas which could be sold without fear of having to toss out masses of unused dough. This procedure was ultimately replaced by a variation of the cold fermented dough ball method of dough management we see widely used in pizzerias today. It was also this process that resulted in high protein flour becoming known as "pizza flour" as you needed all that protein content to give the dough the necessary fermentation tolerance to hold up to all those hours of fermentation at room temperature. A typical dough formula from those bygone years will look something like this:
Flour: All Trumps 100%
Salt: 2.5%
Yeast: (compressed, as we didn't have IDY at that time) 0.5%
Sugar: 2%
Water: 55%

The dough was started approximately 6 to 8-hours prior to use and used throughout the day/evening or until it was gone. Unused dough was tossed out.
A piece of dough was grabbed and cut from the bulk dough piece, it was floured and sheeted to thickness and trimmed to size. Trim scrap might have been saved but was usually just tossed out. The dough sheet was commonly docked, then dressed and baked in a deck oven at 500 to 525F.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

Offline fckace

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Re: Pizza with last minute balling ?
« Reply #9 on: April 20, 2019, 12:08:18 PM »
The method described here, cutting a piece of dough from the large fermented dough mass, and immediately flouring and sheeting it (NOT ROUNDING  IT) is the same process commonly used by pizzerias back in the late 40's and through the 50's. It died out in the 60's when we began looking for a more effective way to manage the dough as this method had two major flaws. 1) It gave pizzas that were somewhat inconsistent as the dough continued to ferment and change throughout the day. 2) It limited the number of pizzas which could be sold without fear of having to toss out masses of unused dough. This procedure was ultimately replaced by a variation of the cold fermented dough ball method of dough management we see widely used in pizzerias today. It was also this process that resulted in high protein flour becoming known as "pizza flour" as you needed all that protein content to give the dough the necessary fermentation tolerance to hold up to all those hours of fermentation at room temperature. A typical dough formula from those bygone years will look something like this:
Flour: All Trumps 100%
Salt: 2.5%
Yeast: (compressed, as we didn't have IDY at that time) 0.5%
Sugar: 2%
Water: 55%

The dough was started approximately 6 to 8-hours prior to use and used throughout the day/evening or until it was gone. Unused dough was tossed out.
A piece of dough was grabbed and cut from the bulk dough piece, it was floured and sheeted to thickness and trimmed to size. Trim scrap might have been saved but was usually just tossed out. The dough sheet was commonly docked, then dressed and baked in a deck oven at 500 to 525F.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

Amazing explanation, thanks Dough doctor. And thanks for the recipe.
When I wasn't making the pizza myself, I used to go at a truck pizza maker, and if he needs to do 5 pizzas, he takes 5 little piece of dough from the mass and shape them roughly into balls before sheeting it. Maybe thats help to do a circular size with the rolling pin. I noticed also that his pizzas were very salty, that's perheaps because he didn't tossed the dough from the previous session in order to use for the next day, and salt help to conserve the dough ?

Anyway, for myself (non commercial), I think I could use this method because unlike for the commercial use, it has two main advantages :
- I won't need to buy dough box to keep the dough ball
- I won't need to ball them
- easier to store on the fridge considering that it is a small fridge
Because, I'll know how many pizza I will make at a specific time, so I can anticipate the weight of dough to use, like this I won't toss it.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2019, 12:10:01 PM by fckace »

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Offline The Dough Doctor

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Re: Pizza with last minute balling ?
« Reply #10 on: April 20, 2019, 02:58:14 PM »
I think what you were seeing was the lose ends of the piece of dough being tucked into the body of the dough as it was being prepared for sheeting, this is a far stretch from actual rounding/balling of the dough.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

Offline Yael

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Re: Pizza with last minute balling ?
« Reply #11 on: April 21, 2019, 01:26:10 AM »
Haha, no problem, I'm in France and I see that almost everywhere (specially in the truck shop), the pizza maker takes little mass from the big dough and makes somes balls and roll it just after.
I noticed when eating them that the dough is very salty, I don't know if it is linked.

fckace,
It's just because most of "camion pizza" in France don't know how to make pizza... The fact that you say it's salty just confirms it. I remember one like this, well the pizza was actually good, the guy took from the bulk and was making a kind of proofing on thin pizza pans, and baking with it. But this is totally unnecessary and time-killer!
Same for you at home, you just buy small plastic tupperware containers, I'm sure it's even less than 1€, and you ball your dough. Besides, doing so you'll get round shape pizza instead of... I don't know what  :P
« Last Edit: April 21, 2019, 01:28:03 AM by Yael »
“Learn the rules like a pro so you can break them like an artist” - Pablo Picasso

Offline fckace

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Re: Pizza with last minute balling ?
« Reply #12 on: April 21, 2019, 04:00:31 AM »
fckace,
It's just because most of "camion pizza" in France don't know how to make pizza... The fact that you say it's salty just confirms it. I remember one like this, well the pizza was actually good, the guy took from the bulk and was making a kind of proofing on thin pizza pans, and baking with it. But this is totally unnecessary and time-killer!
Same for you at home, you just buy small plastic tupperware containers, I'm sure it's even less than 1€, and you ball your dough. Besides, doing so you'll get round shape pizza instead of... I don't know what  :P


Haha, I agree. Since I'm making pizza I carefully watch how the pizza makers do theirs. In fact I have a box to store all the dough balls but it's kind of a mess to get them out when they are stick together without destroying them. I have bought a "riflard" tool to get them out like, but still haven't the right technique. Do you use flour or semolina rimanincita to take and strech the dough to the circular form ?

Offline Minolta Rokkor

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Re: Pizza with last minute balling ?
« Reply #13 on: April 21, 2019, 08:02:24 AM »
Agree with Yael, DO NOT do this, unless you want a nearly impossible to work with dough.
Pizza is about balance, nothing more nothing less

Offline Yael

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Re: Pizza with last minute balling ?
« Reply #14 on: April 21, 2019, 08:21:15 AM »

[...]Do you use flour or semolina rimanincita to take and strech the dough to the circular form ?

Semolina is very expensive in China (3€/kg) so I usually don't use it. So flour. Or maybe a mix 50/50 of both... It depends. Why this question? I mean, no connection with the previous topic, right?
« Last Edit: April 21, 2019, 08:27:50 AM by Yael »
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Offline fckace

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Re: Pizza with last minute balling ?
« Reply #15 on: April 21, 2019, 09:01:05 AM »
Semolina is very expensive in China (3€/kg) so I usually don't use it. So flour. Or maybe a mix 50/50 of both... It depends. Why this question? I mean, no connection with the previous topic, right?


No connection, just to be sure what to use to get off one dough ball out of the box so that it doesn't stick.  ;)
Thanks.

Offline Minolta Rokkor

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Re: Pizza with last minute balling ?
« Reply #16 on: April 21, 2019, 09:29:30 AM »

No connection, just to be sure what to use to get off one dough ball out of the box so that it doesn't stick.  ;)
Thanks.
corn meal
Pizza is about balance, nothing more nothing less

Offline Yael

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Re: Pizza with last minute balling ?
« Reply #17 on: April 21, 2019, 07:42:06 PM »
corn meal

I also use corn meal because it's very cheap, but it seems it burns more in the oven than semolina  :-X
“Learn the rules like a pro so you can break them like an artist” - Pablo Picasso

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